millwright

Bruce Grant's Encyclopedia of Rawhide and Leather Braiding would be where to find answers and instructions.

That'll work, keep at it.

I've seen lots of ropes on the internet made with limed hides. Bet it would be fine. One well respected raider has said he likes younger cow hides for reatas more than old ones. I don't have any personal experience though. Bret

This will show how to do a turnback for the loop http://myriam.dakotabraiding.com/Tutorials/Leash/Leash.html You'll have 6 strings instead of 4 but this will give you the idea. You may want to cover the turnback with a cowboy knot/button, or start a 3 strand braid in the middle of your strings, for whatever length you want the loop, then splice both ends of your 3 strand braid together to start your 6 strand body. I'd say a 4 bight turk's head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wsCzcjHkss&list=UU2oqLZqnLHtteDW4Xk9NtzQ&index=3 would be the easiest button to tie over your termal knot at the end. If you don't have it, you should get Bruce Grant's Encyclopedia. Lots of good stuff in there. Hope this helps, Bret.

I don't know of anywhere to get calf rawhide, dyed or otherwise. I called Springfield Leather a while back asking about calf rawhide and they said they never have any. They had some horse and kangaroo rawhide that's good for button string, so I've heard, but no calf. I've been lucky enough to get a few calf hides lately to dry out myself. Maybe you could find someone around that would let you get their calf hide if/when they lose one. Bret

Here's the Alan Bell post I was talking about http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=21702&hl=circle+rounds+waste#entry140079 There's a ton of info in this forum if you use the search and just filter through it all. Bret

Alan Bell has replied to a post about this question before. Start searching about "cutting whole hides" or "cutting circles" or something similar, and you should run across it. He says if you cut circles, you get more consistent string width, which means less splitting, which means better strings. As you pull your string/soga through the splitter you stretch/tear some fibers in the rawhide which weakens it to some extent. You will have more waste cutting circles but a better quality string. You will have longer string with less waste if you cut from a whole hide. Here's how I've cut circles before. Take a 4" strip out right down the middle of the back then you have two halves. You can use this for twisted cores. Cut your biggest circle from the middle of your halves and this will be your best and consistent string. Front shoulder will be thinner and the hip will be thick. When you split your string/soga, you don't want to take off anymore than what you have to to get to the thinnest natural part of the hide. In other words, don't split your string any thinner than the natural thinnest part of the hide so that you don't weaken your string. I've stolen everything I know from others that have shared. I'm no expert. I've found few definitive answers. Hope this helps, Bret. Oh, I tried to slip hair with KAW's method and it didn't work out too well. I'm glad it worked for you. I've heard it's one of the best ways to produce nice hides. Do everything like KAW and you will be one top shelf rawhide maker/braider.

I'll bet that'll do it for me! That's great, thanks Brian. This isn't a 4 bight but it should be relatively the same, right? I'm going to try it and see if it works. Bret

That's exactly what I've got Brian. The first pass/interweave is o1/u1 (that's what I think it's called), you can make another pass, 2nd pass/interweave o2/u2,(I think you can) and that's what I'm trying to do. Maybe you can't do another interweave, I'm not sure but I thought you could. I saw a guy building up the foundation on a quirt lanyard to get the size knot he wanted, and tied a 4 bight over 3 pineapple, so I'm assuming it's the same knot I'm trying but I'm at the over 2 part. I'm at exactly the spot in the next to the last pic, the one before he has the knot tight and dressed, and would like to make another pass....I'm stuck. I haven't had/made time to look for it anymore. Thanks for the download, Bret.

Thanks Brian but I couldn't get it to download. I get the "user not found" create a "free account", give us your credit card number, and that makes me nervous. It's possible I'm not doing something right too. I'm not good with computers. I think Bruce Grant tells how to do 2 passes for his 6 bight heel knot, so it should be basically the same idea/pattern with the 4 bight. I'll look into that and tie a 6 bight and try the 2nd pass on that 6b to get familiar with the pattern. I have Tom Hall's intro to turk's head that I need to look through too. I'm being lazy I guess, asking for someone to show/tell me how instead of looking/digging it up myself. Thank you for your help Brian. Appreciate it, Bret.

Where could I find the o/u pattern for the 2nd pass pineapple interweave for a 4 bight turk's head? I can do the first pass ok, following the left string going up and the right going down, splitting pairs, but the 2nd pass (I've never done), I'm not following how the pattern works. Here's what I'm thinking, the last u3 of the first interweave puts you to the left, along side, the first interweave starting point. Now, from there you go o2 following the string to the left which is the first interweave, right? If that's right, here's where I'm confused when it comes to what x to cross at the top. It seems when I go across to start down, I could have the string that was on the left going up, either on the left or right of my string when I'm going down...depending on what x I cross. What string on the right do I follow going down? Now you're confused too. Basically, how do you do the 2nd pass. I'm sure this isn't explained very well, but maybe someone can make a little something out of it and point me in the right direction. Thanks, Bret.

Here's what we've used for a tie down. The cord that goes over the poll is 1/4"-3/16", something like that, the rope body is 3/8". The adjustment is tied like a regular rope halter ties, and the connecting part where the snap is can be substituted with 3 links of chain where the two outside links have the rope go through, and the middle link is where the snap connects. I can get you a pic of one with the chain if you'd like. I think the chain looks better than this store bought piece in the pic. I'm planning on braiding something like this sometime, but one thing to consider is the noseband part needs to be fairly smooth so it doesn't rub a raw spot on their nose. We put electrical tape over the rope to smooth it up, but I have to come up with a better solution than electrical tape for that. Maybe a flat braid across the nose and transition to round like TwinOaks suggested. Want anymore details, let me know. Bret

Hope Knothead posted what you needed 25b. That's a dang good video Knothead. Thanks!

Sorry I'm not following you very well. You're wanting to know how wide to cut strings, or how many bights/parts to make a knot to cover a particular size foundation? You make your foundation the size you want the finished knot to be, then cover it with button string. I start tying a 4 bight and then interweave until it's all covered, or raise it to a 6 bight and if they're still gaps start an interweave until all the gaps are filled. If it still don't come out right, too bunched up or not enough gap for another interweave, I cut it off and use different size string. The string in one of the earlier pics is a cut off..didn't fit, I didn't like it. I still may not be getting you any closer to an answer. I'm not sure what you're asking. What kind of knot are you tying? How long? application? pics? We'll keep talking about it until something's figured out. I'll tell you again, I'm new to all this, not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I would like to know/understand more and this is a good way to do it. Bret

Thinner string, usually from a calf, that covers the foundation of the knot. Here's a regular body string against some calf/button string. It's more flexible because it's thinner so it looks better, wraps/lays better around buttons, and doesn't cause your knot to build up bigger/larger. I don't know much, so if I'm off here somehow, somebody step in and add to it. Bret

If you use "button string" then your finished knot shouldn't be any bigger than your foundation. Calf hide and parts of horse hide, from what I've found, are so thin they don't "build up" the knot any bigger than what they're covering. You might try making your foundation with regular weight string, not button string, and sand it with sand paper to shape and size it like you want before covering with the button string. I'm no expert by a long shot, just my thoughts. Bret

Page 231 in Grant's book Encyclopedia of Rawhide and Leather Braiding. That's about all I know about that, Bret.

Nice work Leatherpownder. Looks really good. What do you use to build up under the long knots? Leather? Tape?

I've heard the first book that Enrique Capone wrote has lots of examples of this.

Oh curlyjo, money can't touch that hide . It was quite an ordeal, but I'm proud to have it done. I dry ashed a calf last week that turned out like rawhide. I stretched/fleshed a nice little herford hide today and scraped a horse that I had. It turned out nice but I won't be scraping a horse again. It was way too much like work. I have two calf hides, I'm going to lime one and dry ash the other. I have circles cut and cased from the hide in the pics and I'll finally get to cut some strings tomorrow, I hope. I also hope to have some gear made before too long to show as well. I appreciate the help/input/advice. Bret

You were right Buck. It wasn't too tight. I think I was prematurely worried. I went ahead and scraped the hide today and it turned out fine. I have RAWHIDE! I think it looks pretty good. Thanks for all the help guys. Hope to be posting some pics of some tack before long. Reins and headstall is first on the list. I'm trying copy/paste from facebook with some pics. This is what I was worried about. Next pic is outcome after the scraping.

I have white patches/blotches showing up where it has already dried. Is it possible/easy to stretch the green hide too tight, then as it dries and contracts the fibers in the rawhide break? I've pulled hides 2,3 and 4 fairly tight in the hoop. Dang it!! Still not cutting any strings. This is crazy, it's just drying out a hide, how cotton pickin hard can it be! I haven't figured out how to resize pics so I can't get any on here. Who's got an idea?

Wow, that is a very nice looking hide. Did you fold it any particular way before putting it in the bag? try to spread it out in the bag? move it around some from time to time? hold your breath when you checked it? lol So you stretched it and fleshed it the best you could with a knife then sanded it after it dried? It looks good. I'll have to try that. As your hides dry and they darken up, do parts of them lighten up (turn white) again during the drying process? I like your hide Buck. Keep up the good work, Bret.

Hide number 3....down the tube. I thought I had this one figured out but it turned really cold here in Oklahoma and it froze. I didn't know you shouldn't let a green hide freeze when it's stretched out. Looks like some of it dried like it's supposed to, nice clear amber color, and the rest was white like it was stretched too much and broke the fibers. I have my 4th stretched and out of the weather, so I'm feeling good about this. Maybe I'll finally be cutting some strings in a week or so. I fleshed the last two with the grinder and wire wheel method and it works really well. I hope to try with a fleshing beam and knife sometime, but for now, I'm tickled to death to have this one fleshed and drying. Going to use the dry ash to get the hair off. Going to try the lime sometime too. Got a call about a yearling colt someone had to put down and got that hide this weekend. I'll get it cleaned up and stretched in the next day or two. Does the dry ash method work for horse hide too? wooh, this has been quite an ordeal, think it'll work this time....I'm sure hoping. Bret

I don't know what to do with the lime water but I'm glad you got yourself a horse hide. Do you treat the horse hide just like you would a cow hide? I'm still trying to let my cow hide get good and dry. I've heard horse hide is thinner than cow hide and good for buttons. Where did you come up with the hide, and what are your plans for it? Good luck with it all, Bret.