Bottom Stitches on Cowboy 4500

[PAMuzzle]

So I'm still practicing and I tried sewing 2 pieces of 7 oz leather back to back with grain side out on both pieces.

The first picture is the top thread and the second is the bottom thread.  #277 in both with #25 needle.

How do they look to you folks that are familiar with this machine? 

The top and bottom empty holes were done without thread so you can see the holes.

The lower right diagonal stitching on bottom stitch piece was pressed with a glass burnisher.

Edited April 2, 2022 by PAMuzzle

[Wizcrafts]

Are you using a 7x3 round point needle instead of a 794 leather point?

[AndreasB]

The bottom stitch on my Cobra Class 4 looks very similar. I bought it used, so I don't know if it is supposed to look different when everything is adjusted the right way.

I found out, that I do end up with a nicer bottom stitch, when I add a stitch groove before sewing. It seems like the stitch groove guides the thread and allows it to sit more evenly. But the top still looks much better than the bottom.

[RockyAussie]

Looks to me not too far off the mark but I suspect that you are using a TRI point needle which is fine if you want to do real heavy work but to me does not have the better closed up look stitch you get with an LR leather point shape needle. I would almost be tempted to try a 24 needle with that tip with that thread in that temper leather. A softer leather will give you a better look as it pulls in better when forming the knot but sometimes the tightness of the top and bottom tensions will give you a better look and sometimes a lighter tension on both will give you a better look. Normally this will depend on what sort of leather firmness you are stitching. Practice make perfect

[PAMuzzle]

Thanks for the replies.  
 

Wiz…I am using the needle that was set up in it when I bought it new.  New package of 794 was included.  I will try a new needle.  
Looked ok when I sewed thru flesh hidden by the roughness I guess.

Edited April 3, 2022 by PAMuzzle

[Constabulary]

Yes holes are too wide for the chosen thread, I would go at least 1 needle size down - maybe even 2 but depends on the thread and if you use bottom thread 1 size smaller or not. The thread charts you find are rather a rule of thumb, they work under certain conditions but since mentioned thread size is calculated by weight per 1000 meters and not by its actual thickness so you have some variables. So use these charts as hint but not as a fix rule. Cotton thread, Polyester thread and Nylon thread may have a different actual thickness at the same thread size.

Regarding needle -  believe it or not some years ago I ordered 3 or4 different size of System 328 needle from a brand I do not remember but it was not Schmetz or Groz Beckert. Two where the exact same size but with different needle size stamped on the needle. Not kidding! Maybe it was a production error - maybe not. You know what I mean?

That said - you always have certain variables when you choose the right thread and the right needle for a certain project. And of course the type of leather you want to sew matters too.

This may be useful  for choosing the right needle tip.

https://www.schmetz.com/en/industrial-needles/needle-compass/cutting-points/

My favorite leather tip is S-point cause I like straight seem stitches better than slanted.

My 2 cents

 

[PAMuzzle]

14 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Are you using a 7x3 round point needle instead of a 794 leather point?

Wiz, no.  It was a 794 DIA needle.  But it looked like it may have a sharp nick on it.  I replaced it with a new 794 #25 DIA, 277 top and bottom... New trial pics below.  6 SPI.  Maybe drop down to a 24 or 23 needle?

Edited April 3, 2022 by PAMuzzle

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, PAMuzzle said:

I replaced it with a new 794 #25 DIA, 277 top and bottom

Try using a Schmetz S point needle instead. It has an inline slicing point that gives a much nicer appearance on the top and bottom.

 

1 hour ago, PAMuzzle said:

Maybe drop down to a 24 or 23 needle?

NO! That may cause more problems than it solves. One likely problem will be the leather lifting with the ascending needle as the knots grab near the bottom and refuse to come up in the holes. The other is shredding the top thread from excessive friction from the tight holes.

S point needles should resolve the stitch appearance problem.

[PAMuzzle]

Ok thanks Wiz.  I will order some tomorrow…wish they were available locally.