Sinabroks Chisels?

[NDphung]

2 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Replies came in here too late... I already ordered so as not to miss out the 10% sale that finished Friday.  And I probably did order too much with 1, 2, 4, and 8 prong chisels.  But that also got me free shipping (from Japan to Canada) which if I had to pay for it would have been almost half the cost of a chisel.

Obviously I lack the experience of some of you guys but I would have thought the 1-prong would be useful in curves and unlike an awl (which is diamond shaped) this 1-prong would make an identical stitching hole to the others.

Lonsdale still carries Sinabroks but they are out of stock of the ones I wanted, and they don't offer free shipping either.  I haven't looked at Kevin Lee or KS Blade or the others you mentioned.

I am not sure but I thought Sinabroks was South Korean (they may have move to Japan?).  I don't have that much experience but I am cheap so did a few research before buying my Irons/Chisels. Lonsdale used to have free shipping within Canada for 150$CAN and above they may have changed with the inflation. They seem to have the cheapest price on Tokonole 120ml.

 

[Hardrada]

I have chisels from KS Blade, the company the Sinabroks guy used to work at before starting his own (and copying the design, basically). They're excellent. Pricey, yes; but worth every nickel.

[MtlBiker]

1 hour ago, Hardrada said:

I have chisels from KS Blade, the company the Sinabroks guy used to work at before starting his own (and copying the design, basically). They're excellent. Pricey, yes; but worth every nickel.

I just checked the KS Blade website... I guess I didn't do enough research before ordering the Sinabroks, but I didn't know about them.  And while there is a dealer in Canada for Sinabroks (out of stock though on what I wanted) there doesn't seem to be a source for KS Blade other than through the US or direct.  But anyway, I saw only one review on the KS Blade site, and it said the the product comes unsharpened and that unless you sharpen and polish the blades, the chisel will have a hard time going through leather and be hard to pull out.  Was that your experience?  For the price, I would expect these to be ready to go out of the box.  I sure hope the Sinabroks come ready to use.

[Hardrada]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

I saw only one review on the KS Blade site, and it said the the product comes unsharpened and that unless you sharpen and polish the blades, the chisel will have a hard time going through leather and be hard to pull out.  Was that your experience?  For the price, I would expect these to be ready to go out of the box.  I sure hope the Sinabroks come ready to use.

That's either a fluke or total merde de cheval. Mine came sharpened and fully ready to use. They're still sharp.

They have to come sharpened because the thing with the KS Blade chisels is that the user can't fix them if there's issue with them: one has to send them back to them in order to get them serviced. This is a hassle that the founder of Sinabroks perceived and ergo he designed his chisels to have removable teeth, because most of the issues you're likely to have with a chisel is a broken tooth, and it's indeed a pain not to be able to change them yourself.

Don't feel bad about your purchase. I wasn't trying to knock Sinabroks off. From what I've seen they're also top quality items, and made to last if not abused.

I do strongly recommend to protect the tips as much as possible, because they're finer than your run of the mill diamond chisel, and even though they're good quality, they can dull and they can break.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Hardrada

[mike02130]

I'm late to the party but I'll try to fill in the blanks.

I bought a pair of Sinabroks but I sold them.  I own five sets of KS irons.  I prefer them over the Sinabroks but both brands have their pros and cons.  Like the guy said above, they make your hands smell like brass.  KS have a flat shaft that tapers down to a round which makes them easier and more comfortable to grip when punching.  Sinabroks are round and want to twirl in my hands.  KS tips are slightly round allowing them to pierce the leather easier and to line them up on a stitch line.  The Sina's are square across making it more difficult to center on a line.  Some people scribe a line and then place the irons on one edge to punch.  The Sina's I had were blunt and needed sharpening.  The KS are sharper but they could still use some touching up.  The Sinas are highly polished, like a mirror.  They pull out of leather much easier than the KS irons.  The KS irons need some work to make smooth.  This is my experience.  They're both great brands, I'm sure you'll be happy with them. 

Sinas teeth are replaceable but you need to buy the teeth and a jig to install them.  KS need to be sent to South Korea for repair.

Japanese style diamond chisels (irons) are called stitching chisels.  Vergez Blanchard, Amy Roke and the like are traditional "pricking irons" (French style), meant to prick the leather followed up by an awl.  Sinabroks and the like are hybrid pricking irons usually referred to as stitching irons that work like "chisels" punching through the leather.  French and European style refer to non Japanese style.

Irons are measured from center to center of the teeth.  Chisels are measured by the space between the teeth.  Therefore, a 4mm diamond chisel is wider than a 4mm iron.  So I've heard.

A one tooth iron is just an expensive awl.  Two tooth is for curves.  Your 4 tooth will be easier to punch through thicker leather than your 8 tooth.

 

 

[AtomicLeathers]

Dont get the sinabrocks.   I mean sure if you got the money, go ahead.  I found on etsy a company called P-mak

https://etsy.me/3xXyskC

They did make a 5mm but it looks like they only make a 6mm now. I bought the 8 and 2.   Im by no means a professional but I have found a few tips when working with bigger spaced irons. 

I usually pre line up 2-3 holes with the 8 to continue my spacing, then punch. The problem is there is a hole bigger then the tips. So its not exact spacing and you can see it on your stitching.  

   Try lightly pressing the tips of the iron to make a impression in the leather first. do it all the way around. then you dont have to worry about lining up the first couple of prongs and miss out on punching more holes.  
   Second is sometimes I do 2  10oz peices together, and driving the irons through all the way,  and up the iron makes a huge hole because they are wider on the back then the little tip. So make sure you punch all the same sides together and not to flip over.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by AtomicLeathers

[MtlBiker]

I just received the Sinabroks chisels I ordered 3 weeks ago...  4mm, 1-, 2-, 4- and 8-prong.  They're certainly beautiful to look at and came in nice padded boxes.  I don't have anything here at my work to try them on so will have to wait until I get home to some leather and a poundo pad.  But my first impression (other than the great looks) is that they're really not very sharp.  I'll have to see how they work when I hit them on leather using a mallet but they're certainly not as sharp as my Craftools Pro chisels.  Maybe they're going to work just fine but I really expected them to be a lot sharper.

[battlemunky]

Mine work fine and I never touched them up even. Please let us know your thoughts after you use them.

[MtlBiker]

3 hours ago, battlemunky said:

Mine work fine and I never touched them up even. Please let us know your thoughts after you use them.

I tried the Sinobloks tonight and I found that they need a surprisingly harder hit with my mallet (than the Craftools Pro) to go through the leather.  That could be because they're really not sharp or maybe that's just the way it is supposed to be.  I was using two layers of 6oz veg tan that I'd dyed (which seems to make it harder).  And then with 0.8 Tiger thread and a 001 John James harness needle, I found I really had to wiggle the first needle in the hole in order to slightly open it up so the other needle could get through.  And then I also had to use a pair of pliers to pull the needle through on many/most of the holes.  Probably just going to take more practice on my part but I really do like the resulting stitch line.  The hole these irons make is certainly smaller and neater than the one made by the Craftools.

(When I say I wiggled the first needle, I mean that I first take a needle from the right and put it in the hole, wiggle it a bit along the same axis as the hole, and remove the needle.  This is done just to locate the hole and make it easier for the needle from the left to pass through.  Then in the same hole, I take my first right needle and pull it through.  I'm a beginner and I'm not sure that I'm doing it right or even that I'm explaining it correctly.)

[dans79]

13 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

And then with 0.8 Tiger thread and a 001 John James harness needle, I found I really had to wiggle the first needle in the hole in order to slightly open it up so the other needle could get through.  And then I also had to use a pair of pliers to pull the needle through on many/most of the holes. 

Your using a larger needle than you need to, and that's making your life a little harder than it needs to be. 0.8mm will work fine with a #3 needle, and with a little finagling you can even get it to work with a #4.

with regards to the Sinabroks, they are wider at the tip than other french style irons if memory serves. French irons should by nature require a little more force as they are flat at the tip while diamonds form a point.