Start-up machines on a small business budget?

[Vermontleatherworks]

First post Here....

Hello my NEW friends! I am in the fire/rescue service and retiring in less than 2 months - I am currently retooling my shop for leatherwork. As of now I have procured most of the hand tools I need but I still have not decided how to approach the machinery that will help me in bulk production. A strange situation at this post is that I am entirely hesitant to say exactly what I am planning on marketing but I have a feeling I may be overwhelmed with work once I start up in earnest. I am afraid to mention the product for fear others will take the idea and run with it and since I have only hand stitched a few items in my entire life I would never catch up to those with more experience who might take my idea and run with it. Once i have a business established and built a customer base I will be more than happy to post about the adventures and products while starting up. 

Question: Over the past months I have studied sewing machines and am about to pull the trigger and purchase a new Techsew 2750 pro. The products I hope to be sewing would range in thickness from fire department helmet shields to all things of less thickness - right down to lacey racey lingerie materials. For the record I will not be building standard fire department products and will not be competing in that market.... and I am sure I caught your attention with the "lacey racey" language! So my ultimate concern at this point is should I buy this new machine? It occurs to me that I would also like to purchase a Skiving machine and I just dont have the funds to purchase both new. 

My past careers include yacht building and high end furniture making which taught me the value of machines that work well. When I hear of the Techsew 2750 stitching thick leather "like it was butter" makes me think I can purchase new with a dealers warranty that will perform in an enjoyable way, but then I have very little money for the skiving machine. The most important thing to me is that the machines work flawlessly. I don't give a hoot what they look like? I have woodworking machines in my shop with original tags sales tags on them from the '50's and I would not trade that old iron for anything new. 

Please would you all chime in on your thoughts as to how I might think about this? Does anybody know of machines that work perfectly that I could purchase together? I live in Vermont, USA. 

I am so excited about this project and since all my friends at the fire house are tired of hearing about my new start up ideas I am very happy to have found a new audience to share and learn from! 

Jay 

If it comes through the attached photo is an example of my furniture work...

[MtlBiker]

So, what is it you plan to make? 

Okay, you don't want to say.  Are you sure though that a cylinder arm machine would be the right choice for your first machine?  Yes, that 2750 comes with an add-on flatbed attachment but it's not something that you'd want to install and remove every day and certainly not many times a day.  Have you considered a good quality used flatbed machine to start?  Maybe something like the Consew 206RB-5 or Juki equivalent?

In order for us to be able to help you choose you really would have to give us more information than you have.  Such as how thick leather to you plan to work with?  How many layers?  What size thread do you plan to use?  On the 2750 I really wouldn't use anything less than v92 thread and that's way overkill for your "racy lacy lingerie" materials.  A good domestic machine might be a better choice for such things.

Without giving away your top secret plans, you really need to tell us more so that we can help you.

 

[Vermontleatherworks]

Thank you MtlBiker for your quick response. I am considering the cylinder arm because there is a bag component and sewing inside tunnels is likely going to be happening. I think the newest (aluminum) table for the 2750 slides on/off quickly for the rest of the flatbed work?

I just dont know enough about thread thicknesses to say what I am looking at yet. The leather thicknesses will range from quite thin and pliable to much thicker stampable work. It likely goes without say that the fine material work will be done by a home machine that I already have, but my point was that I would like to buy a machine that straight stitches soft fine leather all the way up to fire department helmet shield type leather which I believe is 10-12oz? I am thinking a lift foot of 1/2" is all that I will require? Sorry to post while ignorant but this crowd seems fairly safe for that.... although I expect some laughter an mocking here  : )  I have to start somewhere right?

j

[Northmount]

@Vermontleatherworks  Have you looked at the sewing machine forum?  In particular start with this thread.

[MtlBiker]

1 hour ago, Vermontleatherworks said:

Thank you MtlBiker for your quick response. I am considering the cylinder arm because there is a bag component and sewing inside tunnels is likely going to be happening. I think the newest (aluminum) table for the 2750 slides on/off quickly for the rest of the flatbed work?

I just dont know enough about thread thicknesses to say what I am looking at yet. The leather thicknesses will range from quite thin and pliable to much thicker stampable work. It likely goes without say that the fine material work will be done by a home machine that I already have, but my point was that I would like to buy a machine that straight stitches soft fine leather all the way up to fire department helmet shield type leather which I believe is 10-12oz? I am thinking a lift foot of 1/2" is all that I will require? Sorry to post while ignorant but this crowd seems fairly safe for that.... although I expect some laughter an mocking here  : )  I have to start somewhere right?

j

I think that if you plan on sewing 10-12 oz leather you should be looking at something considerably stronger (like a 441 class machine) than the 2750.  I have one, and while it can sew 10-12 oz leather, it's very rare that you'd only have one thickness to go through.  Two or three layers would really start to be challenging.  And you're probably going to need at least v277 thread.  Unlikely that the 2750 would be enough for your needs.

Good luck!
 

[chuck123wapati]

soooo my guess is sexy leather fireman suits for the stripper trade lol. Just kidding i wish you all the luck in the world on your new quest.

[chrisash]

If I was in your shoes, I would break down on a spreadsheet what items you intend to make and the numbers of each you aim to produce along with specific requirements for each

Wallets - 2-3 oz veg tan- + 3-5mm veg tan outers-15 month

Most start with simple items and then progress to more complicated items, and whilst you may have a god starter customer base with your fire fighter teams, you will need to spend on marketing to others after a short time and everyone finds sales hard to get until established a name

and so on that way you can concentrate your start-up machines  requirements (flat bed/ Cylinder) and clearance under feet/ thread and needle size and grow the machines as you make more profit

Link you may find handy for thread v Needle https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

Edited May 23, 2022 by chrisash

[kgg]

On 5/23/2022 at 6:21 AM, Vermontleatherworks said:

Over the past months I have studied sewing machines and am about to pull the trigger and purchase a new Techsew 2750 pro.

I would suggest:

i) Know how thick is the thickest item as measured over any seam or additional layer? This will determine whether you you need an upholstery class, class 341 or a class 441 machine. Upholstery and class 341will sew 3/8" while a class 441 will sew 7/8". There is also the option of going with one armed bandits, the un-motorized manual machines like the Tippman Boss, Cowboy Outlaw, Weaver Cub that can do 3/4" in V415 threads.

ii) Knowing what thread sizes you plan on using. Remember to get a machine rated to not only accept a certain size thread but be able to sew that size thread in both the needle and in the bobbin in max thickness it is rated for. There are some clones that say they can sew xxx size but in reality it is a size down or in thinner material or just for the the top thread.

iii) Know your budget?

iv) Figure out what machine will be best to do 90 percent of the work right out of the box, flatbed, cylinder bed, patcher, etc. If 90 percent can be best done with a flatbed buy a new Brand name machine like a Juki and either buy a clone or used machine for the other 10 percent.

v) Buy Brand name so when you want too sell it you get the highest resale value possible and it will be easier to sell.

vi) Remember no one machine will sew everything.

On 5/23/2022 at 6:21 AM, Vermontleatherworks said:

The products I hope to be sewing would range in thickness from fire department helmet shields to all things of less thickness - right down to lacey racey lingerie materials.

Fire Department Sheilds probably will probably require either a Juki LU-1508 (min.) or class 441 machine while your "dainty" items would require something more like a Juki 1181N or domestic machine. That is to far a spectrum range for any one machine.

kgg

 

[Vermontleatherworks]

Thanks for the replies. I am reading them all carefully. 

I am not interested in a manual stitching (non motorized) machine because I want to have both hands available for all the other aspects of moving material, alignment and such. I need reverse mode to backstitch at start and ending runs of stitches. I think the super slow servo motor which is geared down will help me be more accurate in stitching. I don't think I will ever require anything over 1/2" material stitching. Likely 3/8" or less? Also, these projects are not heavy duty working items. Rather, they are short term use with low strength requirements for the thread. I don't expect to use super heavy threads at all. I'm guessing a medium thread on the chart you referenced would be fine. 

My original post asks about the Techsew 2750 Pro... does it sound appropriate? There are so many other machines out there, can anybody tell me what used Consew or other machine would be similar but less expensive?

As I had mentioned I would also like to buy a skiving machine. Are they available used very often? What should I look for?

It is looking like the finer materials will be stitched on my regular machine so I don't think i need to factor that in. I was wondering if the Techsew could do that but I am hearing that I should not expect that to work out. 

J

 

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Vermontleatherworks said:

My original post asks about the Techsew 2750 Pro

The Techsew 2750 is a clone of the older Juki LS -341 and there are many similar clones offered by a lot of different dealers. Since this is not going to be a cheap investment check out a local dealer. Have a discussion with them and take along a sample of the thickest you are planning on sewing along with the thread size you are planning on using so you can test drive a few machines. That way you will know the machine will do what you need.

Is one clone better then another in the same class probably little difference. The price can vary greatly but it's the pre delivery prep and product support that will set one clone apart from another.

kgg

[chrisash]

As a example, for many bags, wallets etc in both chrome and veg tan I tend to use V46,69, or 92 thread which is strong enough, mostly v69, I also go against most of the posters on here and match the colour to the material and not ther

contrast method

[RockyAussie]

I am having a suspicion that the Techsew 2600 may be getting over looked here and I believe it would save you some $ as well. I am in Australia and about the only stuff that goes into the states from me is some sewing machine needle plates and stuff. If that means you can show me in a pm what it is you want to make I would be happy to advise what machine type I think would be best. I make a broad range of products with a broad range of different sewing machines. Little things like the cylinder arm diameter (51mm on the 2600 and 76 on the 27500 and the distance the needle sits from the end are all important things to know before you buy. Do you need a full open table or just the standard U shape table?

The size of the hole in the feed dog can make a fairly big difference, on thin soft stuff a small hole will give you less trouble and the 2750 is not all that small. Ignore the needle plate in the first picture that is just one I am working on for a special job.

This video shows off the cowboy CB246 in action (at around 1.5 minutes in) which is pretty much the same machine as the Techsew 2600.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by RockyAussie

[Northmount]

A Techsew 2700 or 2750 maximum as stated above is 3/8" thickness.  You'll find it difficult to sew 3 layers of 8 oz leather.  Hard going, presser feet leaves marks, difficult to adjust the presser foot pressure, so you wouldn't want to do it very often.  Just did an axe sheath a few days ago.  3 layers 8 oz leather including the welt.  Machine wasn't happy!  1/4" is much easier going.

Maximum thread size 210 on the top and 138 on the bobbin.

Regardless of what machine you buy, every time you change thicknesses and thread sizes, you will have to spend some time adjusting the thread tension.  As mentioned, no one machine does everything.