Finding FRID Protection Sheets

[AzShooter]

Anyone know where the FRID protection sheets for wallets can be found?

I use to get them from Tandy but can't find them on their websites anymore.

[Tugadude]

This works according to what I’ve heard…

https://www.amazon.com/Blocking-RF-Reduce-Protection-Conductive-Radiation/dp/B07N2YLK3J

[AzShooter]

Thanks for the information.  I ordered one.

 

[fredk]

I use plumbers aluminium heat proof tape. Comes in a big roll 2'' wide. Costs about £5 to £8 per roll. I've multi-tested it and it works perfectly

[AzShooter]

Interesting!

 

[Gulrok]

I know you're probably not asking - but RFID blocking material is a scam. Its marketing that plays into people's mind about theft.

RFID is supposed to block a 'sniffing' crime. AKA - someone can 'sniff' using a RFID reader and obtain sensitive information about said card. However there isn't enough information that someone can gain by 'sniffing' your cards. So much so, they can't pinpoint a single crime to RFID sniffers. 







https://losspreventionmedia.com/are-rfid-blocking-wallets-necessary-to-prevent-credit-card-theft/

"So, experts point out, even if someone were to successfully use a surreptitious reader, which would need to be within inches to sniff your payment information out of thin air, they would need to crack the bank’s complex algorithm to generate a new one-time code to complete another contactless payment. Contactless payment options like Apple Pay and Android Pay use near-field communication (NFC), a version of RFID, and since they require further authentication from the user, are even more secure, say analysts."

https://www.walletopia.info/educate/rfid-is-a-scam/

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/all-i-want-christmas-certainly-isnt-rfid-credit-card-sleeve-grimes/

 

[Matt S]

  On 6/14/2022 at 9:24 PM, Gulrok said:

I know you're probably not asking - but RFID blocking material is a scam. Its marketing that plays into people's mind about theft.

RFID is supposed to block a 'sniffing' crime. AKA - someone can 'sniff' using a RFID reader and obtain sensitive information about said card. However there isn't enough information that someone can gain by 'sniffing' your cards. So much so, they can't pinpoint a single crime to RFID sniffers. 







https://losspreventionmedia.com/are-rfid-blocking-wallets-necessary-to-prevent-credit-card-theft/

"So, experts point out, even if someone were to successfully use a surreptitious reader, which would need to be within inches to sniff your payment information out of thin air, they would need to crack the bank’s complex algorithm to generate a new one-time code to complete another contactless payment. Contactless payment options like Apple Pay and Android Pay use near-field communication (NFC), a version of RFID, and since they require further authentication from the user, are even more secure, say analysts."

https://www.walletopia.info/educate/rfid-is-a-scam/

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/all-i-want-christmas-certainly-isnt-rfid-credit-card-sleeve-grimes/

 

Expand  

There are many reasons to use RFID blocking linings. One of the most common in my neck of the woods is avoiding "card clash" where you have multiple NFC-enabled cards in one wallet. Put your most commonly used ne (debit card for instance) in an unshielded outer pocket and your multiple others inside the protective cocoon of a Faraday cage and things work much smoother.

[Gulrok]

  On 6/14/2022 at 9:36 PM, Matt S said:

There are many reasons to use RFID blocking linings. One of the most common in my neck of the woods is avoiding "card clash" where you have multiple NFC-enabled cards in one wallet. Put your most commonly used ne (debit card for instance) in an unshielded outer pocket and your multiple others inside the protective cocoon of a Faraday cage and things work much smoother.

Expand  

Now that - is a pretty interesting idea. So yeah I could see that. To be able to just tap your wallet against the terminal. That is truly the first good argument I've heard for RFID blocking.
 

[fredk]

  On 6/14/2022 at 9:24 PM, Gulrok said:

I know you're probably not asking - but RFID blocking material is a scam. Its marketing that plays into people's mind about theft.

RFID is supposed to block a 'sniffing' crime. AKA - someone can 'sniff' using a RFID reader and obtain sensitive information about said card. However there isn't enough information that someone can gain by 'sniffing' your cards. So much so, they can't pinpoint a single crime to RFID sniffers. 

Expand  

Not really a scam using blocking material

Christmas before last N.I. police stopped some thieves using a store type card reader to get payments into their 'account'

The thieves were doing 'sales' of about £25 a time - the card limit on contactless was £30 - and were simply going by womens' handbags in very busy & crowded shops. They passed the card reader over near the handbag and the reader took the money from the card. Police would not give full details, for obvious reasons but advised women to use a RFID card holder

[Gulrok]

  On 6/14/2022 at 9:52 PM, fredk said:

Not really a scam using blocking material

Christmas before last N.I. police stopped some thieves using a store type card reader to get payments into their 'account'

The thieves were doing 'sales' of about £25 a time - the card limit on contactless was £30 - and were simply going by womens' handbags in very busy & crowded shops. They passed the card reader over near the handbag and the reader took the money from the card. Police would not give full details, for obvious reasons but advised women to use a RFID card holder

Expand  

Here is the thing, a scam like that would require people to have a merchant account with valid information. It has to go through card processing and only then to a bank account. The person would have to be close enough to someone's pockets/bag to even activate it. Like very close. So close you have to about an inch on the reader.

It is no different of a scam than someone taking your debit card at a restaurant, writing down the numbers and entering it on the computer later on.

Fortunately, these scams don't go well because you as the customer are protected as it is fraud and you can merely chargeback, but secondly if a merchant sees numerous chargebacks, it freezes the account and refunds all the transactions. 

RFID is a scam because the risks and likelihood of it happening is nearly 0. Even if someone does manage to stick their terminal into your bag, maneuver the card within an inch and process a payment. You're protected through your banking and government regulations. 

EDIT: Forgot to mention - the space needs to be clear, so if you have more than 1 card in that 1 inch bubble 'dead space' it doesn't read. So general objects obstruct it. Clothing, bags, wallet material. 

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/rfid-credit-cards-should-you-worry-about-protection/

Bankrate says

 

RFID credit cards allow you to pay with a tap, rather than inserting or swiping your card. Special RFID-blocking wallets and sleeves, despite their popularity, generally aren’t necessary for security because the technology requires an obstruction-free environment. In other words, most materials—such as a regular wallet, a purse, or a pocket—will prevent the RFID technology from working, making it tough for a scammer to tap your card without your knowledge.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Gulrok

[fredk]

  On 6/14/2022 at 10:11 PM, Gulrok said:

Here is the thing, a scam like that would require people to have a merchant account with valid information. It has to go through card processing and only then to a bank account. The person would have to be close enough to someone's pockets/bag to even activate it. Like very close. So close you have to about an inch on the reader.

It is no different of a scam than someone taking your debit card at a restaurant, writing down the numbers and entering it on the computer later on.

Fortunately, these scams don't go well because you as the customer are protected as it is fraud and you can merely chargeback, but secondly if a merchant sees numerous chargebacks, it freezes the account and refunds all the transactions. 

RFID is a scam because the risks and likelihood of it happening is nearly 0. Even if someone does manage to stick their terminal into your bag, maneuver the card within an inch and process a payment. You're protected through your banking and government regulations. 

EDIT: Forgot to mention - the space needs to be clear, so if you have more than 1 card in that 1 inch bubble 'dead space' it doesn't read. So general objects obstruct it. Clothing, bags, wallet material. 

Expand  

Our cards and equipment must be very different. At one shop I frequent, their card reader is well behind a spit screen. I can wave my card at it  from 6 inches away and it will read my card - I have measured the distance. At one place today my card was no closer than the width of my hand - about 4.5 inches - away from the shop reader and the payment was taken

Also when testing the aluminium tape I mentioned above, I made several small card wallets of various thickness of leather, all them to hold more than one card. I used cloth, plastic and thin leather linings as well as no lining. The only time the card readers would not read any [I used several different payments cards] of my cards was when there was that aluminium tape between the card and the reader

The risks are not 0 - they are low but the thieves in Belfast got several thousands of £££ from hundreds of shoppers. And unless the shopper really notices they don't contact their bank over £25 - they just think they've spent it somewhere. Slightly different - but I do know of several ladies who had debit cards cloned and small amounts taken from their accounts regularly, each lady believed they'd spent that money. It wasn't until the police contacted them about the cloned cards did they find out the truth. Even I had a card cloned and my wife thought I'd spent the money and I thought she had spent it. It was all small odd amounts that looked like small purchases. It was only when our bank fraud office contacted us we found out

A PS. Here you can get a card reader which will take a payment from your card and puts it straight into a paypal account, so that simplifies the route the stolen money gets to the thieves

Edited June 14, 2022 by fredk

[Northmount]

RFID tags are used for shipping, receiving, stock control, received goods, storage yard locations, etc.  Tags are read directly off the transport without workers having to unload and sort through the shipment.  On construction projects, the gate person reads the cards and directs the driver to the assigned lay-down / storage area.  When it is time to withdraw the items for construction, the driver drives down the lane-way, identifies the items by RFID and loads them up to deliver them to the prescribed location.  It includes all types of building and construction materials.

Likely, their RFID reader is more powerful than what is used at checkouts, but it is all the same principle of reading and recording data.

On a side note, I have been told if you put 2 RFID cards together in your wallet, the reader gets confused.  Whether this is true or not, I can't verify it.  Someone should do a test and report back.

 

[Gulrok]

  On 6/14/2022 at 11:23 PM, fredk said:

Our cards and equipment must be very different. At one shop I frequent, their card reader is well behind a spit screen. I can wave my card at it  from 6 inches away and it will read my card - I have measured the distance. At one place today my card was no closer than the width of my hand - about 4.5 inches - away from the shop reader and the payment was taken

Also when testing the aluminium tape I mentioned above, I made several small card wallets of various thickness of leather, all them to hold more than one card. I used cloth, plastic and thin leather linings as well as no lining. The only time the card readers would not read any [I used several different payments cards] of my cards was when there was that aluminium tape between the card and the reader

The risks are not 0 - they are low but the thieves in Belfast got several thousands of £££ from hundreds of shoppers. And unless the shopper really notices they don't contact their bank over £25 - they just think they've spent it somewhere. Slightly different - but I do know of several ladies who had debit cards cloned and small amounts taken from their accounts regularly, each lady believed they'd spent that money. It wasn't until the police contacted them about the cloned cards did they find out the truth. Even I had a card cloned and my wife thought I'd spent the money and I thought she had spent it. It was all small odd amounts that looked like small purchases. It was only when our bank fraud office contacted us we found out

A PS. Here you can get a card reader which will take a payment from your card and puts it straight into a paypal account, so that simplifies the route the stolen money gets to the thieves

Expand  

I'll play with some payment terminals that we have which are RFID enabled. 

With the paypal account - you have to enter tons of information. Its very traceable. You don't just enter an email address and you get a free payment terminal. 

[Tugadude]

Can I recommend a separate topic be made about the pros and cons of using RFID protection in wallets?  This thread is about how to find RFID protection sheets.  

Whether it is a real threat or not, calling it a scam is not helpful.  That implies you are taking advantage of people.  No, you are just giving them something which may or may not be helpful.  There is nothing nefarious about it.  Sure, arguments, good ones, can be made as to whether they are necessary.  But providing the protection isn't harmful in itself.  If you think it doesn't work for its intended purpose, hey, it's still a wallet, right?

And some will want RFID protection for peace of mind.  Some baseball players wear special socks when they pitch.  If it makes them feel better, what's the harm?

Sometimes discussions can get divisive just based on the words we use.  Calling RFID protection in wallets a scam is an example.  It will immediately cause offense to those who believe in it.  And that's not conducive to having a polite discussion.

Just my $.02

[Gulrok]

  On 6/16/2022 at 12:14 PM, Tugadude said:

Can I recommend a separate topic be made about the pros and cons of using RFID protection in wallets?  This thread is about how to find RFID protection sheets.  

Whether it is a real threat or not, calling it a scam is not helpful.  That implies you are taking advantage of people.  No, you are just giving them something which may or may not be helpful.  There is nothing nefarious about it.  Sure, arguments, good ones, can be made as to whether they are necessary.  But providing the protection isn't harmful in itself.  If you think it doesn't work for its intended purpose, hey, it's still a wallet, right?

And some will want RFID protection for peace of mind.  Some baseball players wear special socks when they pitch.  If it makes them feel better, what's the harm?

Sometimes discussions can get divisive just based on the words we use.  Calling RFID protection in wallets a scam is an example.  It will immediately cause offense to those who believe in it.  And that's not conducive to having a polite discussion.

Just my $.02

Expand  

A scam is "A false representation of a matter of fact—whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of what should have been disclosed—that deceives and is intended to deceive another so that the individual will act upon it to her or his legal injury."

RFID blocking is marketed as protection against something that isn't a threat - is a scam. Marketers are misleading customers into believing that they are at risk for a thing which they are not. They take action to buy a product with this knowledge.


Its the same idea as someone selling you snake bite insurance in Alaska with a big campaign that you never know when a snake will strike. Alaska doesn't have snakes. 


I sorry that calling it a scam offended you. 

[fredk]

But it ain't a 'scam' if the customer specifies or asks for it.

The last wallet I made for a guy he asked for the RFID protection and wanted me to show that it worked. I asked him if he thought he needed it and he was quite definite that he wanted it and said that he reckoned his cards had been skimmed and he'd lost about £5000 and didn't want it happening again.

[Gulrok]

  On 6/16/2022 at 2:32 PM, fredk said:

But it ain't a 'scam' if the customer specifies or asks for it.

The last wallet I made for a guy he asked for the RFID protection and wanted me to show that it worked. I asked him if he thought he needed it and he was quite definite that he wanted it and said that he reckoned his cards had been skimmed and he'd lost about £5000 and didn't want it happening again.

Expand  

If you go to an insurance agent in Alaska and ask for snake insurance and they knowingly sell it to you "for peace of mind" despite there being no snakes in Alaska .. is that insurance agent scamming you? 

The technology is a 'scam' in itself because it has been falsely marketed. 

Here's the FBI's website on card skimming https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/skimming#Overview 

Likely this guy lost his money due to skimming but not because of RFID Skimming.But likely due to skimming where his card is inserted into a device - like an ATM or gas pump. Not through RFID skimming which RFID blockers are advertised to block against. 

Do I Need to Worry About RFID Protection?

While it’s always a good idea to safeguard your wallet, the danger of contactless credit card thefts is overblown. Here’s why:

• • • • • Criminals with a reader need to be very close to scan your card.
        • The theft is a time consuming hit-or-miss for criminals. Their victim might not even own a contactless card.
        • The RFID chip only transmits the card number.Additional information needed for online transactions, such as the expiration date or security code, can’t be scanned.
        • RFID cards now use encrypted one-time codes for each purchase.
          - https://www.cyberghostvpn.com/privacyhub/rfid-blocking/
           

[Doc Reaper]

RFID Protection? With normal logic wouldn’t a piece of aluminum foil sandwiched between leather work??? Just saying it’s like a thinner aluminum wallet

[fredk]

  On 6/16/2022 at 3:27 PM, Doc Reaper said:

RFID Protection? With normal logic wouldn’t a piece of aluminum foil sandwiched between leather work??? Just saying it’s like a thinner aluminum wallet

Expand  

Look further up the page; I posted a photo of plumbers aluminum heat proof tape. That's what I use. I stick that [its self sticky] on the inside of the wallet, on the outer piece, then cover it with very thin lining leather so it can't be seen, just for beauty looks

[Tugadude]

Thanks Gulrock for keeping the discussion going rather than bowing out and creating your own topic.

Please don't lecture me on what a scam is.  I'm well aware of what constitutes a scam.

If someone here puts foil in a wallet they are not perpetrating a scam.  

Period.

I'm moving on now.  

Gulrock, if this is as big a passion for you as it seems to be, start a new topic.

[Gulrok]

  On 6/16/2022 at 4:47 PM, Tugadude said:

Thanks Gulrock for keeping the discussion going rather than bowing out and creating your own topic.

Please don't lecture me on what a scam is.  I'm well aware of what constitutes a scam.

If someone here puts foil in a wallet they are not perpetrating a scam.  

Period.

I'm moving on now.  

Gulrock, if this is as big a passion for you as it seems to be, start a new topic.

Expand  

You're welcome to move on, you're entitled to a different opinion about anything, especially what is a scam and what is not a scam. I am allowed to reply to comments in this thread and can chose to without starting a new topic at your request.

The act of putting foil in your wallet is not perpetrating a scam. The act of putting foil in your wallet, marketing/advertising is as RFID blocking and ensuring it is "the only way to keep your information safe", is in fact a scam - by definition. Hence, what I said earlier about the RFID market of products being a scam.

Now move along.
 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Gulrok