Pfaff 145 H3 Squeaking Handwheel

[ethereal]

Hey there! 
 

I am looking into purchasing a Pfaff 145 H3 from a local seller and have ran into an issue with the machine. When manually turning the wheel in either direction, we hear a squeaking noise. 
 

The machine seems to work fine and produces beautiful stitches so it is very odd.
 

A friend of the seller who is more knowledgable about machines believes it may be an issue with a bearing, as the noise is much less obvious when sewing, and also went away a little after oiling the areas near the handwwheel. 
 

Any ideas on resolving this issue?

[kgg]

53 minutes ago, ethereal said:

When manually turning the wheel in either direction, we hear a squeaking noise.

I would remove the top cover and see if there is a issue in that area. With that cover removed you will also be able to see if the machine was regularly maintained with oil and grease. If it looks dry or parts are worn you have to wonder how well it was cared for. If parts need to be replaced add that cost to your purchase price. If you are in Canada parts are going to be expensive. If you have any doubts about the machine pass on purchasing it there are always plenty of used machines.

A photo of the machine would help in determining possible other problem areas to look for and give also give an indication as how hard it was used and abused. If it is an ex factory / industrial / commercial setting machine I would pass unless it was dirt cheap. What are they asking for the machine and where are you located?

kgg

[ethereal]

5 hours ago, kgg said:

I would remove the top cover and see if there is a issue in that area. With that cover removed you will also be able to see if the machine was regularly maintained with oil and grease. If it looks dry or parts are worn you have to wonder how well it was cared for. If parts need to be replaced add that cost to your purchase price. If you are in Canada parts are going to be expensive. If you have any doubts about the machine pass on purchasing it there are always plenty of used machines.

A photo of the machine would help in determining possible other problem areas to look for and give also give an indication as how hard it was used and abused. If it is an ex factory / industrial / commercial setting machine I would pass unless it was dirt cheap. What are they asking for the machine and where are you located?

kgg

Im in the Usa, and the asking price is much cheaper than any used industrial walking foot I could find in my area at $500. It comes with a table (which is a bit rundown), a servo motor, a speed reducer, a few different feet, and various threads for me to test around with.
 

I called numerous dealers, repairs shops, friends, searched around online and wveryone i spoke to said they either didnt have any available, or only sold new ones. My two next options from this machine would be a new consew 206rb with a servo and table at $1600, or a new sailrite package at $1100-1300. Im also looking to get an overlocker, so saving the cost difference would really help me out with that.
 

The machine was just recently oiled a few days ago, and that helped clear up some squeaking. Its gone through two owners now. The original owner made pillows with it (im not sure if they made them commercially or just for hobby). The 2nd owner (who i am buying it off) rarely used the machine, as they did most of their sewing by hand and never got around to figuring out the proper workings of the machine. I was told they used it more around 10 times through its 2 year lifetime with them. Though, only had it oiled once or twice in the 2-year span they had it - I believe this is what has been causing squeaking. 

Lifting the machine up, there was a bunch of gunk sewing oil built up around and about, but i figure i could remove the majority of it fairly easily. Besides cleaning this, the thread stand and rest peg need replacing, but thats only a 20-$30 fix. Ive attached the picutres i have available below. 
 

Are there any videos or guides around on how to take off the top to look inside? This would be my and the owners first time trying to do this so we unfortunately have no clue.

Thank you for the help kgg!

[Constabulary]

I would remove the V-belt on the machine pulley and try again. Still squeaking? If not maybe then its the motor brake or the V-belt. You know how the motor brake works?

[ethereal]

1 minute ago, Constabulary said:

I would remove the V-belt on the machine pulley and try again. Still squeaking? If not maybe then its the motor brake or the V-belt. You know how the motor brake works?

Removing the v belt makes it pretty much silent when turning the handwheel, however, we were told this shouldnt be a good way of cancelling out an inner bearing being the issue, as there is no load on the machine with the belt off it. I do not know how the motor brake works 

[trash treasure]

If you got that machine for $500, complete with a servo motor AND a speed reducer, you got a REAL good deal!

I'd check the belt alignments, to make sure they're all running straight. A belt running on a pulley at a sideways angle can cause the noise you describe, as will a belt running too loose.  And make sure you've oiled everything in the machine powertrain - Both above and below the bed. The manual should show the oiling points.

[kgg]

6 hours ago, ethereal said:

Are there any videos or guides around on how to take off the top to look inside? This would be my and the owners first time trying to do this so we unfortunately have no clue.

There are two covers. 1) at the front a flat plate that covers the housing for the all the drive mechanisms driving the needle which is held in place by two screws removing that plate allows for inspection and oiling. 2) the flat plate on the top of the machine next to the hand wheel allows for inspection and oiling / greasing of the drive bevel gears which is held in place by one screw.

A couple of links:

Manual: www.manualslib.com/manual/505004/Pfaff-145.html?page=20#manual

General instruction video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuzoN-I6ydI

A restoration video may help with redoing the table top: www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMerpCgK1po

5 hours ago, ethereal said:

Removing the v belt makes it pretty much silent when turning the handwheel, however, we were told this shouldnt be a good way of cancelling out an inner bearing being the issue, as there is no load on the machine with the belt off it.

Looking at the second photo I noticed the belts which appear to be made for other purposes then sewing machines. One has a tooth type profile made so the teeth can engage with the teeth of a gear to give better grip. The squeak could be coming from them as they don't appear to be seating properly in the pully's as their profiles are different then that of the pulley. This may cause a squeal as the belt rubs against the sides of the "V" pulley.  Another possible cause is the belt tensions particularly the one going to the sewing machine needs to have a little slack and appears to be bar tight in the photo. A to0 tight of a tension on the pulleys will cause eventually the bearing to wear in the motor / reducer or the sewing machine.

I would try to locate the noise by removing:

1) the belt to the sewing machine , remove the top cover by the handwheel and oil the bearing where the shaft goes through the casting to that the handwheel. That bearing maybe dry.

2) with the belt still on the servo motor and the belt to the sewing machine removed run the motor and see if there is any squeal from the reducer pulley bearing

3) with no belts attached to the servo motor run the motor to see if there is any squeal from the motor.

4) replace the belts with new proper belts and adjust the tensions as needed

The price for the machine if it is a simple fix would be a good price but if the sewing machine needs a new bearing or other parts they are going to be expensive to replace, if the bearing is gone in the reducer it is going to expensive to replace (new ~$200) and if it is the servo motor pulley bearing gone it will also be expensive (new motor ~$200) while the belt replacements are fairly cheap ($$?? as it depends on the lengths).

Also what are you planning on sewing as this may all be mute point as it may not be the best machine for your needs.

Lets know how it works out.

kgg

 

[ethereal]

3 hours ago, kgg said:

There are two covers. 1) at the front a flat plate that covers the housing for the all the drive mechanisms driving the needle which is held in place by two screws removing that plate allows for inspection and oiling. 2) the flat plate on the top of the machine next to the hand wheel allows for inspection and oiling / greasing of the drive bevel gears which is held in place by one screw.

A couple of links:

Manual: www.manualslib.com/manual/505004/Pfaff-145.html?page=20#manual

General instruction video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuzoN-I6ydI

A restoration video may help with redoing the table top: www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMerpCgK1po

Looking at the second photo I noticed the belts which appear to be made for other purposes then sewing machines. One has a tooth type profile made so the teeth can engage with the teeth of a gear to give better grip. The squeak could be coming from them as they don't appear to be seating properly in the pully's as their profiles are different then that of the pulley. This may cause a squeal as the belt rubs against the sides of the "V" pulley.  Another possible cause is the belt tensions particularly the one going to the sewing machine needs to have a little slack and appears to be bar tight in the photo. A to0 tight of a tension on the pulleys will cause eventually the bearing to wear in the motor / reducer or the sewing machine.

I would try to locate the noise by removing:

1) the belt to the sewing machine , remove the top cover by the handwheel and oil the bearing where the shaft goes through the casting to that the handwheel. That bearing maybe dry.

2) with the belt still on the servo motor and the belt to the sewing machine removed run the motor and see if there is any squeal from the reducer pulley bearing

3) with no belts attached to the servo motor run the motor to see if there is any squeal from the motor.

4) replace the belts with new proper belts and adjust the tensions as needed

The price for the machine if it is a simple fix would be a good price but if the sewing machine needs a new bearing or other parts they are going to be expensive to replace, if the bearing is gone in the reducer it is going to expensive to replace (new ~$200) and if it is the servo motor pulley bearing gone it will also be expensive (new motor ~$200) while the belt replacements are fairly cheap ($$?? as it depends on the lengths).

Also what are you planning on sewing as this may all be mute point as it may not be the best machine for your needs.

Lets know how it works out.

kgg

 

Ok, i will try and have the seller do all of that in that order, and see if anything changes. If this doesnt work, I think I will save myself the headache of buying new parts and waiting for the service man, and just get a new machine instead.

Ive really been eying the Sailrite Lsz-1 plus package at $1195, as its portable and is said to be able to sew one to multiple layers of all the lightweight and heavyweight fabrics i will list below with no problem. I would either get this package, the upgraded Worker-B package at $1595, or the Consew 206Rb with table and motor for $1599. I have numerous tables myself and do not really need one specific to sewing, so going with the sailrite would be ideal to me if it could do everything  else I want.

Mainly, I will be sewing leather garments (goat, cow, lamb, and hopefully horse if the machine is powerful enough for multiple layers). However, I would also like to use the machine to make jeans, shirts, tees, and muslin samples of other garments if possible. Truthfully, besides leather, i am still exploring the types of fabrics I would like to use, so I would really like a somewhat universal machine that would not limit me to a set range of fabrics to work with.
 

After testing, it seems to sew beautifully on all the leather and denim I had (from one to multiple layers). The muslin sewed fine as well, however i only tested it at about 4-6 layers, nothing less.
 

I will keep yall in the know! Thanks!

 

[kgg]

28 minutes ago, ethereal said:

Ive really been eying the Sailrite Lsz-1 plus package at $1195,

The portable walking foot machines do have their place for a number of reasons but there are other considerations like you will be limited to V92 thread, the stitch length (stitches per inch) will diminish as the thickness increases and of course the resale value as compared to brand name machines like Juki. I have a LSZ-1 clone which I table mounted and setup for a single purpose in a specific location. I recommend you consider table mounting it in a standard or cutdown sewing machine table or the one that Sailrite offers as you will find it easier to feed items if the table surface is at the same height as the sewing machine bed to avoid material catching on the left corners of the base which the Sailrite comes mounted in. 

kgg

[kgg]

1 hour ago, ethereal said:

However, I would also like to use the machine to make jeans, shirts, tees, and muslin samples of other garments if possible.

To help you decide which way to go, portable walking foot or an industrial sewing machine for the items you want to sew. I would recommend you watch the video's of the Juki DU-1181N (~$1400 US w/ table and motor) and the DNU-1541S (~$1800US w/ table and motor) sewing light weight, medium weight and heavy fabrics. It really is going to come down to what you want to sew, it's thickness, the thread size you want to use and your budget.

Juki DU-1181N: www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKJuKTrjsbw&t=300s

DNU-1541S: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JES-2I7h3o&t=3s

Buy Once, Cry Once

kgg

 

 

[Doc Reaper]

5 hours ago, kgg said:

 

Some great stuff

 

I had purchased a new machine from a guy that is on here. I was getting a clicking noise from the  reducer, and it was embarrassingly easy to fix. All I had to do was replace the bearing on the reducer (fly wheel under machine with the 2 belts on it) 

I also have a patch sewer and it was squeaky after 6 weeks of purchase and I used a bright white light flashlight and found an oiling port behind the main pully on the machine. After four days of constant lubricant the squeak went away. 
A bad bearing will click and one that’s good won’t. A squeak is ungreased  metal on metal and needs to be found ASAP,  a bearing that is about to go bad will squeak especially if there is a bit more pressure than it needs. 
that head is far older than the motor running it. I’m not saying it never happens, but,  a belt really doesn’t squeak - it makes a noise like rubbing your hands together in one direction, that also tells you the pulleys aren’t aligned properly. 
if you are anywhere near central North Carolina I’d be happy to give ya a hand, most bearings can be found at an auto store (they won’t make an uncommon size bearing when there are so many common sizes out there)

aligning the pulleys and the motor isn’t hard, it’s just time consuming and kinda intimidating if you have never done it before.

I'm in Concord NC, give a direct message I’m easy to get hold of, this goes out to anyone close to my location (close is 250 miles or less) 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Doc Reaper
Too much read

[ethereal]

Do either of you have photos I can reference of items that are sewn with the various industrial thread sizes? The Juki DU 1181N seems like a more viable option than the sailrite as it goes up to 138 thread, however, for about $200 more I could get the consew 206rb and have the option of sewing on size 207 as well. I dont believe ill be sewing anything more than 138, but I think it would really help if i could visualize the different sizes on a complete garment. 

I am unfortunately on the west coast, but i really appreciate the offer Doc! 
 

When we were originally looking for solutions to the squeaking, we thought the teeth on the belt could be what was causing it, though didnt really pay much attention to it. Maybe it is worth test a belt without teeth and seeing it moves smoother. 

[dikman]

For $500 it looks like a pretty good deal to me, particularly if it's sewing ok. Not too much paint worn off the base (I've bought worse!), nice strong table legs, good servo with speed adjustment dial, decent speed reducer - if it was me I'd grab it, but then, I'm not you. As Doc said replacing a bearing in the speed reducer shouldn't be hard and by measuring the old bearing you should be able to order a replacement fairly easily - if you actually need one. As for the table you could either glue some trim around the edge or just plane the edge back a bit and paint it.

If later on you feel you need something to handle slightly heavier stuff then I would think you would be able to get your $500 back on this one?

[Wizcrafts]

6 hours ago, ethereal said:

Do either of you have photos I can reference of items that are sewn with the various industrial thread sizes?

Here is a needle and thread size chart. The various "sizes" of thread are shown with their US and Metric diameters and the corresponding proper needle sizes to use with each.

[ethereal]

The teeth on the belt was the issue. Thanks for the help everyone!

[Wizcrafts]

Regarding things sewn with various sizes of thread, this belt was stitched on my Cowboy CB4500 using #207 bonded nylon thread, top and bottom, with a #24 needle. The total thickness was about 12 ounces. This thickness allowed me to completely bury the knots. Had it been 16 ounces thick, I would have used #277 thread with a #25 needle.

[ethereal]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

Regarding things sewn with various sizes of thread, this belt was stitched on my Cowboy CB4500 using #207 bonded nylon thread, top and bottom, with a #24 needle. The total thickness was about 12 ounces. This thickness allowed me to completely bury the knots. Had it been 16 ounces thick, I would have used #277 thread with a #25 needle.

That helps a lot! Looks amazing too! Nice work.