puckers up between stitches

[Sjm1027]

I am really enjoying working with leather and noticed some really beautiful work on this web page. I made a leather box last evening and made many beginner mistakes but that was fine with me because I learned quite a bit doing it. I cut 45 degree edges, sewed the whole box and pig skin liner and added a snap. One thing I noticed was my stitching... Looks like it puckers up between stitches. Am I pulling to hard? What may be causing this? It actually made the project look bad... Usually the stitching in my eyes makes the project look really good and showcases quality.

Using a machine usually looks very uniform and clean. Can one learn to do the same thing by hand?

How much can someone sew using a machine? I know belts and wallets... usually flat things... But what about at a 45 degree like the box or in tight places, sharp corners?

Sorry for all the questions but inquiring minds want to know!

Thanks

Steve

Edited October 30, 2007 by Sjm1027

[Randy Cornelius]

I sew almost everything on my machine, I have different walking feet for different projects. I use a double foot for flat stuff like belts and saddle skirts. I have a right foot that I use for cases like cell phone cases and magazine pouches where I can sew right up to the edge of a fold. But those up and down folds on the ends I still have to sew by hand. I used to sew everything by hand until the arthritis got to my hands that really slowed me down.

When hand sewing be sure to wax your thread that is first. When you pull your threads snug them up if you see leather moving and buldging you are pulling way to hard. On thicker leather like saddle skirts you can pull it tighter but on lighter leather you want to snug it up. Hope this makes since.

Randy

[Rawhide]

Steve,

Can you post pictures of the buckling? It sounds like you have light weight leather, and are pulling stitches too tight.

Marlon

[Art]

Hi Steve,

For Box edges they make the French Box Attachment which is a needle plate/foot system that holds the edge at a 45 degree angle for sewing on the machine. It looks like this:

The only sewing I do like this is toe plugs on holsters and I do that by hand, I don't think I could pull it tight enough to pucker the leather, but then it is heavy leather at that point. I guess you have to tread lighter with lighter stuff.

Art

I am really enjoying working with leather and noticed some really beautiful work on this web page. I made a leather box last evening and made many beginner mistakes but that was fine with me because I learned quite a bit doing it. I cut 45 degree edges, sewed the whole box and pig skin liner and added a snap. One thing I noticed was my stitching... Looks like it puckers up between stitches. Am I pulling to hard? What may be causing this? It actually made the project look bad... Usually the stitching in my eyes makes the project look really good and showcases quality.

Using a machine usually looks very uniform and clean. Can one learn to do the same thing by hand?

How much can someone sew using a machine? I know belts and wallets... usually flat things... But what about at a 45 degree like the box or in tight places, sharp corners?

Sorry for all the questions but inquiring minds want to know!

Thanks

Steve

[Don101]

steve are you using one thread and two needles? and pulling boath evenly at the same time? Don

[Sjm1027]

steve are you using one thread and two needles? and pulling boath evenly at the same time? Don

Yes that's right Don. See attached picture. I am pulling tight but this is 8 oz leather with 2 oz pigskin

Steve

[blinddog]

It looks as if you might be pulling the stitches too tight judging from the appearance of the gusset pic. Two other things that come to mind: Are you gluing the joint before you sew it? I've had things "creep" on me if I didn't glue up a box joint. Also, you might find that it "puckers" less if you use a finer stitch.

Happy Trails,

Jeff

[Sjm1027]

No I didn't glue the joint first, when you say finer stitch do you mean thinner thread or closer on the holes?

Do most of you glue the joint first?

It looks as if you might be pulling the stitches too tight judging from the appearance of the gusset pic. Two other things that come to mind: Are you gluing the joint before you sew it? I've had things "creep" on me if I didn't glue up a box joint. Also, you might find that it "puckers" less if you use a finer stitch.

Happy Trails,

Jeff

[Randy Cornelius]

Also looks like the thread size is too big. Did you use a stitich grover to put a grove for the stitiches to lay in? That also could be the problem.

RC

[bruce johnson]

I agree with everything else here - big stiches and heavy thread. I am going to add one more factor. I do a fair amount of this kind of seam on some bags. If your awl is not a little thinner than maybe normal, you will get these raised puckers. When you go through the leather at an angle it is different than straight through like a strap. You will essentially be undercutting and raising the side of the hole toward the edge, and compresing and lowering the side of the hole away from the edge. If your stitching groove is not deep or thread is big, pulling the thread with enough tension to close the seam will raise and hold these "pucker" up even more. This is a whole different cat then handsewing a flat piece. Groove deeper and use a thin blade. You can either rework the readily available blades, or Bob Douglas makes some dandy blades in regular and slim styles ready to go.

[Sjm1027]

I agree with everything else here - big stiches and heavy thread. I am going to add one more factor. I do a fair amount of this kind of seam on some bags. If your awl is not a little thinner than maybe normal, you will get these raised puckers. When you go through the leather at an angle it is different than straight through like a strap. You will essentially be undercutting and raising the side of the hole toward the edge, and compresing and lowering the side of the hole away from the edge. If your stitching groove is not deep or thread is big, pulling the thread with enough tension to close the seam will raise and hold these "pucker" up even more. This is a whole different cat then handsewing a flat piece. Groove deeper and use a thin blade. You can either rework the readily available blades, or Bob Douglas makes some dandy blades in regular and slim styles ready to go.

Thanks for the critique, Looks like a have some work to do. Is there a guide for thread vs. leather thickness?

Appreciate the help

Steve

[bruce johnson]

Steve,

The thread guide is what ever looks good to you. I have seen some guys who like to use that heavy 5or 6 cord waxed handthread from TLF or Weaver on card cases. Other guys that use 138 equivalent on a big piece. I kind of hit the middle. I usually handsew the work gear with the heavy thread. If I am handsewing a smaller dressy item, I like 207. some of the little repair jobs are 138. I just beeswax it up and it holds the lock alright. I have tried some of the linens at times, found they were lumpy and not all that consistant. I also groove pretty deep.

I have a few different groovers. I like a deeper narrow groove usually. I think the TLF saddlemakers groover is OK. One thing I found it will only plow so deep. Might be alright for some things. To make mine go deeper I carefully dremeled off the sides to narrow it, and rounded off those square corners on the back. Made a huge difference. I have one of the Osborne compass groovers (actually two). The smallest points on those work alright. One I left the other point sharp for centering and grooving circles. The other I dulled, rounded, and flattened to be more like the old grooving compasses to ride an edge better. I have a third style that is a shoe groover (not a channeler). It has a wooden handle, loop type blade like the Osbornes, and adjustable fence. It will plow a pretty good furrow. You will find especially on handsewing the mitered or butted 90 degree corners that a deeper groove and catching plenty of leather in both pieces is more forgiving to do, and more durable in the long run.

I am attaching a pic of a style of bag I make that has the butted corners on the top and bottom pieces. I hand sewed them all top and bottom. I have probably done about 150 of these. That is where I figured out to groove deep, smaller thread, and sew with a thinner awl blade. These were one of my most popular award items for several years when I was activley seeking that work. These are a cosmetic bag, but the barrel racers in AZ all thought they won camcorder bags. They called to order them for gifts and friends, asking for cam corder bags. It hit me what else they thought they were.

[Sjm1027]

Thanks, makes sense... I think I will do some experiments... Very nice work, thats a beautiful bag.

Steve

Steve,

The thread guide is what ever looks good to you. I have seen some guys who like to use that heavy 5or 6 cord waxed handthread from TLF or Weaver on card cases. Other guys that use 138 equivalent on a big piece. I kind of hit the middle. I usually handsew the work gear with the heavy thread. If I am handsewing a smaller dressy item, I like 207. some of the little repair jobs are 138. I just beeswax it up and it holds the lock alright. I have tried some of the linens at times, found they were lumpy and not all that consistant. I also groove pretty deep.

I have a few different groovers. I like a deeper narrow groove usually. I think the TLF saddlemakers groover is OK. One thing I found it will only plow so deep. Might be alright for some things. To make mine go deeper I carefully dremeled off the sides to narrow it, and rounded off those square corners on the back. Made a huge difference. I have one of the Osborne compass groovers (actually two). The smallest points on those work alright. One I left the other point sharp for centering and grooving circles. The other I dulled, rounded, and flattened to be more like the old grooving compasses to ride an edge better. I have a third style that is a shoe groover (not a channeler). It has a wooden handle, loop type blade like the Osbornes, and adjustable fence. It will plow a pretty good furrow. You will find especially on handsewing the mitered or butted 90 degree corners that a deeper groove and catching plenty of leather in both pieces is more forgiving to do, and more durable in the long run.

I am attaching a pic of a style of bag I make that has the butted corners on the top and bottom pieces. I hand sewed them all top and bottom. I have probably done about 150 of these. That is where I figured out to groove deep, smaller thread, and sew with a thinner awl blade. These were one of my most popular award items for several years when I was activley seeking that work. These are a cosmetic bag, but the barrel racers in AZ all thought they won camcorder bags. They called to order them for gifts and friends, asking for cam corder bags. It hit me what else they thought they were.

[superchute]

howdy all new to the site and love it just a little shot note on the boxes my dad makes a lot of them. He cuts the grove on side and top then 45s them both and with a light glue he puts them together then he use a dremel and drills the holes around the case. He used one string and 2 needles he makes shere to all was us the top or side needle first all the way around the case or the stitch looks funny. Russ