What size punch or what tool would you use for this?

[Klara]

I think that's best discussed privately, I sent you a message. 

[jcwoman]

On 8/8/2022 at 8:33 AM, JHLeatherwood said:

If you're making 20 of these every  other month (120 a year?) and selling them, I'd suggest investing in a cutting die and arbor press from the cheap tools store.

I'd bet Policy Customs or Texas Dies could make you a steel rule die that would cut the end and punch all the holes at once for about $100.

So I was browsing arbor presses and they seemed similar to something I've already bought.  I have this:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08C4WWKN6/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It doesn't have the pressure rating of an arbor press, but seems to work very much the same.  Do you think it would work with a cutting die?  If not, that's fine.  I'm still just weighing my options.

 

[JHLeatherwood]

3 hours ago, jcwoman said:

So I was browsing arbor presses and they seemed similar to something I've already bought.  I have this:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08C4WWKN6/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It doesn't have the pressure rating of an arbor press, but seems to work very much the same.  Do you think it would work with a cutting die?  If not, that's fine.  I'm still just weighing my options.

 

Very similar concept, but I don't think you'll get the down force you need with that one. I have this one, with a "foot" by the Arbor Press Guy on etsy and I can cut out holsters from 10oz or wallets from 4-6 Oz with a breaker bar. 

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-arbor-press-3552.html

[jcwoman]

I hope you guys don't mind me coming back to add on to this thread some more!  Still trying to find my solution.  Over the weekend I thought I'd try an experiment with a hand drill before I spent money on a drill press.  It didn't go well at all.  The holes ended up looking chewed.  We tried it high speed, low speed, and two layers of leather, all bad.  Here's a picture.  So unless a drill press will have a much better result than a hand held drill, that leaves me with the arbor press and die solution, which I'm going to research a bit more into now.  Couple questions about custom dies:  if they need to be sharpened from time to time, how do you do that?  Are they less inclined to clog with the leather bits because they're much shallower than a punch?  Or would I still have to dig the leather plugs out of them?

[bruce johnson]

That is a typical drill bit hole. No getting around it, drill bits are not knife sharp no matter the quality or speed of feeding - they tear leather. Doc Reaper's advise with an oval punch was dead on, but finding really small oval punches without a steep taper is hard. The old European ones are good but hard to find one that has survived in good condition with the smaller sizes. I've done several thousand round holes with the same Harbor Freight bench top drill press with a mini or maxi tube punch chucked in it. Turn it on the punch won't stick even in wet leather. Use a cheap LDPE cutting board for the punch to go into and cut cleanly. This will work well even in wet skirting leather, At the end of the day, drill the punch into some paraffin wax and few times to lubricate the inside of the tube and prevent corrosion. Be aware and wear eye protection, the punchings fly out in random directions.

As far as your question on dies. Some of the ones I have had through here have screw in punch tubes. They are not any less or more apt to clog than that same tube in a regular punch. I've also had dies with pressed in tubes. when they break its a pain to swap them out. Sharpening the press fit tubes is a little trickier. With a screw in tube you can screw out of the die and into a handle to easily maneuver and watch your angle. Sharpening edges of the cutting die itself is pretty straightfoward with a handheld knife sharpener like an AccuSharp.  

[Matt S]

I'd also throw my vote behind having a cutting die made.

If your hand punches don't work, something's going wrong. Have you sharpened them? They're basically knives or wood chisels, but wrapped into a ring. They don't come sharp and need maintenance. If the plugs aren't ejecting try to see where they're hanging up -- maybe rough tooling marks or a sharp shoulder at the top of the bore where the plug changes direction to come out the ejection port. Smooth any roughness with a fine needle file, a rotary burr or some emery string or something. Remember that small punches are tricky to make cos they're so tight inside. I'd expect a 2mm punch to be used on a watch strap not a dog collar. The buckles I use for my 1/2" dog collars use a 4mm punch.

As a more general note I think that beeswax isn't a great tool lube for leather -- it's far too hard and sticky. I prefer glycerine or saddle soap, or if the leather is very hard, thick or grabby plain old dubbin/grease. Dip it every now and then soo as it gets grabby again.

Oh and on drilling leather yeah it's not a great practice but it can work. I like it for when I've painted myself into a corner and have to make a high-aspect hole (narrow hole in a thick stack of leather). I've found better success with brad-point ("lip-and-spur") drills than twist drills, since the former score the fibres around the circumference of the hole for a neater cut. Back each hole up with a piece of scrap wood to avoid blowout and move it along when it gets torn up. Spinning a punch, even a mediocre one, in a drill may be a better solution, so long as your drill runs slow enough and your punch runs true in the chuck. That's how they drill paper AIUI.

[jcwoman]

Oh, of course!  I'm an idiot, sorry.  I know at some point we were talking about chucking a punch into the drill, but for some reason that just evaporated out of my brain.

So, I tried that.  It worked great... for a couple holes.  Then the punch impacted with leather again.  I even punched it into my wax block in between every two leather punches.  I'm about as finished trying this as you guys are likely tired of hearing from me.    I guess I need to find someone to coach me in person to see what I'm doing wrong, and then maybe just do all the straps for me. 

 

[fredk]

tbh, I think you are worrying or fussing too much about the plugs getting stuck in the punch tube. Just about every punch I have gets plugs stuck in them and I need to clear them out, maybe every 6 holes, some punches take longer to block up. For small size punches, like 0.5mm to about 2.5mm I use a leather sewing-machine needle chucked in a micro-drill vice chuck to poke out the plugs. As an extreme measure on really stuck plugs I use a cigar/pipe lighter to burn the leather plug, then hoke it out

[chuck123wapati]

what exactly are you using to punch against? Is your leather damp or dry?

[jcwoman]

The only reason I'm fussing with the punch getting impacted is because it stops it from actually punching holes.  Just compresses circles into the leather instead.  And I was using a tiny wire brad with my mallet to clear it but sometimes had to dig the leather out and that dulled the edge of the punch.  If I tried to ignore it for 6 or 7 punches to see if it works itself out, it actually gets so impacted that I can't pound it out with the mallet and brad... gotta dig a few layers out. 

I have not yet tried the burning technique, so I guess I could do that.

I'm punching against a polyurethane punch board, and the leather is dry.  The procedure I was doing was this, but I could do the oiling first if that is better:

1.  measure, cut lengths and punch holes

2.  oil strips

3. dye strips

4. rivet parts together

Edited August 19, 2022 by jcwoman
added more info