What size punch or what tool would you use for this?

[Matt S]

I'd also throw my vote behind having a cutting die made.

If your hand punches don't work, something's going wrong. Have you sharpened them? They're basically knives or wood chisels, but wrapped into a ring. They don't come sharp and need maintenance. If the plugs aren't ejecting try to see where they're hanging up -- maybe rough tooling marks or a sharp shoulder at the top of the bore where the plug changes direction to come out the ejection port. Smooth any roughness with a fine needle file, a rotary burr or some emery string or something. Remember that small punches are tricky to make cos they're so tight inside. I'd expect a 2mm punch to be used on a watch strap not a dog collar. The buckles I use for my 1/2" dog collars use a 4mm punch.

As a more general note I think that beeswax isn't a great tool lube for leather -- it's far too hard and sticky. I prefer glycerine or saddle soap, or if the leather is very hard, thick or grabby plain old dubbin/grease. Dip it every now and then soo as it gets grabby again.

Oh and on drilling leather yeah it's not a great practice but it can work. I like it for when I've painted myself into a corner and have to make a high-aspect hole (narrow hole in a thick stack of leather). I've found better success with brad-point ("lip-and-spur") drills than twist drills, since the former score the fibres around the circumference of the hole for a neater cut. Back each hole up with a piece of scrap wood to avoid blowout and move it along when it gets torn up. Spinning a punch, even a mediocre one, in a drill may be a better solution, so long as your drill runs slow enough and your punch runs true in the chuck. That's how they drill paper AIUI.

[jcwoman]

Oh, of course!  I'm an idiot, sorry.  I know at some point we were talking about chucking a punch into the drill, but for some reason that just evaporated out of my brain.

So, I tried that.  It worked great... for a couple holes.  Then the punch impacted with leather again.  I even punched it into my wax block in between every two leather punches.  I'm about as finished trying this as you guys are likely tired of hearing from me.    I guess I need to find someone to coach me in person to see what I'm doing wrong, and then maybe just do all the straps for me. 

 

[fredk]

tbh, I think you are worrying or fussing too much about the plugs getting stuck in the punch tube. Just about every punch I have gets plugs stuck in them and I need to clear them out, maybe every 6 holes, some punches take longer to block up. For small size punches, like 0.5mm to about 2.5mm I use a leather sewing-machine needle chucked in a micro-drill vice chuck to poke out the plugs. As an extreme measure on really stuck plugs I use a cigar/pipe lighter to burn the leather plug, then hoke it out

[chuck123wapati]

what exactly are you using to punch against? Is your leather damp or dry?

[jcwoman]

The only reason I'm fussing with the punch getting impacted is because it stops it from actually punching holes.  Just compresses circles into the leather instead.  And I was using a tiny wire brad with my mallet to clear it but sometimes had to dig the leather out and that dulled the edge of the punch.  If I tried to ignore it for 6 or 7 punches to see if it works itself out, it actually gets so impacted that I can't pound it out with the mallet and brad... gotta dig a few layers out. 

I have not yet tried the burning technique, so I guess I could do that.

I'm punching against a polyurethane punch board, and the leather is dry.  The procedure I was doing was this, but I could do the oiling first if that is better:

1.  measure, cut lengths and punch holes

2.  oil strips

3. dye strips

4. rivet parts together

Edited August 19, 2022 by jcwoman
added more info

[jcwoman]

On 8/18/2022 at 12:58 PM, Matt S said:

 Remember that small punches are tricky to make cos they're so tight inside. I'd expect a 2mm punch to be used on a watch strap not a dog collar. The buckles I use for my 1/2" dog collars use a 4mm punch.

Oh, I was just re-reading this and it caught my eye.  You don't find that 4mm holes are too big for a 1/2" wide strip?  Maybe my problem will go away if I use a bigger gauge punch.  Or at least it would be easier to clear.

[chuck123wapati]

12 minutes ago, jcwoman said:

Oh, I was just re-reading this and it caught my eye.  You don't find that 4mm holes are too big for a 1/2" wide strip?  Maybe my problem will go away if I use a bigger gauge punch.  Or at least it would be easier to clear.

there is something wrong with your punch or your pounding board or both. That's all there is to it, punches have worked for hundreds, if not thousands, of years lol.   I just went down stairs and punched 30 holes with my 2.5 mm punch nothing for lube on dry leather and not a problem. My punches were bought off amazon and are nothing special at all. This one i didn't even sharpen  i use a 3mm for my 1/2" buckles but 4 would work ok too. 

[chuck123wapati]

27 minutes ago, jcwoman said:

Oh, I was just re-reading this and it caught my eye.  You don't find that 4mm holes are too big for a 1/2" wide strip?  Maybe my problem will go away if I use a bigger gauge punch.  Or at least it would be easier to clear.

i use the smallest punch that the buckle pin will fit inside the hole. i use Weaver 1/2" buckles and a 3mm punch.

[chuck123wapati]

10 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

there is something wrong with your punch or your pounding board or both. That's all there is to it, punches have worked for hundreds, if not thousands, of years lol.   I just went down stairs and punched 30 holes with my 2.5 mm punch nothing for lube on dry leather and not a problem. My punches were bought off amazon and are nothing special at all. This one i didn't even sharpen  i use a 3mm for my 1/2" buckles but 4 would work ok too. 

your punch may just be to dull to cut the leather cleanly or your board is to soft to allow your punch to cut cleanly.

[Doc Reaper]

I’m an old guy that can’t find my keys if I’m holding them in my hand!

But if you have a belt sander try knocking off that little bit of shoulder that I see in this pic, it’s a small one but enough to fight with the leather

Edited August 19, 2022 by Doc Reaper
Grammar

[chuck123wapati]

A 1.5 and a 2.5 mm punch, `the plugs and holes should show a nice clean cut i bought these on amazon for about 10 bucks for the set. I can punch all day and they just pop out . I tried pushing them out with  my round awl and they came out easy which is the way they are supposed to.  One good quick rap with a wooden hammer is all you should need if your tools are working correctly.

[chuck123wapati]

3 minutes ago, Doc Reaper said:

I’m an old guy that can’t find my keys if I’m holding them in my hand!

But if you have a belt sander try knocking off that little bit of shoulder that I see in this pic, it’s a small one but enough to fight with the leather

oh yea now i can see it too the tip is jacked up. actually looks to thin and was flared out which would cut a plug to big for the hole.

[jcwoman]

6 minutes ago, Doc Reaper said:

I’m an old guy that can’t find my keys if I’m holding them in my hand!

But if you have a belt sander try knocking off that little bit of shoulder that I see in this pic, it’s a small one but enough to fight with the leather

I claim newbieness... can you put an arrow or circle around the bit you're talking about?

[jcwoman]

39 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

there is something wrong with your punch or your pounding board or both. That's all there is to it, punches have worked for hundreds, if not thousands, of years lol.   I just went down stairs and punched 30 holes with my 2.5 mm punch nothing for lube on dry leather and not a problem. My punches were bought off amazon and are nothing special at all. This one i didn't even sharpen  i use a 3mm for my 1/2" buckles but 4 would work ok too. 

I know, that's what's making me crazy.    I must be doing something wrong, or not sharpening the punch correctly or something!  Trying to figure it out.  I've also punched against an old retired kitchen cutting board (wood).  It has lots of little circles all over it now.  

Since I am new at this, maybe I just haven't found the knack for it yet.  Things seemed okay at first, then went downhill.

[jcwoman]

10 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

oh yea now i can see it too the tip is jacked up. actually looks to thin and was flared out which would cut a plug to big for the hole.

Ohh, I see what you mean.  Yeah, could be my shitty attempt at sharpening it.  I'll address that.

[chuck123wapati]

Just now, jcwoman said:

Ohh, I see what you mean.  Yeah, could be my shitty attempt at sharpening it.  I'll address that.

if it was working and now its not...... lol If i were you i would just pop 10 bucks on a new set if you can afford it maybe a couple sets so you have a backup the one you have may have been made wrong. to soft of steel, burrs or what ever but its time to chalk it up as a bad punch IMO, place the order, have a beer!

[jcwoman]

You're not wrong, but... this is a second punch that I bought after thinking the first one was cheap/soft/bad.  I can absolutely buy a third one, but I'm starting to think it's my attempt at sharpening that's the problem, so I think I should fix that first.

So to sharpen it, I chuck it into the drill and hold sandpaper over the tip while I run the drill.  The outside edge looks better after that, but after a few punches the edge rolls over again.  Maybe that's normal and you have to clear the plugs and re-sharpen it after every 4 or so holes?  Really, my issue is that I'm spending more time unplugging and sharpening than doing actual strapwork.

While fixing the edge this time after you guys called that out, I used a magnifying glass to examine it.  That works fine, but I sure wish there was a way to see if the inside is roughened up to cause the jams.  I can hold it up to my shop light and see the light through it but I need a third hand with a really good magnifying glass to really see the inside surface. 

[chuck123wapati]

1 minute ago, jcwoman said:

You're not wrong, but... this is a second punch that I bought after thinking the first one was cheap/soft/bad.  I can absolutely buy a third one, but I'm starting to think it's my attempt at sharpening that's the problem, so I think I should fix that first.

So to sharpen it, I chuck it into the drill and hold sandpaper over the tip while I run the drill.  The outside edge looks better after that, but after a few punches the edge rolls over again.  Maybe that's normal and you have to clear the plugs and re-sharpen it after every 4 or so holes?  Really, my issue is that I'm spending more time unplugging and sharpening than doing actual strapwork.

While fixing the edge this time after you guys called that out, I used a magnifying glass to examine it.  That works fine, but I sure wish there was a way to see if the inside is roughened up to cause the jams.  I can hold it up to my shop light and see the light through it but I need a third hand with a really good magnifying glass to really see the inside surface. 

ok  the edge doesn't need to be knife blade sharp but you shouldn't see a large flat on the bottom either  if you get it to thin it will just keep bending. The edge bevel should be 30 degrees or even more, like your swivel knife bevel short and fat only on a punch its to keep it from bending. Just about half the length of bevel you see in your picture. i don't sharpen any of my small punches unless they get a nick.

[jcwoman]

Okay, thanks, that's super helpful! 

[Doc Reaper]

Just to make sure we are on the same page, I have increased the view to see why you are having problems 

first the shoulder needs to be tapered

second is that punch appears in need of some sharpening, I see what looks like a messed up edge. Both of those will cause problems and make sure you are using a thick chunk of leather over your board. It helps keep your punch in working order!

 I can see what it needs, and it’s not a bad idea to get a new punch, I’m sure I Most folks have multiple hole punches 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Doc Reaper

[Klara]

I admit, I've made quite a few dog collars and I've never tried to sharpen a punch. I did buy a new one, though, when the 0.75 mm one suddenly made much bigger holes because the edge had broken off (in case anybody wonders: The tiny holes are not for the buckle, but for decorative rivets.) That's how I learned that wood is not a good base for punching (I then bought a small piece of that white stuff that's made for purpose). I  have a handle with screw-in punch bits - the small bits cost very little money. And yes, the smaller the punch, the easier the leather gets stuck, but I just live with it and poke out the plugs. If I do it regularly, it's quickly done. 

[jcwoman]

I think my main lesson from all of this is that my sharpening skills need to improve, which isn't outrageous given that I'm new at it.  Practice makes perfect!

But also, I'm going to buy another punch, a bit larger.  Either  3mm or 4mm size, and the style that Chuck pictured above.  It looks like those have a better taper to begin with.

Edited August 21, 2022 by jcwoman
added another thought