Chisel Size for Pocket Projects?

[Showe33]

Im learning about stitching chisels (which is a broad and overwhelming topic for a newbie), and trying to figure out what I need for my style of projects.

I’d like to make small pouch-style projects for things like leatherman or Gerber multitools, as well as for various types of tool rolls.

I’ve seen a number of videos and it looks like some people are using wider stitch sizes, about 3-4mm (shown below). I’m not making watch bands, so I don’t need tight groupings; I don’t want reduce the integrity of the leather.

Based on what I’ve seen and read, I’m thinking of buying a #18 needle, a set of 3 or 4mm flat or diamond chisels, and using 6mm thread for these types of projects. If I’m way off base with some of this, please let me know

[fredk]

I like to use these sewing hole pliers. The teeth are about 2mm wide with about 2.5mm between them. They can punch through thin leathers, up to about 4.5 mm thick. They are available with 4 teeth or 2 teeth

I use 0.8 or 1mm thread  with, afair a 17g needle

[zuludog]

Welcome to the Forum, and welcome to the fun!

Yes, choosing stitching chisels, thread, and needles is confusing, and you can easily be overwhelmed & lost. I have made similar cases/pouches for my stitching chisels and small knives, though not for a multitool, but the techniques would be the same. Here are a few comments

I would use 2mm thick leather and 0,6mm synthetic thread

The only #18 needles I've seen on the Net are Tapestry Hand Sewing Needles, and they look too big for leatherwork. I use John James Saddler's Harness Needles, item code L3912 size 002 - but make sure you get size 002 and not 2/0 which are too big. I assume you are in the USA; JJ needles and suitable thread are sold by Rocky Mountains Leather Supply, but perhaps other Members will have their suggestions

Stitching chisels with 3 to 4 mm spacing is about right. French or European chisels have prongs with flat sides and flat tips; Japanese or diamond chisels have prongs with a diamond cross section and pointed tips. Diamond chisels are slightly easier to place and make a diamond shaped hole. French chisels make a hole that is a slit and need a bit more care about placing, and some people think they give a neater stitch, though there's not much in it. Both types of hole don't actually remove any material so they will close up after stitching.

The cases for chisels will probably be simple & flat. For bulkier items like small knives and multitools you'd probably need to look at wet forming or a pouch with sides or a gusset, like a belt pouch. As you've probably realised there are several videos about this, Search YT for Making a Belt / Multitool Pouch  but start with something simple!   

Remember you shouldn't hit stitching chisels with a steel hammer, you will need a soft mallet, such as wood, hide, or nylon. Neither should you hit down on your cutting mat; I use a plastic kitchen chopping board or an old magazine. 

In the Sewing Leather section of this Forum there is a Thread(!) about stitching chisels

Edited October 24, 2022 by zuludog

[Tugadude]

Zuludog gave some great recommendations.  Here is the topic thread he mentioned.  Nigel Armitage's info pertaining to specific chisels and their use, along with the recommended needle and thread size is extremely valuable.  I suggest you check it out.  Very educational in my opinion.

Many leatherworkers like Ritza 25, also known as "Tiger Thread" due to the tiger on the packaging.  I think the 0.6 and the 0.8 are particularly suitable for the type of work you are wanting to do.  

Here also is the list of reviews from Nigel Armitage.  If you check out his current videos he shows many of the chisels in action.  You can also sometimes catch the "wall of chisels" in his workshop where they are on display.  Quite the collection!

This might not be totally up to date, but you can check by going to his website.

file:///C:/Users/Peter%20Jaegers/Downloads/Armitage%20Stitching%20Iron%20Reviews.pdf

 

Good luck!

 

[zuludog]

I've just remembered -- Search YT for 'Nigel Armitage pouches'. He shows several types, from simple 2 piece front & back to more complex designs

Oh, and most people try a few different combinations of stitching chisels/needles/thread when they start, before they settle on what suits them; like I said, it's all part of the fun!

Even though chisels should cover most of what you do, now & again you might need an awl. Search t'Net and YouTube for choosing & using a saddler's or diamond awl, but that's another topic.

Edited October 24, 2022 by zuludog

[Tugadude]

For the price, I have found these to be pretty effective.  For small wallets, the 3mm would be good.  EDIT:  No need to buy the one-prong iron in my opinion.  But if you buy the whole set, not a big deal, still less than $10 bucks per.

https://www.springfieldleather.com/Craftmaster-3mm-Diamond-Point-Stitching-Chisel?quantity=1&other-options=1

Edited October 24, 2022 by Tugadude

[sbrownn]

3 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Many leatherworkers like Ritza 25, also known as "Tiger Thread" due to the tiger on the packaging.  I think the 0.6 and the 0.8 are particularly suitable for the type of work you are wanting to do.  

+1 on the Tiger Thread.  That is the only thread I use now including in my sewing machine.

[Northmount]

17 hours ago, zuludog said:

I assume you are in the USA

IP address is for Toronto, Ontario Canada.

@Showe33  You may add your location to your profile so you get responses relative to your location when location is an important part of the equation.

 

[Klara]

On 10/24/2022 at 7:49 AM, zuludog said:

French or European chisels have prongs with flat sides and flat tips; Japanese or diamond chisels have prongs with a diamond cross section and pointed tips.

More important: French pricking irons (not chisels) are meant for marking stitches and then using an awl to make the hole (unless you are working with very thin leather, <1.5 mm). If you want to work without awl, get diamond chisels. You can use them for punching through the leather, or for just marking your stitches, depending on how hard you hit them.

[Heartless]

On 10/24/2022 at 10:55 AM, Tugadude said:

No need to buy the one-prong iron in my opinion.

actually, there are times when a single point chisel is useful

say you are going around a zipper cut out - you get close to finishing and realize that the spacing is slightly off to use the 2 point for that last hole... use the single point to center the last hole and minimize the visual impact of that one being slightly different than the rest.

If i were going to skip one when buying individually, it would be the 4 point...  6 point for long straight runs, 2 point for working around curves, and the single point for times like described above. I have a full set as shown above and rarely use the 4 point

[Tugadude]

1 hour ago, Heartless said:

actually, there are times when a single point chisel is useful

say you are going around a zipper cut out - you get close to finishing and realize that the spacing is slightly off to use the 2 point for that last hole... use the single point to center the last hole and minimize the visual impact of that one being slightly different than the rest.

If i were going to skip one when buying individually, it would be the 4 point...  6 point for long straight runs, 2 point for working around curves, and the single point for times like described above. I have a full set as shown above and rarely use the 4 point

If I need to do that I use an awl, works just fine.

[Heartless]

9 hours ago, Tugadude said:

If I need to do that I use an awl, works just fine.

yeah, i suppose it would, if one had the correct type of awl.. I dont, so...
all i have at the moment is just a scratch awl.. still building my tool set a little at a time

 

[chuck123wapati]

On 6/7/2023 at 7:29 PM, Heartless said:

yeah, i suppose it would, if one had the correct type of awl.. I dont, so...
all i have at the moment is just a scratch awl.. still building my tool set a little at a time

 

you need an awl before you need chisels or at the least at the same time.

 

On 10/24/2022 at 9:55 AM, Tugadude said:

For the price, I have found these to be pretty effective.  For small wallets, the 3mm would be good.  EDIT:  No need to buy the one-prong iron in my opinion.  But if you buy the whole set, not a big deal, still less than $10 bucks per.

https://www.springfieldleather.com/Craftmaster-3mm-Diamond-Point-Stitching-Chisel?quantity=1&other-options=1

i tried some similar to these, they bend really easily. 

[Tugadude]

46 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

you need an awl before you need chisels or at the least at the same time.

 

i tried some similar to these, they bend really easily. 

Mine never have.  I own some of the black ones which Tandy sells and the tines on those are prone to bending.  

One thing that helps is to make 100% sure that the chisel is plumb before striking it.  Another is to avoid twisting the iron when removing it from the leather.  I use a block of wood and pull straight up, and they release very easily that way.  The other negative to twisting is that it enlarges the holes.  The holes should only be large enough that you can easily pass the threads through.  Too large isn't good.  Tapping them down with a smooth-faced hammer helps, but it won't close up huge holes.  

[Tugadude]

The most recent irons I purchased were the Aiskaer ones off of Amazon.  For the price, the quality is ridiculously good.  $9.99 and free shipping if you have Prime Plus.  

https://www.amazon.com/Aiskaer-Diamond-Lacing-Stitching-Leather/dp/B014549SNG/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3GDG154QZX5W5&keywords=stitching+chisels&qid=1686580411&sprefix=stitching+chisels%2Caps%2C86&sr=8-5

[chuck123wapati]

44 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

Mine never have.  I own some of the black ones which Tandy sells and the tines on those are prone to bending.  

One thing that helps is to make 100% sure that the chisel is plumb before striking it.  Another is to avoid twisting the iron when removing it from the leather.  I use a block of wood and pull straight up, and they release very easily that way.  The other negative to twisting is that it enlarges the holes.  The holes should only be large enough that you can easily pass the threads through.  Too large isn't good.  Tapping them down with a smooth-faced hammer helps, but it won't close up huge holes.  

mine were cheapo amazon, I replaced them with Tandy craft tool pro series and haven't had one bend yet and use them just the same.

The cheapos work ok and they do the job plus they are just as easy to straighten as they are to bend lol. 

[Tugadude]

15 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

mine were cheapo amazon, I replaced them with Tandy craft tool pro series and haven't had one bend yet and use them just the same.

The cheapos work ok and they do the job plus they are just as easy to straighten as they are to bend lol. 

The Tandy Craftool Pro series irons are nice.  I own two sets, the 2.5 and the 3.5mm.  They are the diamond chisels and the only thing I wish was that they were a little more slanted and that the teeth were a tad narrower.  There are some irons on the market that I suspect would be perfect for my taste, but I'm not in the mood to spend $200.00 when the ones I have work nearly as well.  

The ones from Tandy that bent were the black ones.  You can bend the teeth back one time, then they want to crack and fall off.  It is a shame, because otherwise they give a good result.  

[Tugadude]

 

[Heartless]

2 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

you need an awl before you need chisels or at the least at the same time.

LOL, no you dont.
if you use pricking irons, then maybe yeah, but the diamond chisels do not require an awl. if I need to poke a hole outside of the stitching chisels, I have plenty of other options

I actually have two "cheap" sets of the diamond chisels (included with other Amazon purchases), both 4mm spacing, and neither set has tried to bend on me.. and I have used them on some pretty thick leather - the pistol case I did, the main body pieces are out of 10-12oz leather.. the handles are of the same leather split down the middle, doubled over and stitched together.. had to punch down one side, fold them and mark a starting point for the other side (scratch awl worked for that, but a needle, or anything else small enough to fit thru the hole would have worked) because it was just too much to punch all at once.

You use what you have and being on a fixed income, i dont have a lot yet.. have only been playing with leather for a couple of months.. started purchasing stuff in March of this year.

 

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, Heartless said:

LOL, no you dont.
if you use pricking irons, then maybe yeah, but the diamond chisels do not require an awl. if I need to poke a hole outside of the stitching chisels, I have plenty of other options

I actually have two "cheap" sets of the diamond chisels (included with other Amazon purchases), both 4mm spacing, and neither set has tried to bend on me.. and I have used them on some pretty thick leather - the pistol case I did, the main body pieces are out of 10-12oz leather.. the handles are of the same leather split down the middle, doubled over and stitched together.. had to punch down one side, fold them and mark a starting point for the other side (scratch awl worked for that, but a needle, or anything else small enough to fit thru the hole would have worked) because it was just too much to punch all at once.

You use what you have and being on a fixed income, i dont have a lot yet.. have only been playing with leather for a couple of months.. started purchasing stuff in March of this year.

 

lol you've been doing this for two months and asked for advise ....   ok good luck sorry i wasted your time.

[SUP]

4 hours ago, Tugadude said:

The most recent irons I purchased were the Aiskaer ones off of Amazon.  For the price, the quality is ridiculously good.  $9.99 and free shipping if you have Prime Plus.  

https://www.amazon.com/Aiskaer-Diamond-Lacing-Stitching-Leather/dp/B014549SNG/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3GDG154QZX5W5&keywords=stitching+chisels&qid=1686580411&sprefix=stitching+chisels%2Caps%2C86&sr=8-5

 

I use these as well. They work fine. They are sharp and have not yet bent, even  when punching leather up to 6-7 oz. I have not tried with thicker leather. And at the low price, replacement does not hurt, if they do bend or break.

[fredk]

On 10/24/2022 at 4:55 PM, Tugadude said:

https://www.springfieldleather.com/Craftmaster-3mm-Diamond-Point-Stitching-Chisel?quantity=1&other-options=1

I have these in 3mm and 4mm. Cheap ones, Cost me about £6 or  £8 for a set of 4.  Never bent yet. Sharpening and polishing them helps them cut. The 3mm set matches quite closely but not 100% the tooth spacing on my pliers type.  These are useful for where the pliers cant reach.

Also, even with these chisels or the pliers a good sharp diamond awl is required as the holes may be 1. not perfectly through, 2. too small, 3. have closed up a bit

When I recently did this book cover I used my pliers type to punch the sewing holes almost all the way around, but they could not reach over the pen holding loop, that's where the chisels were used. As I sewed around the perimeter I had to use the awl a few times to open up the holes

[fredk]

btw, highly recommended for use with the chisels is one of these;

they are easily made so don't be tempted by the ones costing £20! I made mine out of an off-cut of acrylic perspex which I had laying around (I'm always on the scrounge for bits of stuff like this,   )

[chuck123wapati]

18 hours ago, Heartless said:

. have only been playing with leather for a couple of months.. started purchasing stuff in March of this year.

 

oh I'm sorry i thought you were the op but your not.  Yes you do need an awl in fact If you have an awl you don't need the chisels. i agree you can use a teaspoon and a pair of pliers if you want or any number of sharp pointy things but your stitch lines will suck ! compared to doing it the right way plus your hands will love you to death, makes pulling the thread and finding the holes 100 times easier.

I know about fixed incomes too i have to make most of my tools including my awl blades. But if you have to buy one thing buy a good awl.

15 hours ago, fredk said:

btw, highly recommended for use with the chisels is one of these;

they are easily made so don't be tempted by the ones costing £20! I made mine out of an off-cut of acrylic perspex which I had laying around (I'm always on the scrounge for bits of stuff like this,   )

these rock!!

[Heartless]

16 hours ago, fredk said:

btw, highly recommended for use with the chisels is one of these;

they are easily made so don't be tempted by the ones costing £20! I made mine out of an off-cut of acrylic perspex which I had laying around (I'm always on the scrounge for bits of stuff like this,   )

I 3D printed one - works great!

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

 Yes you do need an awl in fact If you have an awl you don't need the chisels.

and if you have the diamond point chisels, you dont need an awl... to each their own. There is nothing wrong with my stitch lines, btw.. and I dont have problems finding the holes, either.

do you see problems with my stitch lines?? I dont.

 

On 10/23/2022 at 4:27 PM, Showe33 said:

Based on what I’ve seen and read, I’m thinking of buying a #18 needle, a set of 3 or 4mm flat or diamond chisels, and using 6mm thread for these types of projects. If I’m way off base with some of this, please let me know

the above bag was made using 4mm diamond point stitching chisels, and 0.8mm thread using John James harness needles as recommended by others.

the "flat" chisels are meant for lacing/buck stitching, not what you want for normal stitching.

the diagonal blade ones are pricking irons and are not meant to go all the way thru the leather, they are just for marking where stitching goes, you then use an awl to finish the holes while stitching.

The diamond point chisels are meant to go all the way thru the leather, and as such do not require an awl to complete the hole when they are used correctly.

i hope that helps clear up some of the confusion regarding the different types of chisels you see available

Edited June 13, 2023 by Heartless
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