Chisel Size for Pocket Projects?

[Tugadude]

15 minutes ago, SUP said:

@Tugadude Yes I see. Everything ready and, like I mentioned to @fredk I feel its like cheating when everything is cut and punched and ready to sew.

Finally, nothing quire like a pattern,  piece of leather, some cutting tools and chisels to work with. 

I think the value of these kits is as a starter project.  For example, in scouting, these can make a relatively easy project and the kids can decorate them in a variety of ways.  They end up with a usable item that they crafted, even if it is only assembly.  From there, they might want to tackle something else, and on, and on.  My older brother did that.

[fredk]

14 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

I think the value of these kits is as a starter project.  For example, in scouting, these can make a relatively easy project and the kids can decorate them in a variety of ways.  They end up with a usable item that they crafted, even if it is only assembly. 

Agree.  OT now; I'm making up some basic kits for the ladies & 1 man in my 'Knit & Natter' group to make up coin purses like the one in the earlier picture. I'll be pre-punching most of the holes, but to my standard. Thus, assembly should be speedy

@SUP One other thing to do which helps the leather close up and grip the thread is to go over the stitching tapping it down with light-weight mallet or hammer. A small plastic and/or rubber headed hammer is good. Just lightly tap down the sewing line. Leave no marks on the leather. You'll notice a difference

[SUP]

@Tugadude yes that is absolutely true. 

Not growing up here, had no idea of their uses in that way.

[SUP]

@fredk tapping on the stitches sounds simple but whenever I do it, it looks smashed, even with a light rubber mallet. I will need to be even lighter. Too impatient, I think. My scissor sheath last night has stitches looking a little the worse for wear because of that.

Your coin wallet pattern is really nice - simple and elegant. It is a key chain too, isn't it? I make one but not a key chain. That makes it even more useful.

[fredk]

2 hours ago, SUP said:

@fredk tapping on the stitches sounds simple but whenever I do it, it looks smashed, even with a light rubber mallet. I will need to be even lighter. Too impatient, I think. My scissor sheath last night has stitches looking a little the worse for wear because of that.

Easy easy, very lighty taps. The smaller your mallet the lighter it is and thus lighter taps. I mean really light taps, just use the weight of the mallet to drop down, no extra force required. I use the rubber side of this type of mallet, its pretty useless for anything else;

I use the plastic head, the yellow part, for tapping down glued edges, when required

Some times I use a lightweight tack hammer, it weighs less than 3 ounces;

Again, just very light taps, mainly just the weight of the head dropping on the threads, no extra force.

Hold either mallet or hammer in a grip using just your thumb & forefinger and let the hammer pivot there, let the head drop, your almost open palm will stop the tail end.

I guess I'm used to holding this way and the motion as that's how I held the grip on my sports swords during sports fencing.

Edited June 14, 2023 by fredk

[SUP]

@fredkWill try that technique for my next project. Thank you. 

[Burkhardt]

15 hours ago, Heartless said:

look at the hole those make - diamond shaped - they most definitely ARE diamond chisels.

I would suggest that you should do some homework on the difference between chisels and diamond point. As you can clearly see in the picture it is sharp on 2 sides, not 4. Just as with these is also sewing machine needles, diamond point or LR, RL and others. One cuts a diamond shaped hole and the others at a angle.

[Heartless]

On 6/14/2023 at 9:02 PM, Burkhardt said:

As you can clearly see in the picture it is sharp on 2 sides, not 4.

and it has nothing to do with how many edges are sharp - it is the SHAPE that is being referred to - the shape of the teeth, and the shape of the hole they leave behind.

and as far as doing my homework - pretty much everyone out there says that is a diamond point. Weaver leather, Tandy leather, and a bunch of leather artists as well. so, yeah, I have done my homework, and lots of it before I even thought about purchasing anything for this craft.

sorry, but I am not finding this place all that great after all... bunch of self righteous people insisting that any way besides their way is wrong.. my stitches are gonna look like crap because i dont use an awl.. Not a great way to encourage people new to the craft.

See ya.

 

[SUP]

The people here are experienced leather craftsmen and they generously share their knowledge from their own experiences. It is up to each person asking advise to use what works best for them, or not. 

 

 

 

[Burkhardt]

3 hours ago, Heartless said:

and it has nothing to do with how many edges are sharp - it is the SHAPE that is being referred to - the shape of the teeth, and the shape of the hole they leave behind.

and as far as doing my homework - pretty much everyone out there says that is a diamond point. Weaver leather, Tandy leather, and a bunch of leather artists as well. so, yeah, I have done my homework, and lots of it before I even thought about purchasing anything for this craft.

sorry, but I am not finding this place all that great after all... bunch of self righteous people insisting that any way besides their way is wrong.. my stitches are gonna look like crap because i dont use an awl.. Not a great way to encourage people new to the craft.

See ya.

 

That's comical from someone who underlines what are and are not like a expert, and they're wrong.

[chuck123wapati]

omg cmon folks lighten up has the psyops from social media destroyed your ability to have a conversation? 

 I would call that a diamond chisel. A really crappy made diamond chisel!!!  with the flat chisel edge it more resembles the lacing chisels i own. All my diamond chisels are filed to a point on all four sides like an awl, like Burkhart is trying to say, which really means they aren't chisels after all  LOL. But the tines themselves are cut the same the shape of the point being the only difference i can see from the ones I OWN.

See folks the English language isn't the best to use but its what we have to determine the names of things the bad part is there seems to be more than one English language. Also several ways to interpret other languages into English. 

Why they call them chisels!!!!!!

Chisel,   noun, a wedge like tool with a cutting edge at the end of the blade, often made of steel, used for cutting or shaping wood, stone, etc. 

Also found this while perusing the subject,    lol so my above comment about them not being chisels is wrong also man isn't learning fun!!!

 

diamond-point chisel

noun

 

: a cold chisel having a diamond-shaped cutting face for cutting V grooves or sharp internal corners

 

 

SO NOW with that new information  ITS NOT A "DIAMOND POINT CHISEL"  but it is still a chisel and does cut the same shape into leather with the same or similar angle.

 

Last thing I, m not yelling, arguing or any other negative connotations you may want to read into this I just copied and pasted and I'm not gonna waste my time changing fonts!!!! 

[Danne]

Since this thread is quite old now, you probably already bought the tools you need, but I share my thoughts if someone else have the same question.

You wrote "I’d like to make small pouch-style projects for things like leatherman or Gerber multitools, as well as for various types of tool rolls."

I would say a good choice is LCDiamond from leathercrafttools https://leathercrafttools.com/tools/punch/stitching-chisel-pro/list/ or Seiwa, CraftSha, Kyoshin Elle or OKA from Goodsjapan (I wonder if OKA produce them all? just a wild guess, maybe someone know?)

and you want a thread that is strong, and suitable for outdoor use. Personally I would use Ritza (Tiger thread) 

[Burkhardt]

8 hours ago, Danne said:

Since this thread is quite old now, you probably already bought the tools you need, but I share my thoughts if someone else have the same question.

You wrote "I’d like to make small pouch-style projects for things like leatherman or Gerber multitools, as well as for various types of tool rolls."

I would say a good choice is LCDiamond from leathercrafttools https://leathercrafttools.com/tools/punch/stitching-chisel-pro/list/ or Seiwa, CraftSha, Kyoshin Elle or OKA from Goodsjapan (I wonder if OKA produce them all? just a wild guess, maybe someone know?)

and you want a thread that is strong, and suitable for outdoor use. Personally I would use Ritza (Tiger thread) 

That's where I used as a reference about the stitching chisels pictures was the OKA website.

[Burkhardt]

12 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

 I would call that a diamond chisel. A really crappy made diamond chisel!!!  with the flat chisel edge it more resembles the lacing chisels i own

They actually make nice tools and my point was being they are actually made and make the same hole as using a LR sewing needle to make a diagonal cut, not diamond hole. https://www.oka-craft-tools.co.jp/en/itemlist/item/?no=495

[Danne]

10 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

They actually make nice tools and my point was being they are actually made and make the same hole as using a LR sewing needle to make a diagonal cut, not diamond hole. https://www.oka-craft-tools.co.jp/en/itemlist/item/?no=495

I agree that their "French style" irons make a diagonal cut and not a diamond cut. But I wouldn't really call them French style irons either, the holes are wider and seems to be quite short. I believe that the look of the stitching will be similar to what their diamond irons produce than a French style iron. But the important thing here is what style we prefer. But in my opinion these irons (Diamond or flat diagonal style) No matter if it's from OKA, Kyoshin Elle, CraftSha or LcDiamond, I would say that it would look better on projects with a little bit thicker thread. For fine leathergoods stitched with 0.3-0.5mm round thread my personal opinion is that these holes will be too large. Of course depending a little bit on the temper of leather and how well it close up. I mean let's say you make a slim card holder in Cordovan leather and use a thread around 0.4mm, these holes will stand out. 

[Burkhardt]

6 hours ago, Danne said:

I agree that their "French style" irons make a diagonal cut and not a diamond cut. But I wouldn't really call them French style irons either, the holes are wider and seems to be quite short. I believe that the look of the stitching will be similar to what their diamond irons produce than a French style iron. But the important thing here is what style we prefer. But in my opinion these irons (Diamond or flat diagonal style) No matter if it's from OKA, Kyoshin Elle, CraftSha or LcDiamond, I would say that it would look better on projects with a little bit thicker thread. For fine leathergoods stitched with 0.3-0.5mm round thread my personal opinion is that these holes will be too large. Of course depending a little bit on the temper of leather and how well it close up. I mean let's say you make a slim card holder in Cordovan leather and use a thread around 0.4mm, these holes will stand out. 

No those big holes on anything thin would not be a pretty sight.

[NDphung]

On 6/17/2023 at 1:06 PM, Danne said:

Since this thread is quite old now, you probably already bought the tools you need, but I share my thoughts if someone else have the same question.

You wrote "I’d like to make small pouch-style projects for things like leatherman or Gerber multitools, as well as for various types of tool rolls."

I would say a good choice is LCDiamond from leathercrafttools https://leathercrafttools.com/tools/punch/stitching-chisel-pro/list/ or Seiwa, CraftSha, Kyoshin Elle or OKA from Goodsjapan (I wonder if OKA produce them all? just a wild guess, maybe someone know?)

and you want a thread that is strong, and suitable for outdoor use. Personally I would use Ritza (Tiger thread) 

Hi, thanks Danne for sharing your advices. I second this advice as I did a little bit of research to chose my tool purchases. I happen to own OKA chisels both in Diamond Chisels and their "French style " chisels. Their "French Style" which they call Diagonal Hole Punch IS NOT a Diamond Hole Chisel (punch). It does not end in a point, it is a straight line so you need to align them like regular French Chisel. 

I joined a picture of the differences in the hole they make. From Left to Right: 1) OKA 5.0mm Diamond Chisel , 2) OKA 4.0mm Diamond Chisel, 3) OKA 3.5mm Diagonal French Chisel, 4) RML 3.85mm French, 5) Junlin 3.00mm French 6) OKA 3.00 mm Diamond Chisel. This was made on 2.00mm Medium Firm Veg Tan leather. The top part is after the holes are tapped down before stitching. 

As you noticed the OKA Diagonal French Chisel is very different from the other two but also very different from the Diamond Chisel. So I would not call it a Diamond Point or Chisel.

As far as the Original Post concerned you are quite spot on with your recommendation (knowing that you have experienced with Meisi thread).  I started out like most leathercrafters with Diamond Chisel/Irons and Ritza thread. but I like now European/French Style with Meisi Xiange thread. Totally depends on what you do and the aesthetic you want to achieve. 

[NDphung]

On 6/13/2023 at 1:35 PM, chuck123wapati said:

You mean the chisels stitch lines don't you Yea they are almost perfect. never the less if you don't have an awl and don't use one you have no experience to say if they make the job easier or not. Don't get me wrong i have used chisels for many years, even before i had an awl too!!!  I used to think the way you did until I figured it out it but to each their own as you say.

I can only speak with my limited experience. I've been making a few wallet and passport holder and never even use a Diamond Awl as a lot of chisel/irons nowadays are made to punch all the way through. And the resulting stitch is pretty good on both sides. I recently took a formal Leather Marquetry class taught by an experienced leathercrafter (we have a formal leathercraft school here in Montreal, Canada with a 3 years leathercraftsman course) . She taught me the traditional way with an awl and a French Style clamp. The result was pretty awful. The stitch on the front side is OK but the backside is pretty crappy as you cannot see the other side with the clam between your leg and you have to poke through the leather with your awl). I understand that if you are making bags, or dealing with thicker leather, you have no choice but use an awl. But the learning curve is pretty steep. I found it easier to just punch through than mark with a pricking irons or wheels (that is what everybody used years ago) and lead with an awl to pierce the leather, If you make items which are not too thick.  

[NDphung]

On 10/24/2022 at 8:22 AM, Tugadude said:

Zuludog gave some great recommendations.  Here is the topic thread he mentioned.  Nigel Armitage's info pertaining to specific chisels and their use, along with the recommended needle and thread size is extremely valuable.  I suggest you check it out.  Very educational in my opinion.

Many leatherworkers like Ritza 25, also known as "Tiger Thread" due to the tiger on the packaging.  I think the 0.6 and the 0.8 are particularly suitable for the type of work you are wanting to do.  

Here also is the list of reviews from Nigel Armitage.  If you check out his current videos he shows many of the chisels in action.  You can also sometimes catch the "wall of chisels" in his workshop where they are on display.  Quite the collection!

This might not be totally up to date, but you can check by going to his website.

file:///C:/Users/Peter%20Jaegers/Downloads/Armitage%20Stitching%20Iron%20Reviews.pdf

 

Good luck!

 

If you have access to Instagram there is a recent post by "industrialconcepts" who makes stamping machines and many great leathercrafters share their irons-thread size they use (Peter Nitz, Carswell Leather, Mila Jito etc.)

[chuck123wapati]

2 minutes ago, NDphung said:

I can only speak with my limited experience. I've been making a few wallet and passport holder and never even use a Diamond Awl as a lot of chisel/irons nowadays are made to punch all the way through. And the resulting stitch is pretty good on both sides. I recently took a formal Leather Marquetry class taught by an experienced leathercrafter (we have a formal leathercraft school here in Montreal, Canada with a 3 years leathercraftsman course) . She taught me the traditional way with an awl and a French Style clamp. The result was pretty awful. The stitch on the front side is OK but the backside is pretty crappy as you cannot see the other side with the clam between your leg and you have to poke through the leather with your awl). I understand that if you are making bags, or dealing with thicker leather, you have no choice but use an awl. But the learning curve is pretty steep. I found it easier to just punch through than mark with a pricking irons or wheels (that is what everybody used years ago) and lead with an awl to pierce the leather, If you make items which are not too thick.  

yup awls take practice and skill. chisels don't that's why folks rely on them so much, me included.

When you learn to use an awl you take about an hours chisel work from the equation, it becomes simpler and faster to use only an awl and two needles.

Another thing i found is if your clam is built correctly you can use the edge of the clam as a guide for your awl Check out an antique glovers clam sometime its built with notches along the edge that guide your awl and space it to make a perfect stitch line.

[TomE]

I agree that using an awl is fast and learning how to clamp the work so that your awling is consistent is just as important as how to juggle the awl and needles. And awling is fun!

[Tugadude]

16 hours ago, NDphung said:

If you have access to Instagram there is a recent post by "industrialconcepts" who makes stamping machines and many great leathercrafters share their irons-thread size they use (Peter Nitz, Carswell Leather, Mila Jito etc.)

Would be helpful if you could provide a link.  I tried to look them up on Instagram but was unsuccessful.  If they have helpful information it should be detailed here.

[NDphung]

2 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Would be helpful if you could provide a link.  I tried to look them up on Instagram but was unsuccessful.  If they have helpful information it should be detailed here.

https://www.instagram.com/industrialdesignconcept/

I hope this work sorry I am pretty bad using the different platform.

It is one of their latest post for a contest. In the comment section you get many leathercrafters describe their favorite combination and sometimes their journey and evolution. I found it very informative.

 

[Danne]

19 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

yup awls take practice and skill. chisels don't that's why folks rely on them so much, me included.

When you learn to use an awl you take about an hours chisel work from the equation, it becomes simpler and faster to use only an awl and two needles.

Another thing i found is if your clam is built correctly you can use the edge of the clam as a guide for your awl Check out an antique glovers clam sometime its built with notches along the edge that guide your awl and space it to make a perfect stitch line.

Most of my wallets have their exteriors punched before glued to lining, and after fully assembled holes are opened with an awl. And it's not as hard as many people believe. I did struggle a lot at first, but when I finally learned how to sharpen my awl correctly, it didn't take that much practice to get straight holes. A wine cork on the back side can be very helpful to avoid distorting the leather. And if someone wonder why I use an awl for wallets, the reason is because i prefer stitching from the exterior side, and interior leather will have skived edges so punching all the way through is not possible (not with good results)

[Tugadude]

24 minutes ago, NDphung said:

https://www.instagram.com/industrialdesignconcept/

I hope this work sorry I am pretty bad using the different platform.

It is one of their latest post for a contest. In the comment section you get many leathercrafters describe their favorite combination and sometimes their journey and evolution. I found it very informative.

 

Thanks.  It is the first in the items on the page.  I says "The Perfect Stitching:  What Does It Require"