Chisel Size for Pocket Projects?

[chuck123wapati]

51 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

Chuck, there are some who turn their noses up at stitching chisels, perhaps not in this thread, but in others I've read.  So that's what I am addressing with that comment.  

All tools have limitations and I have never said an awl is unnecessary, not by a long shot.  I have several and when I need them, I use them.  And they work great.  

I went back and read what I posted in this thread and I don't see any reason for someone to be offended.  If I'm wrong, I sincerely apologize as that wasn't my intent.  

 

to be anti chisel, anti awl, etc... would be anti tool which is kind of hypocritical considering the amount of tools we use in the craft. its just silly.

I wasn't offended my friend, by anyone's comments. just trying to clarify things a bit. And i have read those articles as well, there will always be people who consider their way of doing things as the only way to do things. Many people can and do sew with an awl exclusively and have mastered the process, they become purists in a sewing sense and rightly so I guess i haven't got that good and probably never will. They see using a chisel as adding steps and unnecessary time while beginners see them as saving time and frustration.  I still respect their right and ability to do so because i want to be that good too all the while trying to give sound accurate advise to folks who are just learning as i still am after many years.

[SUP]

As a newbie, for whom everything is still a learning experience I would like to put in a few words.

However the holes are made, pricking irons and awls, diamond chisels, etc. they are finally hidden by the thread. So it matters not a whit whether the holes are slits, angled diamond shaped holes or tunnels, for all I know. As long as the stitching is good, the holes are completely hidden.

Coming to how the holes are made; yes pricking irons and awls are the traditional way but now, there are diamond chisels  available to make this easier. So no reason not to use them, especially for us newbies because learning saddle stitching faster means that we can get onto projects we can be proud of instead of feeling frustrated because we could not stitch well. As a newbie, I am relieved that we have diamond chisels; I tried and could not do the pricking iron and awl method - awful lines. Maybe I will learn one day but until then, diamond chisels work well.

Coming to the brand to use. Yes the expensive ones would be wonderful to have but cheaper ones work well too. When newbies have so many things to buy, expensive chisels are not needed, in my opinion. I know because mine are cheap ones off Amazon and they work fine, not just adequate, fine. I use up to 6-7 oz leather and even through my newbie mistakes when I forgot a board and the tines went blunt, a little sharpening was all that was needed. So when I see newbies being advised to buy 'the best they can afford' or expensive brands, may I gently remind that with so much to buy, that is not necessary to start with or even later if not needed? 

When on a limited budget, it makes sense to choose where to economize. I was clueless when I bought an Amazon leathercraft kit but it was the best thing I did. I received everything  I need, from a cutting mat to 2 other boards for pounding and for use under chisels, from snaps to rivets, to thread to knives,  bevelers and I don't remember what else. All i needed to buy was a set of diamond chisels ($10 on Amazon) and I was set. So I got everything needed for basic leatherwork for about $100.00. Not the best brands, naturally but they all work fine.

 Since then, I have bought the same brand chisels, 3mm and 5mm. Inexpensive and effective. Will I buy Kevin Lee ones some day? Maybe. Maybe not. They are like designer handbags to me. Ordinary inexpensive bags carry my things as well, so why spend on designer ones? Not like shoes, where cheap ones pinch. So that is the difference.

There are many inexpensive brands of chisels which are fine. Whether chisels, or pricking irons or awls. Maybe they should be considered as well. Being able to afford does not mean spending blindly, in my opinion.

Just my two bits of what I learnt as a newbie. Hope I did not offend with anything I said here.

[Tugadude]

Holes have an impact on the finished look of stitching.  Round holes, diamond-shaped holes and slits all can impact the final appearance.  Along with the configuration of the hole (shape), the stitching technique has an impact.  

Nigel Armitage showed on a video that even with round holes it is possible to get a slight slant in your stitching.  Using the proper technique of course.  

The holes do matter.  And while on that subject, another thing that is sometimes mistaken is the technique used to sharpen awls.  I'm sure there is difference of opinion, but most of what I've read and seen indicates that the point of the awl should be very sharp, but the remainder of the blade not so much.  Polished is a better term, for the portion of the blade that extends from the tip and widens out.  The idea being the awl is sharp so that penetration is made easy, but then after that the slit is stretched and not cut.  This provides ample space for the thread and then the leather can close up around the thread.  An awl blade which is sharp all the way around will slice the leather, creating a slit as wide as the awl itself is.  That hole will remain and not close up as it would had it been stretched and not cut.  Details matter, and this is one area that I think is sometimes misunderstood.  

Personally, I like very slanted stitching and I try to achieve that the best I can on both the front and the rear of my projects.  There are techniques which can help, such as the "casting" technique.  Another thing that affects the final result is the overall thickness of leather and the tension you put on the threads.  

I see some kits such as wallet kits that come pre-punched with round holes.  Those tend to result in flat stitches, so they're not for me.  I don't use kits anyway, but my point is regarding the round holes, not the fact it is a kit.  

Many here like to use stitching grooves and those also impact the final look.  It can cause stitching to flatten out a little.  Not saying it looks bad, it doesn't, but it just does.  There are examples of this all over this forum if folks want to look.

Hey, we're all supposed to be learning.  I know I still am.  And I hope to for a long time.  

Edit:  I also should say that folks who want to see a number of stitching chisels and pricking irons in use should check out Nigel Armitage's videos on YouTube.  He does a thorough review on all of the popular ones and you can clearly see the impact they all have on the finished stitch.  Some are great, some are OK and there are things you can do to get the best out of all of them.  

I think he's done at least 20 different videos on chisels/irons.  Here's a recent one.

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Tugadude

[SUP]

I was not very clear in my earlier post and if I mislead in any way, I apologize.

I agree. Slanted holes work the best. They look beautiful from both sides and the narrow cut keeps the thread more snugly than diamond cuts, although the leather does close around the thread in the latter as well. The pre-cut round holes, the worst. I learnt subsequently that with round holes, slanted stitches are possible with casting - as you @Tugadudesaid the Nigel Armitage video.

I have seen all the tutorials here, thank you to all the experienced people here who have guided so well about that - and I have learnt one thing. It is the technique which finally matters. Technique of saddle-stitching. 

Once experienced, as I see with all the experienced leatherworkers here, the type of holes do not matter AS much. They know the way to stitch, cast or not and so on and make beautiful items  That is what I meant when I said the type of holes do not matter - not to disparage but to say that there are ways to get around whatever the shape and direction of the shape of the holes, once saddle-stitching is understood - should have explained that way.

About Awls. I thought sharpening them was a difficult matter too, until I read a thread here which explained exactly how to do it. Was it you who explained @Tugadudeor someone else? I'm sorry I do not remember but It was so clearly explained, as you have done here too.

And finally about the price. In many threads, newbies are advised by some, not all, to buy either 'the best money can buy' or ' the best affordable' or specific expensive brands. That is good advise but sometimes, it is a bit premature. This was mainly my point in the earlier post. At the start, I too was obsessed with chisels which is why I commented. I wanted 'good' french chisels and as is my habit, explored brands and was undecided, until Uttam praised my work once and, looking at it with new eyes, I realized I was getting the results I wanted with my inexpensive, diamond chisels, easily at that. That is why I spoke up about not needing expensive chisels. 

One thing; when I said 'kit' I did not mean  ready made kits of cut leather with a few tools, to just stitch together to make purses etc. I meant the leatherwork kit which only contains all the tools for leatherworking. If you enter the words' leatherworking kit' you find dozens on Amazon.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by SUP

[Tugadude]

37 minutes ago, SUP said:

One thing; when I said 'kit' I did not mean  ready made kits of cut leather with a few tools, to just stitch together to make purses etc. I meant the leatherwork kit which only contains all the tools for leatherworking. If you enter the words' leatherworking kit' you find dozens on Amazon.  

 

I understood that.  My comment was about the kits that many outlets sell where the holes are already provided.  They tend to be round, and to me, that limits what can be done with them.  

[SUP]

I agree  Some of the patterns we get online are the same, but I use a diamond chisel instead of the punch recommended. 

[fredk]

2 hours ago, SUP said:

However the holes are made, pricking irons and awls, diamond chisels, etc. they are finally hidden by the thread. So it matters not a whit whether the holes are slits, angled diamond shaped holes or tunnels, for all I know. As long as the stitching is good, the holes are completely hidden.

Not necessarily, the size of the hole must match the size of the thread and the size of the thread must match the size of the hole.

On this thread the tools we are discussing cut a slit in the leather, they do not remove any leather, but still if the slit is too big for the thread some of the slit will still be seen.Ideally the thread should fill or just over fill the hole. The leather will grip the thread and close over it.

Other tools which make holes for sewing remove leather and if the thread is too small the hole will always be seen. Even when the the thread is the same size as the hole the hole will be seen. The thread needs to be oversize to fill the hole as the leather will not close up to grip the thread unless it is forced to do so

On these wee coin purses I use a punch to make the sewing holes. It removes leather, about 0.8mm diam hole. I used 1mm waxed cord to sew. The thread is too big for the hole and needs tugged through. It hides the hole pretty well

On this Tandy kit the pre-punched holes are too big for the thread or lace  and the sewing holes still show and also give an uneven 'jagged' looking sewing line(photo picture taken from an Amazon listing) 

 

 

 

 

[Tugadude]

Just to be clear, this is the sort of kit I'm talking about.  The holes come pre-punched.

[SUP]

@fredk I really put my foot in my mouth, didn't I? 

I  meant when I said that the holes are hidden, about the lovely work on this site, from experienced leathercraftsmen who know how to select the correct thread and of course the holes are hidden. Something a newbie aspires for. 

You have explained it here so clearly. Should have put it all into words but then I thought, too long, so did not. 

And I agree about ready-made kits. Have never tried them though  - it feels like cheating when everything is provided ready cut and punched. I see that the holes remain.

 

 

[SUP]

@Tugadude Yes I see. Everything ready and, like I mentioned to @fredk I feel its like cheating when everything is cut and punched and ready to sew.

Finally, nothing quire like a pattern,  piece of leather, some cutting tools and chisels to work with. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by SUP