Which would you choose: Pfaff 145 H4-6/01 or Singer 211u166KA?

[SewCool]

Hey everyone, I am new here and to sewing in general. I hope this is the right place to put such posts. I have learned an incredible amount from this forum over the past week. I am trying to buy a machine this week and I am pretty limited to what's available in my area and in my budget. I plan on mostly sewing cordura, webbing, and lightweight leather. I do want the capability to do heavier leather though (considering the investment). I am in Brooklyn, NY.

I have narrowed it down to two machines (obviously listed in title):

• Pfaff 145 H4 6/01 (comes with Servo, Table, thread stand etc.) $750
• Singer 211u166KA (No motor, no table, no accessories) $700

They are both priced higher than I'd like, especially the Singer with out the motor or table. They both have Reverse. Pfaff H4 obviously has the higher step. Pfaff is German and Singer is Japanese (although is this particular 211 manufactured in Japan still?) What are some other specs I should look out for? 

If cost was not a factor, which would you choose? Can anyone with experience chime in on their overall thoughts on these different models. Any help is greatly appreciated as I'm having trouble finding any more info on these specific sub-models. Thanks

Also, what do you all think about the prices?

Andrew

Edited November 2, 2022 by SewCool
Add one question.

[kgg]

28 minutes ago, SewCool said:

If cost was not a factor, which would you choose?

Neither. My reasons are:

1. PFAFF: Parts / accessory costs for the Pfaff are in general more costly and in my area not an overly popular brand name which makes it more difficult to resell down the road. Price also seems high but that will depend on your area.

2. Singer: The price of the machine is high particularly when you add in the cost of a table and a servo motor. A servo motor will probably run around $150 US and a used table probably another $100 so the machine would cost around $1000 US. Also without the machine mounted in a table how can you really tell if it is in good running condition????

I would suggest going to a industrial sewing machine dealer with what you want to sew and see what they can offer in both a new machine and a used one.

kgg

[suzelle]

If cost was not a factor, I'd get the Singer. Your chances of finding parts that fit is better than they would be if you got the Pfaff. I have to say though, I do agree with kgg that the price is too high on both machines. Probably double the price I'd pay on those. If they were both in excellent cosmetic condition with servo motors and tables, I might pay what they were asking.

[SewCool]

@suzelle @kgg While I agree with both of you, this is the great state of New York we're talking about here. People happily $9 for a half gallon of milk. There is one industrial machine supplier that I have been able to find, in Manhattan. He is charging $1350 + tax for a Juki 563. Can anyone comment on the actual machines?

 

[kgg]

8 hours ago, SewCool said:

There is one industrial machine supplier that I have been able to find, in Manhattan. He is charging $1350 + tax for a Juki 563. Can anyone comment on the actual machines?

The Juki brand of machines are a really good machines which most of the clones are copied after and parts/ accessories are easily found at reasonable prices. The $1350 price is way over what I typically see here in Ontario for Juki 563's. which usually go for between $580 US ($800 cad) and $725 ($1000 cad). Once you get into the $1300 usd plus price range you would better off ordering a new machine like a Consew 206RB-5 with a table and servo motor online for $1449 plus shipping from a dealer like Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (www.tolindsewmach.com/consew-206rb.html).

kgg

[chrisash]

Dont rush things, take your time and a good machine will turn up check out ebay and other sites for secondhand machines, try a few other forums for upholstery sewing machines like these two, good for 90 to 138 bonded nylon thread and walking foot

Check out 

 

[CowboyBob]

13 hours ago, SewCool said:

@suzelle @kgg While I agree with both of you, this is the great state of New York we're talking about here. People happily $9 for a half gallon of milk. There is one industrial machine supplier that I have been able to find, in Manhattan. He is charging $1350 + tax for a Juki 563. Can anyone comment on the actual machines?

 

Lookup Vais Sewing Machine,he's in Brooklyn 1129 McDonald Av,that Pfaff is a better machine that has a higher lift .Some of the screws & other parts have been discontinued for the 211 & it has a small handwheel on it that makes it hard to slow down.

[Talisien]

If you can, take your time and find the machine that really suits your needs.

I am bias but have found that Singer has good parts support over the long term and plenty of on-line resources to help you problem solve. 

With a keen eye and some research you might just spot 'the one' for a better start price.  

[AlainaZ]

I second looking up Joe Vais. He's a master with machines and one of the most trustworthy people in the business that I know. (This based on my experience looking for mechanics to supplement my machine work at Parsons. We tried about half a dozen people and Joe was our go-to)

[arjon]

Quote

Can anyone comment on the actual machines?

 

I can't comment on the Pfaff, but I do own a Singer u166, and for my purposes it's great. I sew mostly pack fabric and thin chrome tan leather. But that price is pretty absurd, imo. I got mine with a table/motor/thread stand for $350CAD, although the machine desperately needed a deep clean and the table needed refinishing. I bought a servo for it from Techsew, some binders off Amazon, refinished and painted the table, and I think my cost all-in is around $500.  

I do love the Singer, but I wouldn't pay 700US for it with no table/motor. I'd keep waiting for the right deal to come up.  

 

 

[suzelle]

On 11/2/2022 at 6:40 PM, SewCool said:

@suzelle @kgg While I agree with both of you, this is the great state of New York we're talking about here. People happily $9 for a half gallon of milk. There is one industrial machine supplier that I have been able to find, in Manhattan. He is charging $1350 + tax for a Juki 563. Can anyone comment on the actual machines?

 

SewCool,

I get it! Sounds like you want and need a machine soon. I'll admit, I have paid more for (1) machine that I purchased. I was unable to find the exact model I was looking for locally and I searched for years. There were a few that popped up, but I missed out on a couple really great deals because somebody else pulled the trigger faster than I did. So when one finally came up and I was ready to run and pick it up, I paid double the price I was planning on paying for it. It didn't come with a table or a motor, but I had those parts already, so not a big deal. I got a machine sold to me by a retired Industrial machine mechanic and it looked to be in fantastic condition. I was able to run it before testing and Seller guaranteed it. So that was worth it to me!

I think you are smart to consider purchasing a Juki as you mentioned above. In the past 15 years I've bought more Juki machines than any other name. So I guess I'd have to say that overall, Juki is my favorite! I currently own six Juki machines.

If you have the time to just wait and watch, I agree with others that the right machine is going to come your way. Good luck!!!