Applying Vaseline/Lanolin to the flesh side of leather

[simo289]

I am experimenting with different way of softening veg tan leather, hopefully to a nice floppiness, mainly using vaseline and lanolin (seperately and in mixtures).

 

Having read around about various different leather conditoners, commercial and homemade, I'm having a really hard time knowing whether I should try applying it to the flesh side of the leather. It soaks quite nicely into the top grain, espcially with a little heat persuasion, but would it do the same on the flesh side? WIll it make any difference? Will it ruin the leather?

 

I'll probably try on one of the scrap pieces I'm already working with, but wondered if anyone had any words of wisdon to share...

Edited February 6, 2023 by simo289
Typo

[tsunkasapa]

Vaseline is a petroleum product, I wouldn't use it on leather.

[Tugadude]

If it absorbs into the outer surface, then it should penetrate the flesh side and probably even more easily.  Veg Tan leather is like a sponge.  Some companies tumble leather in order to soften it.  The way I understand it, it is like a huge clothes dryer.  The heat can change the surface of the leather from what I understand, giving it a little pebbly texture at times.

What is this leather going to be for?  The lanolin or Vaseline will make the flesh side different and depending on how much you use, it might get gooey or tacky.  I wouldn't use Vaseline at all personally.  

Is ordering a different veg tan leather a possibility or are you wanting to use up what you have?  

There's a limit to what you can make it do.

 

 

[TomE]

“Hot oiling” is apparently a thing with some folks who restore western saddles. Neatsfoot oil will turn good tack to sticky mush if you apply too much, like dunking in oil for an extended period. The effect is permanent from what I’ve seen. 

[Tugadude]

2 minutes ago, TomE said:

“Hot oiling” is apparently a thing with some folks who restore western saddles. Neatsfoot oil will turn good tack to sticky mush if you apply too much, like dunking in oil for an extended period. The effect is permanent from what I’ve seen. 

To what degree does it dry out?  And what will the flesh side be like?  Would you want to put it against your skin?  I don't know what this person wants it for but he lists reenactment under his username, so it might be for wearables.

[TomE]

18 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

To what degree does it dry out?  And what will the flesh side be like?  Would you want to put it against your skin?  I don't know what this person wants it for but he lists reenactment under his username, so it might be for wearables.

Over-oiled tack develops a sticky/gummy feel on the surface, and the temper is mushy - it loses shape.  The only thing it solves is providing an excuse to buy new tack.  The "nice floppiness" that @simo289 is looking for would likely be achieved by using high quality veg tan that is appropriately oiled and conditioned then allowed to break in.

[Tugadude]

11 minutes ago, TomE said:

Over-oiled tack develops a sticky/gummy feel on the surface, and the temper is mushy - it loses shape.  The only thing it solves is providing an excuse to buy new tack.  The "nice floppiness" that @simo289 is looking for would likely be achieved by using high quality veg tan that is appropriately oiled and conditioned then allowed to break in.

Thanks!  I think the OP needs to find some available leather which meets his needs.

[simo289]

Thanks for all your input folks!

For context, I am making fantasty style maps and I want them to be nice and supple so they can easily be rolled up etc. I'm using 2mm (5-6 oz) veg tan.

 

I tried rubbing both the lanolin and vaseline into the flesh side of my test pieces and it made a huge difference! The lanolin definitely made for a better surface texture and suppleness than the straight vaseline or the mixtures I've tried.

 

@Tugadude that's interesting! I'm now wondering if I can jury rig something similar, maybe without the heat... It may well come to having to buy more leather (oh no...) specifically for this project

@TomE I've read/heard a lot about oiling for tack etc, but I'm trying to avoid too much colour change or darkening that seems to come with those techniques and products

Edited February 7, 2023 by simo289
Typos

[Tugadude]

1 hour ago, simo289 said:

Thanks for all your input folks!

For context, I am making fantasty style maps and I want them to be nice and supple so they can easily be rolled up etc. I'm using 2mm (5-6 oz) veg tan.

 

I tried rubbing both the lanolin and vaseline into the flesh side of my test pieces and it made a huge difference! The lanolin definitely made for a better surface texture and suppleness than the straight vaseline or the mixtures I've tried.

 

@Tugadude that's interesting! I'm now wondering if I can jury rig something similar, maybe without the heat... It may well come to having to buy more leather (oh no...) specifically for this project

@TomE I've read/heard a lot about oiling for tack etc, but I'm trying to avoid too much colour change or darkening that seems to come with those techniques and products

Contact a leather supplier that offers splitting services.  They can split veg tan leather down to a very thin condition.  I have some .75 to 1 ounce veg that I think would be perfect for what you want.  Then it is a matter of coloring it to look like old parchment or whatever.  You can crinkle it and flatten it out to put some character marks into the leather.  I'm sure someone in England would be happy to help you.  Maybe Abbey?  Other local will know.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, simo289 said:

Thanks for all your input folks!

For context, I am making fantasty style maps and I want them to be nice and supple so they can easily be rolled up etc. I'm using 2mm (5-6 oz) veg tan.

 

I tried rubbing both the lanolin and vaseline into the flesh side of my test pieces and it made a huge difference! The lanolin definitely made for a better surface texture and suppleness than the straight vaseline or the mixtures I've tried.

 

@Tugadude that's interesting! I'm now wondering if I can jury rig something similar, maybe without the heat... It may well come to having to buy more leather (oh no...) specifically for this project

@TomE I've read/heard a lot about oiling for tack etc, but I'm trying to avoid too much colour change or darkening that seems to come with those techniques and products

you should consider some of the thinner hides that were traditionally used for writing and maps and such. sheepskin , goat skin, calf skin. Deer is another good supple leather that could be used. 

[tsunkasapa]

Look into vg tan sheep. Muc thinner and far more supple than beef. You may want to 'break it in' a bit, but I use it for linin holsters and it is very 'bendable/foldable'.

Or kid skin.

[Tugadude]

I don't think you want the material to be too floppy.  Thin veg tan should roll up very nicely and can resemble an old map.

[simo289]

I had a play with some 2-3 oz that I have, but it's far too thin to take a good tooling impression, my swivel knife cuts almost all the way through! Obviously, that isn't how maps were done, but I like the idea of it having a bit more tactility than ink.

[doubleh]

My personal opinion is that vaseline has place on leather. You can fix your swivel knife problem with simply applying less downward pressure while cutting.

[Tugadude]

3 hours ago, simo289 said:

I had a play with some 2-3 oz that I have, but it's far too thin to take a good tooling impression, my swivel knife cuts almost all the way through! Obviously, that isn't how maps were done, but I like the idea of it having a bit more tactility than ink.

This is one instance I think where a laser would come in handy.  If you took a piece of 1 oz. veg tan and had it laser-engraved and then dyed to suit your purposes it would look fantastic.  Roughen it up some to give it the look of actual aging and you're set.

[chuck123wapati]

4 hours ago, simo289 said:

I had a play with some 2-3 oz that I have, but it's far too thin to take a good tooling impression, my swivel knife cuts almost all the way through! Obviously, that isn't how maps were done, but I like the idea of it having a bit more tactility than ink.

i cant help but ask if you know how maps were done why are you trying to do them differently? If for one of those reenactment things someone will surely call you on it. 

[fredk]

19 hours ago, simo289 said:

I had a play with some 2-3 oz that I have, but it's far too thin to take a good tooling impression, my swivel knife cuts almost all the way through! Obviously, that isn't how maps were done, but I like the idea of it having a bit more tactility than ink.

Depending on the era and the need ancient maps were drawn on vellum, parchment or paper using graphite or waterproof ink

If yours is to be a fantasy map, will it be like a basic treasure seeking map?

An idea; rather than cut into the leather, cut very thin leather (about 0.5mm or less) and apply that to the surface of your thin leather base. Long thin strips for roads and rivers, shapes for lakes or forests, AAA shapes for mountains, all coloured/dyed appropriate colours, Shouldn't take any longer to glue the parts on than it would cutting and tooling it

[tsunkasapa]

23 hours ago, simo289 said:

I had a play with some 2-3 oz that I have, but it's far too thin to take a good tooling impression, my swivel knife cuts almost all the way through! Obviously, that isn't how maps were done, but I like the idea of it having a bit more tactility than ink.

Don't use the swivel knife. Just bevel the lines or use a modeling spoon. 

[hotleatherworlds]

I would never apply petroleum product on leather as it can damage my natural leather but instead use a high quality leather conditioner or specific product. 

[TomE]

54 minutes ago, hotleatherworlds said:

I would never apply petroleum product on leather as it can damage my natural leather but instead use a high quality leather conditioner or specific product. 

I would agree about avoiding petroleum products for my work.  As a point of information Al and Ann Stohlman mention in their Encyclopedia of Saddle Making that they used a lot of neatsfoot compound (mix of neatsfoot oil and petroleum based oils) without any bad effects, recognizing that pure neatsfoot oil is best but expensive.  Leather is exposed to a whole lot of unnatural chemicals during the tanning and currying processes, so for me it's more about chemistry than nature. 

Here's an old monograph on the chemistry of leather.  I don't think the process has changed much in 70 yrs.

Phillips-1954-THE CHEMISTRY OF LEATHER.pdf

[Dwight]

A 50 / 50 bees wax and neatsfoot oil mixture works wonders for softening veg tan leather . . . and vaseline should only be put on winter boots when going out into the snow . . . and you really don't care how they wind up looking . . . so your feet stay dry.  That is the ONLY use for vaseline and leather together.

I've used the combo it on shoes, belts, billfolds, all sorts of stuff . . . just be careful and don't go crazy with it.

Once you've added the mixture to the leather rubbed it in and let it soak overnight . . .  use a thin dowel . . . 1/4 inch or so . . . lay it on the leather . . . roll the leather over it . . . (not around it) . . . both with flesh up and with flesh down . . . and you will probably really like the results.

May God bless,

Dwight

[YinTx]

Find some dry milled veg tan, you can tool it, and use laser on it also.  Will not require much leather conditioner at all, and will be soft and easy to roll up.  

[ScottWolf]

On 2/6/2023 at 3:56 AM, simo289 said:

I am experimenting with different way of softening veg tan leather, hopefully to a nice floppiness, mainly using vaseline and lanolin (seperately and in mixtures).

 

Having read around about various different leather conditoners, commercial and homemade, I'm having a really hard time knowing whether I should try applying it to the flesh side of the leather. It soaks quite nicely into the top grain, espcially with a little heat persuasion, but would it do the same on the flesh side? WIll it make any difference? Will it ruin the leather?

 

I'll probably try on one of the scrap pieces I'm already working with, but wondered if anyone had any words of wisdon to share...

The flesh side of leather will readily soak up anything you get on that side quicker than compared to the grain side. Which is why you want to be careful when dyeing, ask me how I know.

The ingredient in Vaseline that some find to be useful is mineral oil. The other ingredients in vaseline really are of no use for leather, but vaseline is cheap and you can get it in big tubs. The mineral oil in it can bring color back out of leather that has lightened up/faded and give leather a nice sheen, which is why it can be used as a "finishing" product more than a conditioning product. It's like using Armor all on your tires. They look shiny and new but it really doesnt do anything else useful for the tire. Some popular commercial leather conditioners use mineral oil in their product for this reason, it brings color back and makes things shiny.

 

Lanolin: if you're using the good stuff, its yellowish goo, it's pricey and has a strong sheep odor. Works great and restoring and softening leather but it takes several applications and if you use too much, you get that smell and some tackiness until the leather can fully absorb it. For what you are doing, its the better choice for accomplishing your goal.

[jrdunn]

According to the SDS for Vaseline Petroleum Jelly it is 100% petrolatum, no other ingredients. 

https://www.bettymills.com/product/MSDS/Vaseline Petroleum Jelly (1202753).pdf

Fiebing Aussie Leather Conditioner SDS says that it contains 59-72% petrolatum.  Yes, I would only use it for things that would be wet a lot.  JM2C.  Jim

https://www.springfieldleather.com/sds-sheets/Fiebings/Fiebings Aussie Conditioner.pdf