High school bull riding safety vest

[DonInReno]

I’m helping out a gal who is part of a well meaning group of parents sewing bull riding safety vests for what are essentially high school teams.   I’m not convinced the $100 vest they are patterning off of is worth a hoot, when just the raw materials of a good $300-$400 vest look to be quite a bit more than $100.   I supplied a machine to one of the gals that will sew 138, but I’d think a heavier thread is appropriate here.

From what I can gather it’s a chap weight leather exterior, EVA foam layer, spectra shield penetration resistant layer and heavy synthetic liner (courdura?).  Big zippers with 2” wide Velcro over the zippers.   The specifics I can’t seem to pin down.

If anyone can give me a little guidance and direction I’m all ears.

Edited April 30, 2023 by DonInReno

[Handstitched]

Can't help you there, but what protects ' the bits underneath '  on the rider?  Always wondered that. Hate to have a horn go where it shouldn't go ? 

Quite an impressive pic btw. 

HS 

[kgg]

10 hours ago, DonInReno said:

From what I can gather it’s a chap weight leather exterior, EVA foam layer, spectra shield penetration resistant layer and heavy synthetic liner (courdura?).

I found this article which may help. From Cowboy Way ( www.cowboyway.com/What/BullVest.htm )"What Is A Bull Riding Vest Made Of?" and  go down to the section " Inside A Bull Riding Vest ". I did find some Ballistic Spectra Fabric Plain Weave 215 Denier 2.6oz/88gsm on Composite Envisions (comcompositeenvisions.com) at ( compositeenvisions.com/product/ballistic-spectra-fabric-plain-weave-215d-2-6oz-88gsm/ ). How thick the fabric needs too be is needed to provided adequate protection is the question. Probably very similar to what would be needed for a stab proof / resistant vest. As a note the stab proof vest and bullet proof vests may not be legal to own / use in your province or state.

kgg

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by kgg

[DonInReno]

4 hours ago, Handstitched said:

Always wondered that.

Lol

4 hours ago, kgg said:

How thick the fabric needs too be is needed to provided adequate protection is the question.

Thanks for the article - every article seems to add a little bit of new detail.

I have to keep reminding myself the vest is primarily to distribute blunt force over a larger area.  Apparently the Spectra Shield material is very good at resisting deformation when being pushed against, much like a hard plastic, but is also very tear resistant whereas a simple hard plastic would fail with a lot of force from the edge of a hoof or even a blunt horn.  Like protective gear in many sports, it makes sense to have stiffer more protective vests for younger riders.

It seems the outer shell material only has to hold the vest together for impacts, but should rip apart if hung up on a horn or hoof, so the Velcro between front and back, and over shoulders makes sense, and makes it adjustable for different riders.  The outer material doesn’t affect the performance, Cordura or canvas duck fabrics work fine and leather is just more durable with normal wear and tear and looks better.

Inner liners on the best vests are often a soft synthetic mesh and it seems denim weight fabric is a good low cost alternative that would hold up well to teenagers.

 

 

[Sheilajeanne]

4 hours ago, Handstitched said:

Can't help you there, but what protects ' the bits underneath '  on the rider?  Always wondered that. Hate to have a horn go where it shouldn't go ? 

Quite an impressive pic btw. 

HS 

That's a very good question!  I remember watching a program about matadors in Spain. They mentioned that matadors most often get gored on the upper thighs. They even showed a picture of an older matador's numerous scars in that area... 

I imagine wearing a jock strap wouldn't work for bull riding [ouch!] but you'd think they could provide something to protect the area below the belt.

My cousin wears special pants with - I think - some sort of Kevlar woven fabric in them when cutting trees with a chainsaw. I suppose a bull rider could do the same

[doubleh]

Ah, bull riding, one of the dumber things a person can compete in. I have a brother-in- law that was a rough and tough bull rider in his young years and he has been paying the price for years. He has had multiple surgeries on both his ankles and now both have been fused solid. He even learned how to ride a wheel chair for sometime but is now able to hobble along a little bit. Got another that was bronc rider and he is in about as bad condition plus he had his head busted all to pieces once.

Edited April 30, 2023 by doubleh

[fredk]

1 hour ago, doubleh said:

Ah, bull riding, one of the dumber things a person can compete in. . . . 

Do competitors in this get an automatic Bye entry in the Darwin Awards competition?

[bruce johnson]

Don, yes I think a heavier thread would be better than the #138. I’m glad you used the term “well meaning”. Realistically, is a bull riding vest the place to cut costs?? They might be saving $100-200 for the kid but if there is a failure vs tested and proven designs made with materials and experience  that’s hard to justify. 

[Klara]

And let's not forget the possibility of losing insurance cover when using unauthorised equipment or even being sued by the insurance company if you supply vests for kids other than your own...

[Handstitched]

21 hours ago, Sheilajeanne said:

They mentioned that matadors most often get gored on the upper thighs. They even showed a picture of an older matador's numerous scars in that area... 

Just about every man would shed a tear or two at  the sight of their ' manhood'  being gored    OUCH!!!  

Hernia is bad enough

HS

[DonInReno]

Looking at the freedom of movement and attention to chest and spine protection in modern motocross gear, I can’t help thinking rodeo gear is in its infancy and will adopt a lot of the designs eventually.

The flood of Chinese made body protection for sports of all kinds is great on one hand because it’s very affordable, but often lacks any ratings and is hard to determine actual level of protection.   Many states require ASTM rated equestrian safety vests for any bull riding events.   These can be quite affordable, but a lot of these might get laughed at for being non-western, and a number of them are clearly lacking.  In many rural western communities you won’t find anyone scrutinizing vests as long as they have one.   

I don’t think I can offer any better advice to the parent making their own gear - it’s very much a trade off between protection and mobility - and what they make will only work if the kid will wear it.

I’ve looked at over 100 different vests and the large number of different designs is interesting.   Some are just for looks, some are mainly for protection and are surely very stiff and bulky, and some are even inflatable.     Many are built like a soft bullet proof vest with front zipper, and some get all the protection from molded lexan plates.  Some that didn’t seem all that protective were a series of small foam pads held together with thin nylon mesh on both sides - a hoof would easily split that design wide open.

About six years ago I watched a coworker free fall, flat on his stomach about 10’ and bounce off a concrete floor - luckily it was the middle of winter and his work clothes and heavy jacket cushioned his body pretty well, but it took a few minutes to understand how he landed face first and didn’t have any facial injuries - turned out the bill of his baseball cap hit the concrete first and cushioned the head so well he never lost consciousness and didn’t even have a bloody nose - If something bad happens it doesn’t hurt to be lucky! Lol

[Handstitched]

7 hours ago, DonInReno said:

Looking at the freedom of movement and attention to chest and spine protection in modern motocross gear, I can’t help thinking rodeo gear is in its infancy and will adopt a lot of the designs eventually.

Perhaps similar designs or materials  can be utilised for breast plates for hunting dogs ( wild bore etc.)  I have refused to make breast plates( or any other protective gear)   as I simply don't want to be responsible for someones dog if something goes wrong, let alone the legal implications. 

HS

[fredk]

On 5/1/2023 at 8:01 AM, Klara said:

And let's not forget the possibility of losing insurance cover when using unauthorised equipment or even being sued by the insurance company if you supply vests for kids other than your own...

I've been following this thread and certain postings, such as the one I've just quoted, reminded me of certain things

23 years ago I started on the leather crafting raft ride. It was because I and #1 son had joined our local SCA (Society of Creative Anachronism), then wifey and sons #2 and #3 and #1 dottir also joined. I could not afford to buy all the leather items for all of us so I bought in leather and made it all. I must have been reasonable at it because our head guy asked me to make 20 sets of arm & leg guards (2 guards for arms and 2 guards for legs per set)

The SCA normally play with foam weapons but our group wanted to start using real ( called 'live' ) blunt steel swords so special thick leather arm & leg guards were needed. I got the specs from SCA HQ, bought some moderately expensive leather from Le Prevo. 6mm thick black chrome tan plus necessary fittings. I made up 24 sets. SCA HQ heard about this and immediately banned the group from using the guards as they had not been either tested nor approved by HQ. Individually, I could use a set but not for live steel fighting. The group was only allowed to buy and use guards from an SCA HQ approved maker

I eventually sold about 4 sets to some sword fighters here who were not SCA. I still have all the rest of the sets. Some are completed with straps and buckles and some are not finished except cut to shape; like the shape of an archery arm bracer, only bigger, especially the leg guards. Some day I'll think of something to do with all cut and shaped leather. And I was naive and stupid back then; I never got money from any of the SCA pple for the guards sets or for the outlay on the leather -  'sure you'll get paid when we each buy a set from you' yeah, right!

These sports have spent years working with suppliers of safety equipment and insurance companies recognise this. Anything that hasn't been tested, even though it might meet or even surpass the specs will be frowned upon if not banned

I used to do sports fencing. Our masks had a fine heavy wire mesh over the face. Before every competition the masks were inspected; visually for rust or broken wires, then a special gun was used to fire a small steel ball-bearing into the mesh, in three different places, and the mesh was measured to see the result. Ideally there was nothing to see. One day a chap came along with his mask. He had replaced the mesh with a piece of bullet proof perspex. The ball bearing put a tiny stress mark on the perspex, but the mask was banned as it had not been pre-tested and approved by the governing body