CLSP - Chinese Leather Shoe Patcher

[ftnpenlvr2]

Hi Folks!

I started my leatherworking journey back around the start of the whole Covid thing, with a need to make a sheath for my ax.  Well, as long as I am making a sheath, I may as well make a strap to hang the ax from my shoulder.  Well, as long as I am doing that, I may as well decorate it, right?  Got a couple cheap tools, one fairly expensive stamp, some ReaLeather from the local craft shop, and start figuring it out.

Fast forward a few years, I have started my own custom and bespoke leather business, made purses, belts, coasters, etc, and eventually decided I wanted to add a sewing machine to the mix.  I liked the idea of the shoe patcher, largely because, being inexpensive, and simple enough even for this caveman to work on.  Of course, I went a bit overboard and kitted out with needles and thread. 

Thinner shoe leather, it behaves nicely. Doesn't seem to care veg or chrome tan.  It just sews without complaint, and it sews as straight as I do.  Tooled leather, the teeth on that foot will rip things up. If you file them down too much, it doesn't move the leather like it should.  Heat shrink tubing around the foot seems to help.  A 3d-printed plastic foot works great until it breaks.

Right now, I am trying to convince it to behave with a 140 needle and T135 thread on some Hermann Oak belt leather scraps.  I usually get about 5 stitches in before the thread frays above the needle, and it eventually breaks.  I suppose I have some filing to do in the needle driver to smooth SOMETHING out before that will behave better.  

Overall, I think I may have gotten a decent one.  In retrospect, I probably should have bought from Bantam, where they buy them, fettle them, and sell them in great working order - that may be a present to myself down the road.  If you like puzzles, and like to figure out "now why the *$)#( is it doing THAT??" I believe they can be a great tool, with some troubleshooting and work after winning the gamble of not getting a broken/incomplete one.  If you want more of a sure thing, Bantam does that hard work for you.  They're not $120 like on Amazon, but, they're also not a $1000+ Adler (and they don't sew like them either).

[chuck123wapati]

51 minutes ago, ftnpenlvr2 said:

Hi Folks!

I started my leatherworking journey back around the start of the whole Covid thing, with a need to make a sheath for my ax.  Well, as long as I am making a sheath, I may as well make a strap to hang the ax from my shoulder.  Well, as long as I am doing that, I may as well decorate it, right?  Got a couple cheap tools, one fairly expensive stamp, some ReaLeather from the local craft shop, and start figuring it out.

Fast forward a few years, I have started my own custom and bespoke leather business, made purses, belts, coasters, etc, and eventually decided I wanted to add a sewing machine to the mix.  I liked the idea of the shoe patcher, largely because, being inexpensive, and simple enough even for this caveman to work on.  Of course, I went a bit overboard and kitted out with needles and thread. 

Thinner shoe leather, it behaves nicely. Doesn't seem to care veg or chrome tan.  It just sews without complaint, and it sews as straight as I do.  Tooled leather, the teeth on that foot will rip things up. If you file them down too much, it doesn't move the leather like it should.  Heat shrink tubing around the foot seems to help.  A 3d-printed plastic foot works great until it breaks.

Right now, I am trying to convince it to behave with a 140 needle and T135 thread on some Hermann Oak belt leather scraps.  I usually get about 5 stitches in before the thread frays above the needle, and it eventually breaks.  I suppose I have some filing to do in the needle driver to smooth SOMETHING out before that will behave better.  

Overall, I think I may have gotten a decent one.  In retrospect, I probably should have bought from Bantam, where they buy them, fettle them, and sell them in great working order - that may be a present to myself down the road.  If you like puzzles, and like to figure out "now why the *$)#( is it doing THAT??" I believe they can be a great tool, with some troubleshooting and work after winning the gamble of not getting a broken/incomplete one.  If you want more of a sure thing, Bantam does that hard work for you.  They're not $120 like on Amazon, but, they're also not a $1000+ Adler (and they don't sew like them either).

don't flatten the foot polish it, like the expensive machines,  so the teeth aren't ragged, that is what trashes the leather. Also check the distance between the bobbin hook and your needle shunt, when the knot pulls into the hole it tightens the thread to much and the bobbin hook then pierces the thread and breaks it.

[CowboyBob]

3 hours ago, ftnpenlvr2 said:

Hi Folks!

I started my leatherworking journey back around the start of the whole Covid thing, with a need to make a sheath for my ax.  Well, as long as I am making a sheath, I may as well make a strap to hang the ax from my shoulder.  Well, as long as I am doing that, I may as well decorate it, right?  Got a couple cheap tools, one fairly expensive stamp, some ReaLeather from the local craft shop, and start figuring it out.

Fast forward a few years, I have started my own custom and bespoke leather business, made purses, belts, coasters, etc, and eventually decided I wanted to add a sewing machine to the mix.  I liked the idea of the shoe patcher, largely because, being inexpensive, and simple enough even for this caveman to work on.  Of course, I went a bit overboard and kitted out with needles and thread. 

Thinner shoe leather, it behaves nicely. Doesn't seem to care veg or chrome tan.  It just sews without complaint, and it sews as straight as I do.  Tooled leather, the teeth on that foot will rip things up. If you file them down too much, it doesn't move the leather like it should.  Heat shrink tubing around the foot seems to help.  A 3d-printed plastic foot works great until it breaks.

Right now, I am trying to convince it to behave with a 140 needle and T135 thread on some Hermann Oak belt leather scraps.  I usually get about 5 stitches in before the thread frays above the needle, and it eventually breaks.  I suppose I have some filing to do in the needle driver to smooth SOMETHING out before that will behave better.  

Overall, I think I may have gotten a decent one.  In retrospect, I probably should have bought from Bantam, where they buy them, fettle them, and sell them in great working order - that may be a present to myself down the road.  If you like puzzles, and like to figure out "now why the *$)#( is it doing THAT??" I believe they can be a great tool, with some troubleshooting and work after winning the gamble of not getting a broken/incomplete one.  If you want more of a sure thing, Bantam does that hard work for you.  They're not $120 like on Amazon, but, they're also not a $1000+ Adler (and they don't sew like them either).

If your on Facebook there's a group there call"China Leather Shoe Patcher" & "Made with China Leather Shoe Patcher" they both have alot of tips & tricks about these machines on there.

Edited May 5, 2023 by CowboyBob

[Garyak]

7 hours ago, ftnpenlvr2 said:

Hi Folks!

I started my leatherworking journey back around the start of the whole Covid thing, with a need to make a sheath for my ax.  Well, as long as I am making a sheath, I may as well make a strap to hang the ax from my shoulder.  Well, as long as I am doing that, I may as well decorate it, right?  Got a couple cheap tools, one fairly expensive stamp, some ReaLeather from the local craft shop, and start figuring it out.

Fast forward a few years, I have started my own custom and bespoke leather business, made purses, belts, coasters, etc, and eventually decided I wanted to add a sewing machine to the mix.  I liked the idea of the shoe patcher, largely because, being inexpensive, and simple enough even for this caveman to work on.  Of course, I went a bit overboard and kitted out with needles and thread. 

Thinner shoe leather, it behaves nicely. Doesn't seem to care veg or chrome tan.  It just sews without complaint, and it sews as straight as I do.  Tooled leather, the teeth on that foot will rip things up. If you file them down too much, it doesn't move the leather like it should.  Heat shrink tubing around the foot seems to help.  A 3d-printed plastic foot works great until it breaks.

Right now, I am trying to convince it to behave with a 140 needle and T135 thread on some Hermann Oak belt leather scraps.  I usually get about 5 stitches in before the thread frays above the needle, and it eventually breaks.  I suppose I have some filing to do in the needle driver to smooth SOMETHING out before that will behave better.  

Overall, I think I may have gotten a decent one.  In retrospect, I probably should have bought from Bantam, where they buy them, fettle them, and sell them in great working order - that may be a present to myself down the road.  If you like puzzles, and like to figure out "now why the *$)#( is it doing THAT??" I believe they can be a great tool, with some troubleshooting and work after winning the gamble of not getting a broken/incomplete one.  If you want more of a sure thing, Bantam does that hard work for you.  They're not $120 like on Amazon, but, they're also not a $1000+ Adler (and they don't sew like them either).

You made the wise choice buying where you did, and saved a chunk of change doing so. Switch over to a 136x17 needle system and time the needle bar up tight to the hook. Game changer. You’re not going to have success sewing leather on that thing with universal needles. Make sure you’re using the correct thread/needle combo. Slow is the key. All patchers are made for slow sewing, but especially that thing. The needle flex will send it everywhere but the needle throat. Made a lot of money with that sucker, and it still does. Stays in my rotation. 

[dikman]

Search for "chinese shoe patcher" (also known as a tinker's delight) there have been quite a few posts on here about them.

[Burkhardt]

On 5/5/2023 at 1:26 PM, Garyak said:

Switch over to a 136x17 needle system

Did you mean 135x16 or 17?

[ftnpenlvr2]

I have to say, with the size 140/22 needle running the thread above, the only way I could get this thing to sew on Hermann Oak 10-12-oz leather was if I soaked it first.  4-5 oz stuff it sails right through. whether it is veg or chrome tanned leather.  This makes sense to me, as, being a cobbler's sewing machine, that's really about as thick as I would expect shoe leather to be.

I had better luck (but still not great), after treating the belt leather with leather honey a few times, and really bending/working it around to soften it up.  After 5 slow stitches, I sped up, and got another dozen before the thread popped.  Re-threaded, and got another 5 slow stitches before it popped again.  Moral of the story, for now, is to not expect too much of it...  :-D

[Burkhardt]

I can do 2 pieces of 8-9 no problem after drilling out the 2 holes on the bobbin and needle plate using 207 thread. That;s having very little tension on the bottom and the top really firm. It's a art form getting the bottom arm the right distance and adjusting the hook needle clearance and the cams set right. It takes along time to get right but once you do it's easy to get the adjustments right.

[Acortez42093]

Hey sorry to bother you like this, but I’m sure this thread is dead. But, it’s the most recent I been in the worst luck with my recently purchased leather shoe patcher machine. I’ve watched every video imaginable. My mistake was buying It off Facebook marketplace. The man I bought it from said he had no issues and showed me a sample piece he said he’d stitched so I assumed it worked. I took it home and I’m having the worst luck. I can’t get the needle to pick up the bobbin thread. I’ve got the bottom gear bar flush. I have the needle bar about 1/4” inch sticking out and my needle doesn’t pierce my finger from the bottom. I’ve got my shuttle and that little housing facing right when the crank is at 3 o’clock, but I just can’t get it. And, when I first tried it the needle thread was making a literal mess under the shuttle and kept getting stuck. I’m sorry to bother but I’m really upset about it and wanted to know if it’s fixable. Idk what kinda tinkering this gentleman did before my purchase and I honestly regret it!

Edited August 24, 2023 by Wizcrafts
I removed the strange formatting and corrected missing punctuation marks.

[Burkhardt]

13 hours ago, Acortez42093 said:

Hey sorry to bother you like this but I’m sure this thread is dead but it’s the most recent I been in the worst luck with my recently purchased leather shoe patcher machine…I’ve watched every video imaginable …my mistake was buying It off Facebook marketplace the man I bought it from said he had no issues and showed me a sample piece he said he’d stitched so I assumed it worked I took it home and I’m having the worst luck I can’t get the needle to pick up the bobbin thread I’ve got the bottom gear bar flush I have the needle bar about 1/4” inch sticking out my needle doesn’t pierce my finger from the bottom I’ve got my shuttle and that little housing facing right when the crank is at 3 o’clock but I just can’t get it and when I first tried it the needle thread was making a literal mess under the shuttle and kept getting stuck I’m sorry to bother but I’m really upset about it and wanted to know if it’s fixable idk what kinda tinkering this gentleman did before my purchase and I honestly regret it…

First things first, turn off what ever you have set on your lettering and please use some punctuation, I can't tell what's a question and where one starts or ends.

[kgg]

6 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

First things first, turn off what ever you have set on your lettering and please use some punctuation, I can't tell what's a question and where one starts or ends.

I agree very difficult to follow.

We need some basic info like:

i) what size thread you are using?

ii) what size needle you are using?

iii) what way are you trying to thread the needle from. From your left to right or right to left.

iv) Which way do you have the needle inserted. With the long groove on the left or on the right?

v) what way is the thread coming of the bobbin, clockwise or counter clockwise?

A couple of photo's of your thread path from the spool of thread to the needle would be helpful.

kgg

 

[Wizcrafts]

12 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

First things first, turn off what ever you have set on your lettering and please use some punctuation, I can't tell what's a question and where one starts or ends.

I edited his post and removed the odd formatting. I also added missing periods and commas.

[Stuartbaffuto]

Hello Everyone,

This forum has been a really reassuring source of hints, tips and advice, if anyone is still watching this thread I have a request for suggestions on how to get a Chinese "tinker" machine sewing smoothly. I recently bought from Robin Industry their modified version, RC-32-4A http://robinindustry.com/product/275.html, of the classic Chinese Patcher for sewing insole to midsole.

Materials wise I'm not using leather but a 1-2mm cellulose fibreboard sewn to 3mm natural rubber / para / caoutchouc midsole.

The main issue is the top thread is not always picked up when the bobbin cover is on (irritatingly with no bobbin cover the shuttle picks up the thread fine, even when I pull it tight against the needle), and sometimes breaks/is worn through when the bobbin/shuttle plate is on, despite a constant tendency for the top thread to form small (2-3mm) loops on the underside of the workpiece. The machine struggles to pull the workpiece through (due to thread tension/knots I think) despite the presser foot being sufficient to pull through a workpiece without thread.

To aid assistance here are my answers to KGG's questions:

i) what size thread you are using? I'm using Barbour & Sons (now owned by Coats but I guess they have some stock left over or are continuing it as a heritage brand) linen 18/5 (unwaxed) thread top and bottom. I've also tried thinner thread, down to a Tex 20, both top and bottom and in combination with thicker top thread, but still no luck with that getting picked up consistently by the shuttle hook

ii) what size needle you are using? Factory supplied 45x1 / DDx1 / 26/230 needle (c. 62 mm long and c. 2mm shank, round profile shank)

iii) what way are you trying to thread the needle from. From your left to right or right to left. Left to right

iv) Which way do you have the needle inserted. With the long groove on the left or on the right? Long groove on left

v) what way is the thread coming of the bobbin, clockwise or counter clockwise? Counter clockwise, but it's coming out of the hole where the spring tensioner screw was because it's larger, and even like that still has some resistance to exit

A couple of photo's of your thread path from the spool of thread to the needle would be helpful. I'm using the disc tensioner on top left and not quite figured out the best route through the spring tensioned thread tensioner arm (which is also currently above/outside the loop on the needle crank arm).

(I should probably mention for units, suppliers etc I'm based in Italy)

 

I suspect the problem lies in one of several areas, but I'm not quite sure which so I would appreciate help to rule out the more obvious ones:

Thread - needle relation is out of step, one too thick, the other too thin.

Top thread not waxed so binding in workpiece

Thread tensioner arm is not in correct place / spring tension is not correct

Thread tension in general is wrong

Internal space between top of bobbin/shuttle and cover is too small for so much thick thread (but when trying with no work piece and only pulling thread through there doesn't seem to be any severe resistance)

That's about it. I look forward to hearing your suggestions.

Thanks,

Stuart