441 clone

[caperseven]

4 hours ago, Tim Schroeder said:

Simple fix. The diagram is in the thread RockyAussie is quoting.   When you loosen set screw #31 it allows you to push part #30 over either way if you needed to. Once you move the needle bar over you will be able to straighten up the center walking foot. 

Looks like this

[caperseven]

2 hours ago, caperseven said:

Looks like this

Now it looks better and everything is cleared and not touching anything.

Going to try sewing tomorrow so..

Thanks .

[Cumberland Highpower]

On 8/14/2023 at 2:28 AM, caperseven said:

i take a look after work, updates follows.

thanks for input.

juki441 costs 7000$ over here so...

I think the best price I've seen on a new setup 2/table and motor here in the States is around $6400....So you're at least not being overcharged based on locality?

[caperseven]

The knots i close to top of leather, im not sure wich adjuster thats lower or rises it , the upper one or the low one?

What does the lower one do?

Manual is not clear about this.

Jb

[CowboyBob]

Looks like one thickness of leather try sewing at least 2 or more & see what happens.

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, caperseven said:

The knots i close to top of leather, im not sure wich adjuster thats lower or rises it , the upper one or the low one?

The top disks are your primary tension adjusters. The lower roller adds or subtracts a little tension. This roller was more effective in the distant past when the leather stitchers had liquid or melted wax in pots that the top thread ran through. Nowadays, with lubricated, bonded thread, the bottom roller does very little until you get into very large sizes of thread. It adds friction, rather than pinching the thread, as the top disks do.

Those holes look way too big for the thread you are using. Try a size smaller needle. If the knots are still visible, add bobbin tension, or subtract top tension. If the knots are still a problem, move down one thread size in the bobbin.

The needle holes are round. Are you using round point needles? You should use leather point needles in veg-tan leather. Schmetz sells them in System 794, as "S" point. They have an inline slicing point that actually partially submerges the ends of the stitches.

[kgg]

5 hours ago, caperseven said:

The knots i close to top of leather, im not sure wich adjuster thats lower or rises it , the upper one or the low one?

Looking at your machine threading photo's:

i. The top tensioner is threaded like the Juki TSC-441 manual indicates, Section 12, page 6 of the attached manual.

ii. The lower tensioner appears to be thread incorrectly but that maybe just the angle of the photo. It appears you just loop around the disc rather then making a full turn around the disc before going through the take-up spring. Check to see if you have it threaded like the Juki TSC-441 manual indicates, Section 12, page 6 of the attached manual.

If the bobbin tension is too low and the bobbin thread is too close to the top of the material then you need to adjust the Bobbin tension, Section 14, page 7 of the attached manual. But, but....

i) the material needs to be thick enough to do this. Either double up the leather or try sewing two layers together.

ii) the thread combination needs to match the size of needle. A good thread to needle combination chart can be found curiosity of @CowboyBob at ( https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html )

iii) both the top thread and to bobbin thread should be the same size but sometimes there are reasons the bobbin thread is smaller then the top thread. 

There is a topic on showing the different variations of threading the 441 class machines.

 

tsn_421_tsc_441_instruction_2k.pdf

[caperseven]

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The top disks are your primary tension adjusters. The lower roller adds or subtracts a little tension. This roller was more effective in the distant past when the leather stitchers had liquid or melted wax in pots that the top thread ran through. Nowadays, with lubricated, bonded thread, the bottom roller does very little until you get into very large sizes of thread. It adds friction, rather than pinching the thread, as the top disks do.

Those holes look way too big for the thread you are using. Try a size smaller needle. If the knots are still visible, add bobbin tension, or subtract top tension. If the knots are still a problem, move down one thread size in the bobbin.

The needle holes are round. Are you using round point needles? You should use leather point needles in veg-tan leather. Schmetz sells them in System 794, as "S" point. They have an inline slicing point that actually partially submerges the ends of the stitches.

I use #23 needle  ,Diamond point leather needle by smetz and #207 bonded nylon thread both in bobbin and upper.

Just testing with 8oz leather, maby to thin.

[caperseven]

53 minutes ago, kgg said:

Looking at your machine threading photo's:

i. The top tensioner is threaded like the Juki TSC-441 manual indicates, Section 12, page 6 of the attached manual.

ii. The lower tensioner appears to be thread incorrectly but that maybe just the angle of the photo. It appears you just loop around the disc rather then making a full turn around the disc before going through the take-up spring. Check to see if you have it threaded like the Juki TSC-441 manual indicates, Section 12, page 6 of the attached manual.

If the bobbin tension is too low and the bobbin thread is too close to the top of the material then you need to adjust the Bobbin tension, Section 14, page 7 of the attached manual. But, but....

i) the material needs to be thick enough to do this. Either double up the leather or try sewing two layers together.

ii) the thread combination needs to match the size of needle. A good thread to needle combination chart can be found curiosity of @CowboyBob at ( https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html )

iii) both the top thread and to bobbin thread should be the same size but sometimes there are reasons the bobbin thread is smaller then the top thread. 

There is a topic on showing the different variations of threading the 441 class machines.

 

tsn_421_tsc_441_instruction_2k.pdf 3.01 MB · 0 downloads

The lower tension is correct , a 1 1/2 turn then upp to takeup spring, the photo angle not showing full turn. I threaded as Juki TSC-441 manual indicates, Section 12, page 6 of the attached manual.

Im not sure how much tension there should be in bobbin,any tips how you measure that?

I suspect i have to little tension on bobbin and i just use a 8oz leather, it might be better as u say with 2 pieces.(thicker).

Im trying your tips tomorrov,updates follows.

[kgg]

4 hours ago, caperseven said:

Im not sure how much tension there should be in bobbin,any tips how you measure that?

Tension is a real battle between the top thread and the bobbin thread sort of like a tug of war. Here is a couple video's that should help.

kgg