Cowboy Outlaw Hand Crank - Needle Size Help Please

[ZATARA]

Good Afternoon,

I was gifted a new Cowboy Outlaw Hand Crank sewing machine (Tandy Leather Version).

I Like it so far and have been having much success with the projects I make.

One question that has come up is...Can I change the needle size?

I would like to use a needle with a smaller diameter as I am experimenting with thread size #69

The current needle that came with the machine is 7x4DIA   794DIA 200/25 (I am new to this kind of sewing so apologize for not knowing what any of this means!)

These needles leave too big of a hole for the size of thread I am trying to use on a 3mm thick piece of treated and waxed veg tan.  

So...I guess my questions are as follows:

• Can I use a different needle size with this machine?
• Do you have a recommendation on needle size for the #69 thread

Thank you in advance for any help.

[kgg]

40 minutes ago, ZATARA said:

So...I guess my questions are as follows:

• Can I use a different needle size with this machine?
• Do you have a recommendation on needle size for the #69 thread

The machine you have takes 793/794 needle system needles. Basically you are stuck with that needle system which is a large diameter needle system meant to punch through thick leather up to about 3/4" thick with thread sizes from V69 to V346. I have never seen a needle size below a number 20 for that needle system. The best one to contact would be @CowboyBob for available needle sizes. The 794DIA 200/25 tells you the needle system (794) and the size of needle where the 200 is the metric size and the 25 is the US size. The needle that came with your machine is a #25 needle meant for V277 thread.

A good reference chart for needles versus thread size can be found at https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

kgg

[ZATARA]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

The machine you have takes 793/794 needle system needles. Basically you are stuck with that needle system which is a large diameter needle system meant to punch through thick leather up to about 3/4" thick with thread sizes from V69 to V346. I have never seen a needle size below a number 20 for that needle system. The best one to contact would be @CowboyBob for available needle sizes. The 794DIA 200/25 tells you the needle system (794) and the size of needle where the 200 is the metric size and the 25 is the US size. The needle that came with your machine is a #25 needle meant for V277 thread.

A good reference chart for needles versus thread size can be found at https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

kgg

Thank you, this helps treamendously!

[Dwight]

25 minutes ago, ZATARA said:

Thank you, this helps treamendously!

If I could make a suggestion . . . that type machine was not really intended for that thin of thread.

Kinda like a Cadillac Escalade carrying coal for a coal stove.

Move up to at least 207 or 277 thread . . . you'll find you will be getting much better results most likely.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Wizcrafts]

In system 794, or 7x4, the smallest leather point needle available is from Schmetz. It is a #23 needle with an S point, which is an inline chisel. This needle is best used with #138 thread on top and bottom. However, you could load #92 thread in the bobbin and tighten the bobbin tension to pull the knots down inside the layers.

Since you asked about using #69 thread, you *can* run it in the bobbin, *if" the bobbin tension spring will clamp it down tight enough to control the position of the knots. To run #69 on top requires the machine to be able to loosen the top tension a lot more than expected. Finally, if you can make those two adjustments, you can buy a pack of #18 and/or #19 needles in system 7x3 - round points. They will poke perfectly round holes that will look large compared to leather point needles. If the leather is dry, or dense, those needles will squeak and may even grab the leather, lifting it up as the needle ascends. This will cause skipped stitches. To offset this problem, fill the lube pot with clear sewing machine oil, or liquid silicon lube and run the top thread through it.

ANybody who has a 441 type machine, including the Cowboy Outlaw, wanting to use small thread and needles in it to sew a thin project, should read my blog article about Dumbing down a Cowboy cb4500, Cobra Class 4, or similar harness stitcher.

[CowboyBob]

16 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

In system 794, or 7x4, the smallest leather point needle available is from Schmetz. It is a #23 needle with an S point, which is an inline chisel. This needle is best used with #138 thread on top and bottom. However, you could load #92 thread in the bobbin and tighten the bobbin tension to pull the knots down inside the layers.

Since you asked about using #69 thread, you *can* run it in the bobbin, *if" the bobbin tension spring will clamp it down tight enough to control the position of the knots. To run #69 on top requires the machine to be able to loosen the top tension a lot more than expected. Finally, if you can make those two adjustments, you can buy a pack of #18 and/or #19 needles in system 7x3 - round points. They will poke perfectly round holes that will look large compared to leather point needles. If the leather is dry, or dense, those needles will squeak and may even grab the leather, lifting it up as the needle ascends. This will cause skipped stitches. To offset this problem, fill the lube pot with clear sewing machine oil, or liquid silicon lube and run the top thread through it.

ANybody who has a 441 type machine, including the Cowboy Outlaw, wanting to use small thread and needles in it to sew a thin project, should read my blog article about Dumbing down a Cowboy cb4500, Cobra Class 4, or similar harness stitcher.

Schmetz does make a size #21 in a 794S point & of course we have them.And the smallest 7x3 you can buy now is a#19 or #120 in metric,they quit making the #18.

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

Schmetz does make a size #21 in a 794S point & of course we have them.

I will be ordering a couple packs of ten!