Cowboy CB4500 premium w/eps vs Techsew 5100 se w/eps

[DieselTech]

New member here, looking to purchase a leather sewing machine. Looking to sew, wallets, rifle slings, sheaths, holsters, among other things. 

Is both these machines equal in say performance, & usability & serviceability? 

Does 1 machine over the other offer better support in the U.S? Wheres the best place to purchase something like this?

Also would like to be able to sew lighter materials with additional accessories or modifications or adjustments if possible. 

I've read articles about dumming down a 441,  I have read about narrow throat plate & presser foots, possibly available. 

Can some professionals give me some insight or advice? 

Thanks & appreciate everything.

[MtlBiker]

8 hours ago, DieselTech said:

New member here, looking to purchase a leather sewing machine. Looking to sew, wallets, rifle slings, sheaths, holsters, among other things. 

Is both these machines equal in say performance, & usability & serviceability? 

Does 1 machine over the other offer better support in the U.S? Wheres the best place to purchase something like this?

Also would like to be able to sew lighter materials with additional accessories or modifications or adjustments if possible. 

I've read articles about dumming down a 441,  I have read about narrow throat plate & presser foots, possibly available. 

Can some professionals give me some insight or advice? 

Thanks & appreciate everything.

As a Techsew 2750 Pro owner in Canada and a regular user here, my suggestion to you is that the Cowboy is a better choice for you.  Cowboy has an excellent quality reputation and the service/support is outstanding.

Yes you can dumb down those machines but remember there is no one machine that will do everything, which is why many of us have more than one.

[DieselTech]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

As a Techsew 2750 Pro owner in Canada and a regular user here, my suggestion to you is that the Cowboy is a better choice for you.  Cowboy has an excellent quality reputation and the service/support is outstanding.

Yes you can dumb down those machines but remember there is no one machine that will do everything, which is why many of us have more than one.

Thanks I appreciate your input. I kind of knew I would need more than 1 sewing machine.

I was hoping I could get by with a larger machine till I can afford a smaller machine for the smaller leather projects. 

I would like to purchase a sewing machine that is setup & ready to go, with some required assembly. Basically a tested & setup sewing machine if possible. 

I'm not sure where to purchase a sewing machine with support if something wears out or I break something as a newbie trying to learn the machine. 

Thanks again. Any & all help is appreciated. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by DieselTech

[jrdunn]

I bought my CB 4500 from Bob at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machine.  I highly recommend him.  Call him and visit with him.  He was very helpful to  me.  He advertises on this forum.  JM2C.  Jim

https://tolindsewmach.com/

[DieselTech]

23 minutes ago, jrdunn said:

I bought my CB 4500 from Bob at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machine.  I highly recommend him.  Call him and visit with him.  He was very helpful to  me.  He advertises on this forum.  JM2C.  Jim

https://tolindsewmach.com/

Thank you I shall call them & discuss my options. Thanks.

[Wizcrafts]

11 hours ago, DieselTech said:

Also would like to be able to sew lighter materials with additional accessories or modifications or adjustments if possible. 

I've read articles about dumming down a 441,  I have read about narrow throat plate & presser foots, possibly available. 

Can some professionals give me some insight or advice?

@DieselTech

I have a Cowboy CB4500, along with every accessory they offer. I also have the narrow feeder and throat plate from @RockyAussie (link) and one from @Patrick1 (video link). With these narrow sets installed, my Cowboy is able to sew even soft leather and blue jeans cuffs with thin needles and thread that suit these projects. The bonus is that at least with RockyAussie's set, I don't need to change them to sew a holster of sheath with #277 thread. Before getting these sets, I had to remove the feed dog and install my narrow slotted flat throat plate when sewing thin or soft materials. That's what I did when I wrote about dumbing down a Cowboy, Cobra or other 441 machine. Now, all I have to do to dumb it down is increase the bobbin tension and decrease the top tension, plus change to a smaller needle.

[DieselTech]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

@DieselTech

I have a Cowboy CB4500, along with every accessory they offer. I also have the narrow feeder and throat plate from @RockyAussie (link) and one from @Patrick1 (video link). With these narrow sets installed, my Cowboy is able to sew even soft leather and blue jeans cuffs with thin needles and thread that suit these projects. The bonus is that at least with RockyAussie's set, I don't need to change them to sew a holster of sheath with #277 thread. Before getting these sets, I had to remove the feed dog and install my narrow slotted flat throat plate when sewing thin or soft materials. That's what I did when I wrote about dumbing down a Cowboy, Cobra or other 441 machine. Now, all I have to do to dumb it down is increase the bobbin tension and decrease the top tension, plus change to a smaller needle.

Thanks you very much. Do you reccomend just buying a cb4500 from 1 of the sponsored vendors on this site. Also where can the feed dog & narrow throat plate be bought?  Or anything else a person might need? 

I would like to get my sewing machine & whatever might be needed at 1 or couple vendors for the machine. 

My biggest scare is I guess, is something wearing out prematurely or something breaks on the machine & then getting parts. 

As you can probably tell by my handle, I turn wrenches, so I'm mechanically inclined that if I need to make a repair I can. 

I was looking at the King Cobra too, but after seeing the price, I dont think I can afford it. I'm hoping I can get a nice machine w/eps for around $4500. That's my budget as of now. 

Thanks for your input & I'm up to hear anything else you or anybody else what's to add. 

[DieselTech]

I guess I should have mentioned I mainly use 277 or 346 thread on my heavy projects, when I saddle stitch. I'm hoping a 346 thread will feed thru whatever machine I buy easily. 

I think the lightest thread I have used is 138, i personally think the heavier thread looks better on certain leather projects. 

[dikman]

If a Cowboy 4500 is working ok when you get it then the chances of something going wrong or breaking is minimal - unless the operator (you) does something stupid. These machines are built pretty tough! As for wearing out it's going to be a long time before that is likely to be an issue, you're worrying unnecessarily. 

Get the modified foot plate and feed dog, a necessity in my opinion, then you can comfortably sew with #346 down to #138 thread.

Edited November 24, 2023 by dikman

[DieselTech]

10 minutes ago, dikman said:

If a Cowboy 4500 is working ok when you get it then the chances of something going wrong or breaking is minimal - unless the operator (you) does something stupid. These machines are built pretty tough! As for wearing out it's going to be a long time before that is likely to be an issue, you're worrying unnecessarily. 

Get the modified foot plate and feed dog, a necessity in my opinion, then you can comfortably sew with #346 down to #138 thread.

Thanks I appreciate it. So where does a person purchase these modified presser feet & throat plates. 

I think the cb4500 w/eps premium package, might come with some different feet & throat plates. As well as a flat table attachment, but I'm not 100% sure. 

[DieselTech]

I'm also hoping to sew tow straps & truckers tarps & straps. 

[dikman]

Wiz mentioned RockyAussie and Patrick1 in his post above for the modified foot plates. There have been a few posts about them in this section of the forum. A 4500 should handle straps etc fine.

[MtlBiker]

5 minutes ago, DieselTech said:

Thanks I appreciate it. So where does a person purchase these modified presser feet & throat plates. 

I think the cb4500 w/eps premium package, might come with some different feet & throat plates. As well as a flat table attachment, but I'm not 100% sure. 

There are links to those products in the reply above from Wizcrafts.  And do make sure you get an aluminum flatbed attachment as those can generally be installed and removed in about a minute... the original flatbed attachment I got with my Techsew 2750 Pro was a PITA to install/remove so it ended up getting tossed.  I bought an aluminum after-market one and it's great!

[DieselTech]

15 minutes ago, dikman said:

Wiz mentioned RockyAussie and Patrick1 in his post above for the modified foot plates. There have been a few posts about them in this section of the forum. A 4500 should handle straps etc fine.

Ok thanks. I went to them links & must have overlooked the website/links for purchase of the extra accessories needed.

Yeah I have been reading on this site, to get the aluminum flatbed attachment just because its simpler to remove & install. 

I appreciate the info/knowledge. Thanks. 

[DieselTech]

19 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

There are links to those products in the reply above from Wizcrafts.  And do make sure you get an aluminum flatbed attachment as those can generally be installed and removed in about a minute... the original flatbed attachment I got with my Techsew 2750 Pro was a PITA to install/remove so it ended up getting tossed.  I bought an aluminum after-market one and it's great!

Yeah from my reading the aluminum flatbed table is the way to go. I been trying to find & read all I can on the machines I'm interested in. 

Thanks appreciate your help. 

[DieselTech]

Do they not offer eps on the cowboy cb4500? 

I was thinking the cowboy cb4500 premium package was $3395 for it. Then I thought the eps upgrade was a additional $500. Maybe I'm getting confused by all the bigger sewing machines I been looking & reading about. Lol. 

Thanks for everyones input & knowledge.

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, DieselTech said:

Maybe I'm getting confused by all the bigger sewing machines I been looking & reading about. Lol. 

Yup

[Wizcrafts]

@DieselTech

You are getting way ahead of your requirements when you say you want the EPS system on a Cowboy cb4500. or equivalent. That is a needle position sensor that either stops with the needle up otr down all the way. This system was developed for the garment needle trade where they frequently sew at 90 stitches per SECOND, or faster! My Cowboy cb4500 is equipped with an analog servo motor which has a speed limiter dial and knob. It has a 2 inch pulley that feeds a 3:1 speed reducer, which drives the huge balance wheel. The overall reduction is between 9:1 and 10:1 from the motor to the machine. When I set the motor to the slowest setting where it still turns over and powers this reduction stack, the maximum machine sewing speed is about 1/2 to 3/4  stitch per second. I can easily feather the motor down to 1 stitch in 10 seconds. You don't need no stinking EPS on a cb4500!

@DieselTech

You can order your cb4500 and accessories that make sense, HERE

[DieselTech]

51 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

@DieselTech

You are getting way ahead of your requirements when you say you want the EPS system on a Cowboy cb4500. or equivalent. That is a needle position sensor that either stops with the needle up otr down all the way. This system was developed for the garment needle trade where they frequently sew at 90 stitches per SECOND, or faster! My Cowboy cb4500 is equipped with an analog servo motor which has a speed limiter dial and knob. It has a 2 inch pulley that feeds a 3:1 speed reducer, which drives the huge balance wheel. The overall reduction is between 9:1 and 10:1 from the motor to the machine. When I set the motor to the slowest setting where it still turns over and powers this reduction stack, the maximum machine sewing speed is about 1/2 to 3/4  stitch per second. I can easily feather the motor down to 1 stitch in 10 seconds. You don't need no stinking EPS on a cb4500!

@DieselTech

You can order your cb4500 and accessories that make sense, HERE

Thanks Wizcrafts. I been lurking on & off for years on this site, but just recently joined. I appreciate your knowledge & help. 

Yeah I was looking at the Cobra Class 4 premium package & got the details all twisted around between the machines. 

I watched a bunch of videos & read about the Cobra class 4, Cowboy CB4500, & the Techsew 5100se & just wasnt sure what my best route was to go. I got $4500 for the budget for a machine. 

Plus what ever machine I buy for now, i would like to be able to sew soft lighter materials, short of maybe changing a few parts & adjustments to switch from light to heavy projects. 

Thanks again. 

[kgg]

7 hours ago, DieselTech said:

I guess I should have mentioned I mainly use 277 or 346 thread on my heavy projects,

 

If your thread range is V138 to V346 then you are into a class 441 machine to handle the V346 thread.

6 hours ago, DieselTech said:

I'm also hoping to sew tow straps & truckers tarps & straps. 

If you are planning on selling / repairing traps or straps in general for other people be very careful, get trained, certified and insured. It isn't just about that you can do the work or what machine can do the job it's the liability should things go south.

kgg

 

[DieselTech]

35 minutes ago, kgg said:

 

If your thread range is V138 to V346 then you are into a class 441 machine to handle the V346 thread.

If you are planning on selling / repairing traps or straps in general for other people be very careful, get trained, certified and insured. It isn't just about that you can do the work or what machine can do the job it's the liability should things go south.

kgg

 

Thanks yeah the tow strap would have lots of liability & it's more for myself. Truckers tarps not so much, but not 100%sure on that thou either. 

But you are correct if tow straps are to be repaired I'm sure there is a certification class that will need to be completed. 

I would like also to make some heavy weight canvas tarps/tents. 

I'm all new to the industrial machines, but is the Cobra Class 4, Cowboy CB4500 & the Techsew 5100se in the 441 class range? 

Thanks. I appreciate it. 

[kgg]

7 hours ago, DieselTech said:

I'm all new to the industrial machines, but is the Cobra Class 4, Cowboy CB4500 & the Techsew 5100se in the 441 class range? 

Simple answer is Yes. My simple way of determining the class of machine. If a machine uses the 794 X SIZE of system needles then it is a Class 441 where SIZE is the size of needle that is determined by the size of thread being used. In the class 441 you have the one armed bandits and the machines with 9", 16", 25", 37.5"  cylinder arms.

I class machines basically on what the equivalent Juki or Singer series of machines it best's represents like 29K / 1141 / 1541 / 341 / 441. For someone new to machines trying to figure out which clones have similar capabilities can be a chore.

kgg

 

[Wizcrafts]

12 hours ago, DieselTech said:

Plus what ever machine I buy for now, i would like to be able to sew soft lighter materials, short of maybe changing a few parts & adjustments to switch from light to heavy projects.

@DieselTech,

The narrow feed dog and matching narrow throat plate are aftermarket items that are manufactured by two of our members. I linked to their profiles earlier in this thread. One is in Australia and the other is in the USA. I have the Australian narrow set installed in my cb4500 and haven't had to remove it to sew with #277 thread. I haven't tried using #346 and the larger #26 needle yet. That might be a bit too wide for this feed dog. I'll try it when I go to my shop later today (unless I forget!). The other set is best suited to smaller needles and thread. I have switched over to his set once to hem a pair of jeans. It worked perfectly! However, I also have a Techsew 2700 cylinder arm machine that already does that work, natively.

With a Cowboy cb4500, or Cobra Class 4, or Techsew 5100, and one or two narrow feeder/throat plate sets, one can sew anything from a pair of denim pants, or a wallet interior, up to a 7/8 inch thick holster. Just change the feeder, needle and thread, balance the knots, and sew the project at hand. The flatbed table attachment makes it easier to sew some flat items. I have one but rarely use it.

[DieselTech]

4 hours ago, kgg said:

Simple answer is Yes. My simple way of determining the class of machine. If a machine uses the 794 X SIZE of system needles then it is a Class 441 where SIZE is the size of needle that is determined by the size of thread being used. In the class 441 you have the one armed bandits and the machines with 9", 16", 25", 37.5"  cylinder arms.

I class machines basically on what the equivalent Juki or Singer series of machines it best's represents like 29K / 1141 / 1541 / 341 / 441. For someone new to machines trying to figure out which clones have similar capabilities can be a chore.

kgg

 

Thanks kgg. I got a lot more reading to do. I'll keep doing my research about the different machines. 

[kgg]

1 minute ago, DieselTech said:

I'll keep doing my research about the different machines. 

I forgot to add that there are presently three one armed bandits available, Tippmann Boss, Cowboy Outlaw, Weaver Cub.

kgg