DIY leather conditioner

[deboardp]

7 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

No, those are recipes that have oils in them, which most conditioners do; they are examples

Yes, they are heavy with oil. Saying they are not, that they are recipes with oil in them, does not make them not heavy with oil. If I recall correctly, one of your first recipes had two full 16oz bottles of oil in it! Your conditioner is not a grease but is an oil. I had considered using an oil in my grease if the grease was too thick, but I thought maybe a tablespoon or two in an 8 ounce portion of grease. 

I'm not going to oil my leather, I'm going to warm-and-wet stuff it with grease. 

Edited January 13 by deboardp

[chuck123wapati]

16 hours ago, SUP said:

Making essential oils must be time consuming, isn't it? 

I'm actually looking for a leather or tobacco fragrance. I'm a bit tired of everything smelling of orange! I thought my leather  at least should smell a little different. Last week I added a tiny bit of a solid scent that I bought last month.  It is a paste so blends right in. Strong scent so only a little was needed - smells of leather and tobacco. If I don't get a good fragrance oil for a leather fragrance, I will probably continue to use it.

i figure two days to make one batch, one to collect the fresh flowers, herbs, and a day to distill and collect the oils. Get some really nice smelling pipe tobacco and smoke your leather with it. 

[chuck123wapati]

8 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

 The "Recipe" itself(how to go about making  it) allows you to insert what ever ingredients YOU want to use.

So basically just do the same thing the old guys back in 1895 did, and the old guys in the 1700s, 1600s, 1500s...

[SUP]

38 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

i figure two days to make one batch, one to collect the fresh flowers, herbs, and a day to distill and collect the oils

 One of the uses of a still, I guess. 

Or just keep a handful of tobacco along with the leather maybe. After all, cigar boxes smell wonderful too - used to get them from my uncle who smoked cigars.

Edited January 13 by SUP

[chuck123wapati]

1 minute ago, SUP said:

 one of the uses of a still, I guess. 

 

LOL I cant talk of that on social media. but a finer Brandy I've never tasted.

[SUP]

 

2 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

LOL I cant talk of that on social media. but a finer Brandy I've never tasted.

I'll take your word for it.

[deboardp]

10 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

So basically just do the same thing the old guys back in 1895 did, and the old guys in the 1700s, 1600s, 1500s.

I thought the old guys used grease, you know, tallow and lard, not oil?

Maybe it was just the English...

Edited January 13 by deboardp

[SUP]

There are only so many waxes and greases suitable for the purpose. Over the centuries, all the combinations will have already been tried, isn't it?

Finally, it is just hydration, lubrication and water proofing, whatever the products used.

If Aussies, with over 94% petroleum products is considered wonderful - people wax eloquent about it -  as much as tallow and lanolin and beeswax and other animal products, it shows leather is hardy  and not really fussy, is it not? 

And @deboardp if you are concerned about the vegans and vegetarians, why not emulate Aussies? There's proof for you that petroleum products do not actually harm leather and do not need animal products or indeed, labor-intensive procedures like hot-stuffing with grease to remain in good condition. 

 

Edited January 13 by SUP

[chuck123wapati]

Just now, deboardp said:

I thought the old guys used grease, you know, tallow and lard, not oil?

They did, they also used some oils depending on the use of the leather. Oils make your leather soft so you use them as you want your leather to become. I would tend to think  saddle makers didn't want a lot of softness but more long term water resistance so didn't use much. Other old recipes I've seen have had added oils. 

Do you feel like you've walked around the Grand canyon and just got back to the parking lot lol.

 

[SUP]

2 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

Do you feel like you've walked around the Grand canyon and just got back to the parking lot lol.

 Been there, done that. @deboardp 

[ScottWolf]

3 hours ago, deboardp said:

Yes, they are heavy with oil. Saying they are not, that they are recipes with oil in them, does not make them not heavy with oil. If I recall correctly, one of your first recipes had two full 16oz bottles of oil in it! Your conditioner is not a grease but is an oil. I had considered using an oil in my grease if the grease was too thick, but I thought maybe a tablespoon or two in an 8 ounce portion of grease. 

I'm not going to oil my leather, I'm going to warm-and-wet stuff it with grease. 

No, you are misunderstanding what I am trying to tell you. YES, those ingredients are oils, but lets look past that for a second. What I am trying to convey to you is that you can use what ever ingredients you choose, using the formula (ratios) of ingredients to one another. If none of your ingredients are oils, thats fine. Don''t focus on the ingredients mentioned, focus on the formula. Hope that helps.

[deboardp]

34 minutes ago, ScottWolf said:

No, you are misunderstanding what I am trying to tell you. YES, those ingredients are oils, but lets look past that for a second. What I am trying to convey to you is that you can use what ever ingredients you choose, using the formula (ratios) of ingredients to one another. If none of your ingredients are oils, thats fine. Don''t focus on the ingredients mentioned, focus on the formula. Hope that helps.

You're funny. Like I said, I'm not interested in oiling my leather. I'm making grease. I don't need to reference your formula for ratios of oils, because I'm not using oils. I think it's you that is not understanding, Scott. 

[ScottWolf]

27 minutes ago, deboardp said:

You're funny. Like I said, I'm not interested in oiling my leather. I'm making grease. I don't need to reference your formula for ratios of oils, because I'm not using oils. I think it's you that is not understanding, Scott. 

OK, have fun storming the castle. Let us know what you decide to use and how it turns out for you. Best wishes with the sandals. 

[deboardp]

6 minutes ago, ScottWolf said:

35 minutes ago, deboardp said:

You're funny. Like I said, I'm not interested in oiling my leather. I'm making grease. I don't need to reference your formula for ratios of oils, because I'm not using oils. I think it's you that is not understanding, Scott. 

OK, have fun storming the castle. Let us know what you decide to use and how it turns out for you. Best wishes with the sandals. 

Will do, of course! Thanks for your best wishes!

[dikman]

8 hours ago, SUP said:

If Aussies, with over 94% petroleum products is considered wonderful - people wax eloquent about it -  as much as tallow and lanolin and beeswax and other animal products, it shows leather is hardy  and not really fussy, is it not? 

And @deboardp if you are concerned about the vegans and vegetarians, why not emulate Aussies? There's proof for you that petroleum products do not actually harm leather and do not need animal products or indeed, labor-intensive procedures like hot-stuffing with grease to remain in good condition. 

 

Sup, I came to the same conclusion the other day. The vast majority of commercial leather treatment products, judging by the MSDS of those I've looked at, use primarily petroleum-derived products, with smallish amounts of beeswax and/or lanolin and other things added. The Germans developed Ballistol (Ballistic Oil) during WW1 to use on military leather (boots etc) and continued to use it during WW2. As a product it's still in use today and guess what, it's almost pure mineral oil, with just a few minor things added primarily to make it smell nice!

It seems to me that a mixture of beeswax and mineral oil should solve deboardp's problems - no animal smell and no animal matter used so pure vegan, pure mineral oil can be ingested so safe for people and the oil doesn't go off so should last indefinitely (or at least a very long time). Ticks all the boxes.

Edited January 13 by dikman

[deboardp]

27 minutes ago, dikman said:

It seems to me that a mixture of beeswax and mineral oil should solve deboardp's problems

I protest! I'm simply trying to find a grease recipe that will work for me! And apparently anything at all will work, but I want something that smells nice, makes the leather soft and supple, attractive, smells nice, and I have nothing else in the world to do, so there ya go. I do have problems, but they are not related to leather work. Brain damage is one.  Hahaha.

I got the Colorado Leather Balm today, and that stuff smells nice! Tallow, lanolin, beeswax, proportions unknown to me at this time. Probably on the MDS. It's not cheap! $30 for 8 ounces, plus tax and shipping.  The instructions say just rub it in, no mention of warm water first. It smells sweet, too, and I looked to see if sugar was an ingredient. 

As for using petroleum jelly, I smeared some on a piece of veg tan, and it was absorbed partially, but the rest stayed on the surface for a week before I put the piece aside somewhere. 

I'm considering making my conditioner anyway, since I have everything. I wish I knew what ratios to use, for example for tallow, lanolin, and wax. Oz used 25% wax, 50% tallow, 25% lard. He said that's basically what the English saddlers have used for centuries. So if i did use tallow, it would be 25% wax, 50% tallow, and 25% lanolin. I could make a small batch. My tiny tools are due on Tuesday, for cutting the corners of my curved and sloped slots. Maybe I'll make a batch on Monday, like, 8 ounces. 2 oz wax. 4 oz tallow, 2 oz lanolin, put it to the schnoz. 

The tallows I have are different colors. I said this before. One is yellow and smells like hamburger run-off from cooking burgers. The other is pure white, creamy, very fine textured, and has almost no smell. When cold it has no smell that I could detect. On a warm heated sandal, I wonder. I guess I will find out. I'm going to use the Colorado Leather Balm on the first pair I make, for my grossly large feet, swollen from my various diseases. I'll report about aroma when the sandal has been worn and is warm. 

[SUP]

@dikman Yep but you see, it is a personal thing, so to each his own.   @deboardp if you are most comfortable with  using greases on your leather,  you also now know that they are fine on leather. As @chuck123wapati said, people have been doing it for 100s of years. So whether you do what they did or adapt something like petroleum products, ether way there is plenty of proof about all the ingredients and that they do not harm leather, never mind what the companies  selling different products say. Good luck in your endeavour!

[deboardp]

2 minutes ago, SUP said:

@dikman Yep but you see, it is a personal thing, so to each his own.   @deboardp if you are most comfortable with  using greases on your leather,  you also now know that they are fine on leather. As @chuck123wapati said, people have been doing it for 100s of years. So whether you do what they did or adapt something like petroleum products, ether way there is plenty of proof about all the ingredients and that they do not harm leather, never mind what the companies  selling different products say. Good luck in your endeavour!

I do like the way folks did it before. If the tallow doesn't stink up the sandal, I will be okay with it. After all, beef sides used to have beef fat in them, under them, etc, so putting it back is not such a new thing for the sides. Petroleum jelly seems like a cheap new way, typical of our western cheap culture. And since I put some vaseline on my leather, I noticed they don't actually welcome it. It stays mostly on the surface. I know, I should warm-wet the leather and rub it in.  Still seems quick and cheap. I have standards (nose held in the air, accompanied by a sniff).

[SUP]

@deboardp Just a word of caution. Beeswax hardens quite a bit and when I tried it first, my conditioner ended up hard. I had to add more and more lanolin and oil to get it to a paste. Since you are not planning to use oils which make the mixture more fluid, may I suggest you start with a small quantity of beeswax and add more until you get the texture you want? Else, like me, you might end up with a large hard block from which I hacked off pieces and added lanolin and oil to get a paste. A bit of a pain.

Also if you want it to smell nice, maybe you should decide what you mean by 'nice'. Lanolin smells great to me - is that what you mean? Or do you plan to add something for fragrance? You can add any essential oil or fragrance oil but is that what you want? If so, maybe you could look up fragrance oils to find what will please you?

[dikman]

That Colorado stuff is sort of what many on here have been saying to use - tallow, beeswax and some sort of oil to thin it out, in this case lanolin. If it is soft enough to spread then the bulk of it must be lanolin, as while tallow has a relatively low melting point beeswax does not and once you start adding it the mixture will thicken/stiffen very quickly. I see Sup just said the same thing. Even the Colorado add said "just a bit of beeswax", so it's mostly lanolin and tallow.

In my experiments I started off with beeswax and found I had to add a LOT of oil to make it softer, as Sup has said.

[SUP]

 

4 minutes ago, deboardp said:

I have standards (nose held in the air, accompanied by a sniff).

LOL @deboardp  me? Not so much. If I can get something done well on the cheap, I do not like to spend more. But i like lanolin in my conditioner for the fragrance as well - if petroleum jelly smelt as good, I would use it. 

And hey! it is not just our Western culture that produces and uses cheap stuff... think of where it comes from first! The rest of the world does it as well, produces and uses cheap stuff.  Think of Balistol as @dikman  said. It is only us who beat ourselves about it. No, my friend. Let's not do that. We have to respect ourselves first before we can expect others to respect us,  and there is plenty to respect in us.. 

[deboardp]

18 minutes ago, SUP said:

@deboardp Just a word of caution. Beeswax hardens quite a bit and when I tried it first, my conditioner ended up hard. I had to add more and more lanolin and oil to get it to a paste. Since you are not planning to use oils which make the mixture more fluid, may I suggest you start with a small quantity of beeswax and add more until you get the texture you want? Else, like me, you might end up with a large hard block from which I hacked off pieces and added lanolin and oil to get a paste. A bit of a pain.

Also if you want it to smell nice, maybe you should decide what you mean by 'nice'. Lanolin smells great to me - is that what you mean? Or do you plan to add something for fragrance? You can add any essential oil or fragrance oil but is that what you want? If so, maybe you could look up fragrance oils to find what will please you?

Thanks for the warning about the wax. I'll reduce what I plan to use, maybe do 12.5% instead of 25% of the total weight. Lanolin smells great to me, too. It's a bit thin, not very pasty, although I haven't scooped any out of the bucket to work it with my hands. I'll know more when I pull the tallow and the lanolin out of their containers. I'll pinch a bit of each for a feel.

[deboardp]

13 minutes ago, dikman said:

That Colorado stuff is sort of what many on here have been saying to use - tallow, beeswax and some sort of oil to thin it out, in this case lanolin. If it is soft enough to spread then the bulk of it must be lanolin, as while tallow has a relatively low melting point beeswax does not and once you start adding it the mixture will thicken/stiffen very quickly. I see Sup just said the same thing. Even the Colorado add said "just a bit of beeswax", so it's mostly lanolin and tallow.

In my experiments I started off with beeswax and found I had to add a LOT of oil to make it softer, as Sup has said.

The can says that this Colorado Leather balm goes liquid at 95F. That's like close to how warm a sandal will get with a foot in it. A bit more beeswax will raise the melting point.

[deboardp]

19 minutes ago, SUP said:

 

LOL @deboardp  me? Not so much. If I can get something done well on the cheap, I do not like to spend more. But i like lanolin in my conditioner for the fragrance as well - if petroleum jelly smelt as good, I would use it. 

And hey! it is not just our Western culture that produces and uses cheap stuff... think of where it comes from first! The rest of the world does it as well, produces and uses cheap stuff.  Think of Balistol as @dikman  said. It is only us who beat ourselves about it. No, my friend. Let's not do that. We have to respect ourselves first before we can expect others to respect us,  and there is plenty to respect in us.. 

Nobody should respect me, and I certainly don't respect myself. I know myself. There's nothing good in me. 

That's called humility, a virtue.

About getting stuff on the cheap, yes, I'm okay with that. That's why, if this Colorado Leather Balm works, I want to make my own, since I have 50 tins and lids. I'll give my customers a tin of it with each order.

 

Edited January 13 by deboardp

[SUP]

@deboardp,  that is sad. I hope a day comes when you will value yourself more.

When one is not puffed up with self importance, when one thinks one is no different from anyone else, that is humility and a virtue. Denigrating oneself? I don't think so. And before you say that I don't know what I am talking about, please remember you are a veteran and to the rest of us in the country, veterans are people whom we respect. Whatever happened afterwards are circumstances which you might or might not have contributed towards but that will not change the fact that you re a veteran.   As my husband says and I agree wholeheartedly, when there is danger and we laymen run away, the armed forces, the police force, the fire service, all of you run towards it, so that the rest of us are safe. That is why, all of you are worthy of respect.