Cautionary Tale

[kgg]

20 hours ago, bruce johnson said:

Exclusions are no welding (don't anyway), no equipment loaning, and no employees.

I would imagine most policies have their exclusions. I gotta agree with the no welding, hot splatters and all.

kgg

[TomE]

Typically have to prove gross negligence to claim liability.  Since she had a snow removal service treat her driveway she has a good case.  We have guests sign a liability release that explains the risks when trying out a horse or pony on our property, but we are still liable for "gross negligence."  We require a helmet, have our trainer present during the ride, etc.

[kgg]

13 hours ago, TomE said:

Typically have to prove gross negligence to claim liability. 

Sorry to say not up here in Canada. Your property, your liability even if the client / visitor is the negligent one. Even giving someone permission or unknowingly someone travels your land for hunting, etc it is a liability to the land owner. It's to the point you can't even help someone who gets stuck in the snow or drove off the road. If you use your tractor to pull them free chances are you will be accused of causing the damage to the vehicle even though it was caused by the driver and windup paying for the damages. Happen to a farmer neighbor a few years back. Gone are the days of being neighborly. 

kgg

 

Edited January 30, 2024 by kgg

[Handstitched]

3 hours ago, kgg said:

Gone are the days of being neighborly. 

Thankfully I have a good rapport with my (repeat) customers  but I do try to keep my workshop tidy , not just  for my own benefit and appearances, but also for safety for myself and customers 

HS 

[Mablung]

@kgg Did this accident occur in the US? If so, which state? The law relating to premises liability varies from state to state, although there are some generally applicable patterns and principles. 

[kgg]

2 hours ago, Mablung said:

Did this accident occur in the US?

Canada

[Northmount]

On 1/29/2024 at 7:11 PM, kgg said:

Sorry to say not up here in Canada.

And Ontario is worse than Alberta.  You can't even walk around an old abandoned acreage or farm without the owners permission without risk of being charged with trespassing fenced or not.  So if you are injured while trespassing, you are likely on your own, plus trespass charges.  For many years, Ontario's regulations for all sorts of things have been lots more restrictive than Alberta's.

 

[Mablung]

On 1/29/2024 at 6:50 AM, TomE said:

Typically have to prove gross negligence to claim liability.  Since she had a snow removal service treat her driveway she has a good case.  We have guests sign a liability release that explains the risks when trying out a horse or pony on our property, but we are still liable for "gross negligence."  We require a helmet, have our trainer present during the ride, etc.

Gross negligence is required only in certain contexts, mainly professional contexts in which the professional owes a heightened duty due to the nature of the activity but is also afforded the additional protection of a heightened degree of breach of that duty before the professional can be held liable.  Gross negligence is not the general rule, however.  "Regular" negligence, if you will, is generally all that is necessary (in addition to causation and damage, of course) in the context of premises liability actions.*

* None of this is legal advice, just observations about principles of tort law generally applicable in all US jurisdictions.

6 minutes ago, Northmount said:

And Ontario is worse than Alberta.  You can't even walk around an old abandoned acreage or farm without the owners permission without risk of being charged with trespassing fenced or not.  So if you are injured while trespassing, you are likely on your own, plus trespass charges.  For many years, Ontario's regulations for all sorts of things have been lots more restrictive than Alberta's.

 

US law on trespass to land is very similar.  The volitional act to enter the property of another is sufficient to establish liability.  That doesn't stop people from trespassing, of course, under the mistaken idea that they can do so on land or abandoned buildings as long as they don't hurt anything, but it's still technically a trespass.

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Northmount said:

You can't even walk around an old abandoned acreage or farm without the owners permission without risk of being charged with trespassing fenced or not. 

Yes and rightly so. The worst for trespassing in my rural area are the snowmobile users then the citi-idiots during bird / deer hunting season then the ones cutting down tree's without permission (tree poachers) then the truffle hunters then the garbage tippers then the illegal grow op's and of course the deer poachers. The only ones that I give permission too travel my land are the wolf/coyote hunter group, a trapper and the owners of the adjoining farms.

kgg