Adler 205 top thread getting stuck

[Goldshot Ron]

I acquired an Adler 205 a couple of months ago.  It was set up using 138 size thread.  When I changed to heavier 346 the bobbin hook started catching the top thread and knotting up.  I checked timing, tension, cleaned and oiled machine, removed the needle spacer, and watched "You Tube" videos umpteen times.  After days of dismantling and trying different things, I have discovered that the top thread is getting caught between the bobbin shuttle hook and the back race.  The hook catches the top thread and the loop is formed; however, the top thread cannot finish the loop because it becomes stuck between the bobbin shuttle and the rear race.  The tension in this area appears too tight. I am waiting for a return call from Weaver, but decided to post here also.  I have polished the bobbin hook and the race.  And, I have checked the 4 springs that are behind the race.  I am missing something, but I do not know what.

Grateful for any help.

Ron

[Wizcrafts]

12 hours ago, Goldshot Ron said:

I am missing something, but I do not know what.

You are missing the little known fact that the Adler 205 uses shims/spacers to set the distance between the hook and shuttle race. I've never had one of those machines, so I can't give you a better definition. Your machine may have been setup for #138 thread to optimize it in production use. In order to use larger thread, you need to buy the correct spacer. I think Weaver has them. If not, Campbell-Randall should have some. As a last resort, there's Durkopp-Adler USA..

[Goldshot Ron]

Thanks for the reply.  I have tried different combinations of spacers, and yet the problem keeps occuring. I received a call from John at Weaver, and we are still trying to figure out the problem.  The top thread is binding between the shuttle hook and the rear race.  It is probably something real simple, and I am learning.

[Goldshot Ron]

Solution found.  As Wiz mentioned, there are spacers that go in front of the bobbin.  I installed extra spacers for a total of 6 spacers to accommodate the heavier thread and retimed the machine to make sure all was correct.  It appears to have solved my problem.

[shoepatcher]

Goldshot Ron,

   Each spacer is numbered with the size of the needle.  180 needle will use a 180 spacer, 200 uses a 200 spacer and so on.  You can use a bigger spacer on a smaller needle but NOT a smaller spacer on a bigger needle!!!

glenn

[Rob2613]

Following this topic. I can buy an Adler 205-374 for about $1400 in The Netherlands. I am looking for a heavy use cylinder arm machine that I can use for making tactical and k9 gear (belts, harnesses etc), and maybe occasional edge binding. Given that the few available used 370 models are priced around $4000 here, I am in doubt wether to buy this 374 model. Does anyone here know if the 374 models use the spacers for different size needles, and if spare parts are still available for these machines. Any information that could help me decide wether to buy or not is greatly appreciated!!!

[Uwe]

The (Durkopp) Adler 205 are *really* nice machines. The 205-374 and 205-370 are perhaps the most desirable version for general leather work.

@Rob2613 that Adler 205-374 would be a bargain at 1400 Euros if it’s in good condition. 

The Adler 205 series machines have been out of production since 2010 (I think), so certain parts may be getting hard to find. 

Durkopp Adler replaced the 205 with the 969 H-Type, which starts around  7000 Euros for a basic model. It’s much bigger and has higher specs than the 205. Consider it if you can afford it. 

Here’s the pamphlet for the Adler 205-374 with specs:

Leaflets_Adler_Class_205-374.pdf

 

@Goldshot Ron, I’m glad you got the problem fixed. The additional spacer rings likely increased the available room inside the shuttle race to make it less likely for thread to get caught between shuttle hook and race. Adding the spacer rings also increased the needle-to-hook distance, but if the hook still reliable catches the loop, then you’re good. 

Since there’s bit of confusion around the spacers, here’s a bit more detail for others who might be following this topic:

There’s actually two types of spacers:

1. The needle spacer shims that you use to adjust the needle guide distance depending on needle size. This is what you change to match the needle size.

2. Spacer rings that go behind the shuttle race to allow you to adjust the hook-to-needle distance. These spacer rings are not affected by needle or thread size. Adler uses very thin rings in various thicknesses that you can mix-and-match and stack to achieve the desired thickness. (Juki 441 class machines use a  single ring, available in various precise dimensions, but not stackable.)

Here’s what the needle spacers shims look like:

 

Here’s what the spacer rings look like:

 

 

This video shows how to remove the shuttle race (although there’s no need to remove the race to install a feed dog.)

 

 

 

Make sure your race lock screw is NOT tightened when you sew. It should only be tightened when you remove the shuttle.

If the race lock screw is tightened, then the shuttle hook will NOT be spring loaded, but fixed. If it’s fixed then it’s more likely to bind up if something like thread gets caught between the shuttle and the race.

Here’s the location of that race lock screw:

 

If you’re new to the Adler 205 or consider buying one, then this video might be helpful in terms of an introduction:

 

This video shows how the stitch is formed on this class of machine. Compare hook position at the very back, and hook timing with your machine.

 

I had a similar problem (thread getting caught in race channel, but only when sewing in reverse) on a Juki TSC-441 class machine once (Cowboy 4500.) 

On that particular machine, the problem was resolved by carefully timing the hook to spec.

Here’s the video showing the problem on the Cowboy 4500. I have a feeling that your problem on the Adler 205 will look a lot like this one. The hook and shuttle race design between the Juki and the Adler are very similar, but not identical. 

 

 

Edited February 4 by Uwe

[Rob2613]

@Uwe Thank you again for sharing your great knowledge about these machines. Your first class video’s about the 205-series are my inspiration to go search for this machine. Unfortunately the newer DA -models are way out of my budget (yet), so I need to get all the information I can get about the 205-374 to make a smart decision about buying one. Do you (or anyone else here) know of a source for these shims besides Weaver Leather, preferably in Europe? The shipping costs from the US to Europe are insane most of the time. And do you know if things like edge guides etc.that are listed for the 205-370, can also be mounted on the 205-374? Thanks again!

[Constabulary]

if you have the parts numbers any Dürkopp-Adler dealer in the Neatherlands should be able to get them for you.

If not check with Liersch, Zieger or Sieck in Germany

https://liersch.com/

https://www.np-z.com

https://www.sieck.de/

 

 

 

Edited February 4 by Constabulary

[Rob2613]

@Constabulary Thank you for your help! Coincidentaly (is that a word?) I checked with Sieck yesterday. They replied that they did not have the shims in stock. I will give the other two dealers you mentioned a try tomorrow

[Rob2613]

The 205-374 I mentioned is an hour drive from me. I will make an aoppointment with the seller to go and check the machine. Are there any specific things to check / test to get an idea of the machine’s condition or warning signs that the machine might be in bad shape? Thanks again!

[shoepatcher]

21 hours ago, Rob2613 said:

@Uwe Thank you again for sharing your great knowledge about these machines. Your first class video’s about the 205-series are my inspiration to go search for this machine. Unfortunately the newer DA -models are way out of my budget (yet), so I need to get all the information I can get about the 205-374 to make a smart decision about buying one. Do you (or anyone else here) know of a source for these shims besides Weaver Leather, preferably in Europe? The shipping costs from the US to Europe are insane most of the time. And do you know if things like edge guides etc.that are listed for the 205-370, can also be mounted on the 205-374? Thanks again!

Yes the flip down roller guides will fit both machines.  You will need and adapter plate on the back to mount the guides.  Weaver leather has them as does Kwok Hing in Hong Kong.   Flip down roller guides are as cheap as $30.00 US on eBay but do NOT include the adapter plates!

glenn 

[Rob2613]

Thank you all again!!!

 

[Goldshot Ron]

@Uwe...yes, the problem that I was having with my 205 was exactly as shown in your video (nice camera also).  To time it, I took off the presser foot cover and the feed dog.  It sure made it easier to time, and see what was going on.  I had to use 6 spacer rings to adjust for the 346 thread.  I am still having some problems sewing in reverse, but that will have to wait for another day.

[Rob2613]

Looks like I have a deal with the seller of a Adler 205-374! Now I have to start thinking about moving this beast to my place. I think I will disconnect the head from the table, and try to move these two parts to my car. Luckily this machine has a servo motor, so the weight of the table should be easy to handle. Does anyone here have an estimate on the weight of the head, and things to consider when moving this machine (besides not dropping it on my foot:))?

 

[Goldshot Ron]

4 of us loaded the machine into the trailer, but I unloaded it alone.  First, lower the table to it's lowest position and tighten the two knobs on the stand.   There is a pistol within the stand that allows for machine height adjustment.  If not secured, the table may spring upward when the head is removed.  I cannot tell you the exact weight of the head, but it feels like about 175 pounds or more.  I moved the head on a hand cart into my shop, and was able to lift it onto my work table.  The stand is not light either, but manageable.  Once inside the shop, I positioned the stand equal to my work bench, and slide the machine onto the stand.  This all sounds simple, but I questioned my logic more than a couple of times during this operation.  Good luck, and happy sewing.

[Uwe]

@Rob2613 the specs on the leaflet show that the 205-374 head by itself weighs 58kg (127 lbs.). You’ll need at least two people to move it safely. I’ve moved a head by myself, but I really don’t recommend it.

You should be able to remove the hand wheel, which weighs quite a bit all by itself. With the hand wheel removed the main shaft stub sticking out makes a good handle for lifting. Don’t lift the head by the hand wheel if you leave it on - it may suddenly rotate and cause you to loose grip. The thick bars/shafts on the back of the machine also make a good grip for lifting the head. 

The head will definitely want to tip to the left once you loosen the bolts that attach it to the table, especially with the hand wheel removed. Remove the bolts on the right side of the base (under the hand wheel) last and have somebody hold up the left end of the head. Then re-install those bolts first when re-mounting the head to the table. 

Lay the machine head gently on its back for transport, don’t keep it upright. It’s very top heavy and wants to fall over. 

The table by itself shouldn’t be too heavy if it’s a standard industrial table with servo motor.

If it’s mounted on a tall metal stand that is common here in the US, it’ll be quite heavy. The stand comes apart in two pieces for transport. The pressurized gas cylinder inside the column is quite strong to balance the weight of the head - be carful when loosening the screws on the column to adjust or remove the top of the column. Here’s picture of that stand (your machine may not have this:)

 

Best of luck moving your machine. Post some pictures when you get a chance!

Edited February 7 by Uwe

[Rob2613]

Thanks again (for the tenth time I guess) for your very practical tips! What tools are recommended for dismantling the Handweel and the head from the table. And do you know the dimensions of the head (max height, width and length) so I can make a crate to transport the head without damage? I will definately post some pictures once I hauled this beast to my home!  Too bad you are located in the US, I would really like to buy one of your table attachments for this machine!

Edited February 7 by Rob2613