Chinese 441's

[AngryDick]

Has anybody purchased one of those 441 clones on like Alibaba straight from china, they appear to be the same machines as Cowboy or Cobra but straight from the manufacturer and about half the cost with shipping.

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[ToddW]

I bought a new cobra Class 26 from Traditions but would have look this way if I knew about it..

[Constabulary]

IIRC sole folks from Downunder imported one or two of them a while ago. But I do not recall who it was.

 

EDIT:

Found some related threads:

https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/94574-tsc-441-clone-from-china/

https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/56853-buying-keestar-sewing-machine-441-directly-from-china/

https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/70913-441-clone-factory-name-and-location/

https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/88115-usa-import-of-441-my-story/

 

Edited March 12, 2024 by Constabulary

[AngryDick]

Wow! Lots of good info, Thanks!

[LiftPig]

Buy once cry once.  

I'd be very nervous buying something this expensive and tempermental from a company I'd never heard of and couldn't call back for support.

[Wizcrafts]

@AngryDick

Are you aware of the various surcharges, fees, and tariffs that you will be liable for in addition to the actual price of the machine and shipping?

If you go ahead and have one drop shipped to you, after paying all the various fees, possibly including a power gate delivery fee, do you have the skill to uncrate, de-grease, deburr, assemble,  time, and mount the machine onto a pedestal table that contains a servo motor (with a switch box) and speed reducer (which requires two type 3L v-belts of different lengths)? I asked one of our dealers how much time they invested in a 441 clone that was in a crate from a well known industrial sewing machine manufacturer in China. He told me it is approximately 6 hours of professional work in their well equipped shop. If you get into a bind, or parts are damaged or missing, who ya gonna call? Do you speak Chinese?

[AngryDick]

Thanks guys, I think I have decided to not risk it.

[toxo]

29 minutes ago, AngryDick said:

Thanks guys, I think I have decided to not risk it.

Although not a 441, I'm expecting a machine at the end of this month. It's had to go the long way around because of the Red Sea situation. My first new machine and I wouldn't have bought it at UK prices. No one is more skeptical than I am but I reasoned that so many machines come from China these days and most reviews are good. Maybe I was lucky but the company I dealt with couldn't have been better. They built my machine the way I wanted it and then sent me a video. Then they sent a video showing every query I threw at them. And this after we had gone through it once with a different machine that I decided to pull out of.

Of course I haven't got it yet so still might end up looking like the biggest fool but if not it'll be interesting to compare my experience with Wiz's scenario. At least I've seen it fully built and even got pics of it crated up ready to go.

[kgg]

23 hours ago, AngryDick said:

Has anybody purchased one of those 441 clones

I purchased my Juki TSC441 clone from a Canadian, Ontario supplier for about 60 percent plus of the more popular names. This included a table which I modified for my needs and brushless servo motor. Kinda hard not to buy when you can save $1500 plus for a similar machine. As long as it is a Juki clone parts / manuals are easy to get should something go wrong but you will be on your own as far as support goes and may have to do some adjustments. On the flip side of the coin is where the brick and mortar dealers excel, support.

kgg

[TomE]

I quit leathercraft ~50 yrs ago to work on cars (I discovered that girls liked cars).  This time around I'd rather work with leather than fuss with machines. Happy to pay a dealer to sort out the machines.  Anything other than thread tension and shuttle timing is above my pay grade.

[AngryDick]

So I have been talking with one of the Chinese 441 Manufacturers and getting all the various charges figured out and I think I might do it, The machine looks exactly like the Cobra Class 4 or Cowboy CB4500, Might even be the actual manufacturer of those machines?

I am taking a shot in the dark but I am going to save $1,500 if everything is as I have figured so far, but even if I save less than that I'll be happy. I have no problem putting things together, troubleshooting and tuning, If I can save money, I'll put the time in. 

Wish me luck!

  

[toxo]

8 minutes ago, AngryDick said:

So I have been talking with one of the Chinese 441 Manufacturers and getting all the various charges figured out and I think I might do it, The machine looks exactly like the Cobra Class 4 or Cowboy CB4500, Might even be the actual manufacturer of those machines?

I am taking a shot in the dark but I am going to save $1,500 if everything is as I have figured so far, but even if I save less than that I'll be happy. I have no problem putting things together, troubleshooting and tuning, If I can save money, I'll put the time in. 

Wish me luck!

  

Make sure you allow for any duty payable. I looked at a site called simply duty I think. Don't know if it's just uk or international.

[junlee]

I got a 341 clone and Juki 246 clone direct from China. Everything worked fine after assembly.  

Edited April 3, 2024 by junlee

[zackjordan]

Late reply to this thread but i just stumbled upon it... So I purchased a 441 clone from alibaba about a year ago. it came right to my door, not a single additional fee i had to pay, no tariffs, import tax, nothing. I think it was $1200 or so including shipping (machine only). so far the thing has been flawless, build quality seems as good anything i've seen and honestly a lot better than buying a well used major brand version IMO. the name on it is JIANG LONG, and it's the long arm version.  

I also bought a Global 217zz with cam reader a few years ago since i was unable to find a good 4-point zz machine anywhere (although i recently picked up a bernina with cam reader for $300 complete/first owner but I still prefer the Global). Similar experience with that machine, i think it was about $1500 to my door (machine only).  I switch back and forth between it and the Bernina i picked up recently and the global is very close to as smooth operating as the bernina, and the global has 12mm width vs 6mm for the Bernina, plus it has a puller. For me, the extra features, and almost identical performance make it a winner. I need to/should sell the bernina but i haven't been able to yet, its such a sweet machine, 1 owner, came with manual and a bunch of cams for so cheap... 

[dikman]

You did well, Zack. The final cost, however, will depend on the country you're in. I'm in Australia and a few years back looked into buying a 441 clone head unit from China. Bear in mind that we're reasonably close to China so you would expect shipping to be reasonable. By the time I took into account various shipping/handling/brokerage/customs/import etc fees there was little to be gained from buying one here so I bought a 4500 locally for about the same price. And since then shipping costs have skyrocketed!!

[airstream]

I imported a 441 clone direct from china,  i couldn’t fault the companies service,  i received the machine within a week of paying for it and saved over £1500 on buying it in the uk  the machine as been faultless.

[toxo]

I had the same experience with a 341 clone. Each time I questioned an aspect of the machine, they took the trouble to send a video, ie one stitch at a time, same hole reverse etc etc. 

I don't  think some people on here realise that the machines they're denigrating now have top brand (non Chinese) labels on em all over the world. 

[ElfLeather]

I've got a 246 clone on order. manufacturer is Jianglong, should be here in a few weeks. I figure it's a dice throw, but so far I've heard nothing but good things about these machines. 

They handled the customs and shipping, I paid $650 all told. Talking with the rep wasn't too bad, but a friend walked me through how to deal with Chinese manufacturers. 

If anyone wants info, pics, video, etc., let me know, I'll happily post about it, sink or swim