Handmade vs designer

[Johanna]

I have a friend who is into designer purses. I told her that we had been discussing getting fair money for hand made hand carved custom handbags... You aren't going to believe what she showed me:

This is The Bag Forum (pics of purses celebrities carry, too)

The Purse Blog or Purse Forum (note the # of posts!)

The Bag Snob (OMG! Look at the prices!)

Bag Trends I can't imagine this world

Personally, I have seen very few well made designer purses. My friends don't carry designer purses anyway. But the next time one of you give someone a low price for a real honest to goodness custom leather purse, go look at these links again. These women are carrying around imported junk that costs more than my car is worth because of a label...a reputation. Prestige. I would like to think lots of women are smarter than that, and would prefer a leatherworker's real deal custom purse to that above...ummm "stuff". (Don't know how to say it politely!) Maybe some of you should join one of those groups and show your talent, and let the rich ladies line up with their credit cards. I'm going to have bad dreams tonight of Paris Hilton's gold lame diaperbag looking plasticky thing! (shiver!)

Johanna

[The Major]

Holy crap. And I feel guilty charging $75 for a small clutch. I really need to reconsider my thinking.

[Dan Hammons]

quote name='Johanna' date='Feb 6 2007, 10:40 PM' post='2072']

I have a friend who is into designer purses. I told her that we had been discussing getting fair money for hand made hand carved custom handbags... You aren't going to believe what she showed me:

This is The Bag Forum (pics of purses celebrities carry, too)

The Purse Blog or Purse Forum (note the # of posts!)

The Bag Snob (OMG! Look at the prices!)

O M G is right !!! And to think I sold that Rose Purse for $150 We need to find a way to get these women to see our products !! I was thinking how nice a Market Place Handbag would look tooled with a rose pattern on it but was wondering who would pay $1000 for a purse. Now I know but you must realize that these type of people probably won't buy it unless you put a price tag on it of $1500 or more cuz how much they paid means something to them also. I'm Thinking about this very hard!!! This is the only Market Place Handbag I have made.

[Prince]

I too find it insensible the prices that are paid for absolute crap, and when someone goes to the effort of actually putting labor into something (as opposed to an overseas sweat shop or the like produced by the thousands) they can barely charge minimum wage for their time/overhead half the time. I can see how it works with the cheapo Taiwan or Chinese etc. stuff that undercuts our prices with sheer overwhelming volume. That just happens, people like buying cheap stuff. But when the same crap has a 1000$ plus tag slapped on it, and it sells, it just blows my mind.

So what is the trick to exploring the profits of the aristocracy market? If I get serious with my business I'll probably have 2 business titles. One for the common sales, the bread and butter stuff, and another that is completely separate and doesn't even mention the consumer business and have nothing but the best stuff for 1000$ and up and advertise the holy hell out of it. That too is probably one problem with the lone craftsman, not enough sales volume to pay for massive advertising nor the output capacity to support demand if advertising could be paid for.

Then what do you do if you want to increase your income and output? Well, you see the answer to that with the mass produced imported junk.

[esantoro]

I too find it insensible the prices that are paid for absolute crap, and when someone goes to the effort of actually putting labor into something (as opposed to an overseas sweat shop or the like produced by the thousands) they can barely charge minimum wage for their time/overhead half the time. I can see how it works with the cheapo Taiwan or Chinese etc. stuff that undercuts our prices with sheer overwhelming volume. That just happens, people like buying cheap stuff. But when the same crap has a 1000$ plus tag slapped on it, and it sells, it just blows my mind.

So what is the trick to exploring the profits of the aristocracy market? If I get serious with my business I'll probably have 2 business titles. One for the common sales, the bread and butter stuff, and another that is completely separate and doesn't even mention the consumer business and have nothing but the best stuff for 1000$ and up and advertise the holy hell out of it. That too is probably one problem with the lone craftsman, not enough sales volume to pay for massive advertising nor the output capacity to support demand if advertising could be paid for.

Then what do you do if you want to increase your income and output? Well, you see the answer to that with the mass produced imported junk.

On the rare occasion I'm at an airport, I like to look in the bag shops to get some design ideas. For example, The front bottom strap retainers on my briefcases are "inspired" by what I saw in a Ferrari shop at the international airport in Milan. Many of the bags there were very simple veg tan bags selling for $900 and more.

I was at JFK picking up my fiancee the other day and was looking at Ferragamo bags and couldn't believe what was selling for $1750. I really believe that my bags are better constructed. Many of these expensive mass produced bags are designed in a way that is easy to manufacture.

I think men are willing to buy a bag/satchel/briefcase if they like it and are willing to pay at least up to $700, even without a designer label. But I think for women it is important that they know they are getting the designer label.

[esantoro]

I have a friend who is into designer purses. I told her that we had been discussing getting fair money for hand made hand carved custom handbags... You aren't going to believe what she showed me:

This is The Bag Forum (pics of purses celebrities carry, too)

The Purse Blog or Purse Forum (note the # of posts!)

The Bag Snob (OMG! Look at the prices!)

Bag Trends I can't imagine this world

Personally, I have seen very few well made designer purses. My friends don't carry designer purses anyway. But the next time one of you give someone a low price for a real honest to goodness custom leather purse, go look at these links again. These women are carrying around imported junk that costs more than my car is worth because of a label...a reputation. Prestige. I would like to think lots of women are smarter than that, and would prefer a leatherworker's real deal custom purse to that above...ummm "stuff". (Don't know how to say it politely!) Maybe some of you should join one of those groups and show your talent, and let the rich ladies line up with their credit cards. I'm going to have bad dreams tonight of Paris Hilton's gold lame diaperbag looking plasticky thing! (shiver!)

Johanna

It would be a good idea for the leatherworking community to put up its own leatherbag website to challenge the mass produced designer junk.

Some retailers have stores where you can buy a range of products from key fobs to briefcases to shoulder bags to coin trays.

I have ideas for three versions and sizes of one briefcase, a messenger bag, maybe two purse type bags for women, and that's about it. I don't have any ideas or desire to create a range of products beyond that. What if we could start a leatherworker.net online store. we would then have a large range of products, and leatherworkers might be interested in moving toward or be influenced by certain designs, so that a certain style could be built up around certain products.

This could be something that evolves gradually.

[Johanna]

A leatherworking store? Hmmm... This is the closest I've done so far:

http://www.leatherworker.net/teasers/index.htm

and it only showcases member websites.

Me, I would pay more for a handmade custom bag, but I'm one of the minority of consumers that know the difference. My designer handbag friend has brought me many a purse to sew, rivet or repair (cheap construction, shoddy materials) and my own handmade items just need a little Dr. Jackson's Hide Rejuvenator once or twice a year. I would not choke on the price of Ed's bags, because of the quality, but the average consumer might, and buy a nylon one from a box store. The only way to change that common perception is education.

Johanna

[ClayB]

A leatherworking store? Hmmm...

I kind of like the idea of an online leather store. For those of us that don't have a store front, or a website, and just dont like the idea of being a saleman at all, it would be nice to have a place to try and sell the stuff we make. There used to be a place called the Leather Maul that tried to do that, but it's no longer around. When I have spare time, I like to carve. I dont want to be a salesman, and I am tired of hearing "OMG, you want how much?" I'd much rather pay a commission to someone else than to deal with people like that.

Clay

[LAPat]

Ahhh, handbags. I love them and I don't have a single fabulous one. I am thinking that I will have to make myself one as a project.

I live in L.A. and have a doctor in Beverly HIlls. On the way to his office, I pass Saks Fifth Avenue. Now I used to shop at Saks when I was a young film exec and had no sense, but when I went in last week I was both amazed and intrigued at the ground floor merchandise.

All shoes and handbags. A small boutique inside the store for each label. Prices from $1500 to $4500 for a handbag. Forget the shoes.

I could trash this merchandise for the decadence of it all. And it's hard to fathom that kind of spare change. But saw objects that were undeniably attractive. And I was very interested in hardware and combinations of lacing and braiding and leathers and so on. In other words, I was adding to my brain reserve all sorts of ideas and information that I will use somehow. How is up to the gods. And I think that this is a market that artisans should become aware of and track for trends. That is, if the object is to bring leatherwork into the twenty first century and make ourselves prosperous. Frankly, if I had more experience and more money, alot more money, I would be tempted to buy something to copy to learn from.

Of course the idea of a five thousand dollar purse is disturbing, and the world of retail therapy is a powerful and double edged sword (I ventiure to quess we have all bought something to make us feel good, use money and how we spend it to reflect our values, dreams and priorities, and can be respectful and frivolous in what we spend on). But that people will spend the money they have on things made of leather, that I want to be able to attract to myself. Even if it's four thousand dollars...

I am a rank beginner and may never go far. I really don't even know alot about the best artisan leatherworkers in the country yet. I probably know more about mass produced designer goods. But I think all of this is fascinating. And speaking of Paris Hilton, I wonder who on this forum sells to celebrities and if they market themselves so, and if not, why not. Or is this a separate thread?

L.A. Pat

[esantoro]

This will blow your mind:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BEAUTY-Hermes-MARTINI-...1QQcmdZViewItem

I don't even think a bag like this is all that difficult to make.

[esantoro]

I have a couple of ideas for women's bags. One bag I caught a glimpse of in s Sunsilk shampoo commercial. I'm trying to locate that commercial so I can save a still image of the bag to find out who makes it. All I can say now is that it's a tan/light brown bag.

[Johanna]

**Johanna picks herself up off the floor after looking at a Hermes bag for $56,000.

(If I spend that kind of money, it better have doorknobs and windows and a mailbox in front!)

Pat, when I used to have a shop, I used to fix one or two of those fancy bags every week. They often use crappy hardware and leather-like material on designer bags, but they do have a fancy label and price tag to justify the price. Regardless, you made an excellent point about noting the trends, and modernizing "classic designs". We have to do this in order to put a $300 tag on a purse that's actually worth the money (it will last a lifetime plus) and SELL it.

Johanna

[Zilla]

**Johanna picks herself up off the floor after looking at a Hermes bag for $56,000.

(If I spend that kind of money, it better have doorknobs and windows and a mailbox in front!)

I use to work at Neiman Marcus Store #1 in beautiful downtown Dallas. It use to just amaze me the prices on mass produced bags and shoes but we all know we are paying for the "name". Personaly I can't stand being a walking billboard with some high fliute'n designer. Shoot I even rip off the "wrangler, levi, etc." labels off my jeans. But yet I am willing to spend hundreds of dollars on a nice and good pair of boots.

I think as artists we in the leather "crafting" hobby/business are faced with what is offered to us pattern wise from the likes of Tandy who is promoting the "Western" type of leather kits and patterns. Now don't get me wrong here...Personally I love the whole heavily tooled floral designs. I understand the hours and skill it takes to produce those items and can only wish I could do it as well as many of the craftsmen/women here on this forum but we are talking tooling and carving here. Buffy Trophy Wife isn't going to want a Sheridan style purse or wallet when she is lunching with the Jr. League. She is not going to appreciate the hours of craftsmanship and because it's "hand made" won't pay the price while Cowgirl Sue won't blink an eyelash at digging into her purse for the same thing.

If you take the time to look at what sells commercially there is no "crafting" to it. A big name sat down and doodled an idea and sent it to someone else to mock up then it's sent to Aisa and massed produced under god awful conditions for pennies on the dollar. Shipped to these high end stores and because it has a "name" on it the public is willing to fork out hundreds and thousands of dollars for it.

A few years ago I learned a lesson. I was knitting shrugs and ponchos on a machine. If I put handmade on the item people would try to jew me down on the price but if I made a bigger ta-do about the fiber content they wouldn't and pay the price asked for.

The terms Hand Crafted, Hand Finished make a lot more money than Handmade.

Ok so I'll get off my soapbox

Kevin

[Art]

Hi Johanna,

Unlike some of the mass produced "upscale" bags, the Hermes bags are hand made one offs. The hardware is 18k Gold, Ruthenium, Platinum, or Palladium, hand stitching; a really quality bag that usually retails at around $5-$10k although gems can push that wayyy up, and our Dollar's demise against the Euro will be making new ones even higher. I don't see anything in THAT bag that should command that high a price as the saltwater crocodile (Crocodylus porosus) is farmed and redily available. Most of that price is probably the buy a brand new Birkin bag without the 2 or so year wait; there is a premium for EVERYTHING. These things are knocked off readily so if buying, one really has to be careful. The hardware is the most difficult thing to duplicate in that bag, the quality of materials and construction next.

Nice bag but I like the Kellys much better, but I'm old school.

Art

**Johanna picks herself up off the floor after looking at a Hermes bag for $56,000.

(If I spend that kind of money, it better have doorknobs and windows and a mailbox in front!)

[Suze]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7082001554.html

Didn't go to any of the sites Johanna posted - But have you all seen this one?

$52,500 for something that looks like the box of old purses in the bottom of my closet.

What stupit "new rich" people buy to "show off"

And I agree with Johanna, Spend that much money it better have a doorknob -

Do any of you now have a picture of a leather purse with a real doorknob attached yet?

http://www.creativityinstitute.com/index.a...amp;ProdID=1638

How about this - does it count?

Edited September 21, 2007 by Suze

[LAPat]

One day I saw a woman with a purse that had handcuffs on the straps. It was pretty rock and roll, but I admired her for taking something from one milieu and using it in another. She told me that she was selling the purses for $400 and up. And it was the handcuffs that sold them. So hardware is another interesting area to explore.

I know a lot of leatherworkers are traditionalists and masters as such. Myself I'm on the lookout for old aka "vintage" hardware that I can play with and art from other disciplines that I can explore. Eventually...

A related expereince. When my dog died I was thinking about a tattoo. But I couldn't find anyone that did portraiture that was not doing black line art. And the style was not for me. And I discovered that tattoo art, similar to leathercraft, uses a tremendous number of "flash" pieces, or pre-existing patterns. I was surprised. I mean I know a heart is a heart, and I know that you can combine pre-existing patterns to make something new, and I even believe that most art is nothing but a combination of what has gone before. But I expected to find more original rendering in more styles.

I'm a fine artist, but I don't have a great line, I do better with paint and charcoal and other media that are blendable and malleable. In other words, I carve from light and dark. Which is why I'm attracted to leatherwork. But because I want to do dog art, I am going to have to make my own patterns. And because I'm interested in contemporary or "modern" design, I am on the lookout for that as well.

In any case I have learned alot from this thread as from all of the ones I've read. And I think this is a very vibrant community that is very capable of taking leathercraft into the twenty first century.

When Kevin says there is no craft to what women spend money on, what I hear is an opportunity. It's the way that craft is applied, and I agree that Sheridan is not going to be the next big trend... unless it's turned on its ear. And unless someone gets that kind of stuff into the hands of every trend setter in the country.

By the way, does anyone out there do a decent belt for a cell phone. A very thin, flat holster that actually holds the damn thing for quick draw but doesn't allow it to fall out if you bend over? And doesn't bulk up under a jacket? That you could use on a Calvin Klein suit? Hmmm... See I think that sort of thing would sell, at least to me.

But is it a purse? And do earsets already make this idea useless? Now if I could just find a way to improve on a leash... and get Paris Hilton to use it...

L.A. Pat

[Jordan]

It is truely bizarre what people with lots of cash will spend it on. Gotta find a way for them to send some in my direction.