Black block dye rubbing off

[BrainTannedKiwi]

Hey guys I make embossed belts with block dyed two tone patterns, my process is dye base a color say red, then block dye with black. Let dry come back the next day and two coats of resolene with buffing in between, but I've experienced some of the black still rubbing off and fading how should I fix this? I'm using near fiebings leather dye (alchohol) non diluted. I was thinking of dyeing black first maybe so it penetrates then going over with base color, im worried it will still rub off and darken the base color as it seems like the black is the hardest to absorb. is there any way to make it absorb easier, i have tried diluting it but hasnt seemed to help that much.

Edited Monday at 08:15 AM by BrainTannedKiwi

[billybopp]

3 hours ago, BrainTannedKiwi said:

Hey guys I make embossed belts with block dyed two tone patterns, my process is dye base a color say red, then block dye with black. Let dry come back the next day and two coats of resolene with buffing in between, but I've experienced some of the black still rubbing off and fading how should I fix this? I'm using near fiebings leather dye (alchohol) non diluted. I was thinking of dyeing black first maybe so it penetrates then going over with base color, im worried it will still rub off and darken the base color as it seems like the black is the hardest to absorb. is there any way to make it absorb easier, i have tried diluting it but hasnt seemed to help that much.

Most dyes will rub off a little bit.  Avoid USMC black - it's notorious for a LOT of rub off.  I use fiebings pro black, and get a little rub off, but not much.

- Bill

 

[Northmount]

7 hours ago, BrainTannedKiwi said:

Hey guys I make embossed belts with block dyed two tone patterns, my process is dye base a color say red, then block dye with black. Let dry come back the next day and two coats of resolene with buffing in between, but I've experienced some of the black still rubbing off and fading how should I fix this?

Buff well before adding a finish.  The finish is to seal the article including any dyes, paint, antique, etc.  If you don't buff well before adding the finish, the surface particles get picked up, spread around and mixed in with the finish.  Then as you do excessive buffing of the finish, you remove some of the finish, including the dyes that got mixed in with it. 

Moving your post to "Dyes, Antiques, Stains, Glues, Waxes, Finishes and Conditioners".  You should look through posts in this area as well.

 

[BrainTannedKiwi]

15 hours ago, billybopp said:

Most dyes will rub off a little bit.  Avoid USMC black - it's notorious for a LOT of rub off.  I use fiebings pro black, and get a little rub off, but not much.

- Bill

 

ok ill get some next time i order dye, will i be able to use usmc coloured dye with the pro black on top or should i not mix them thanks for response

[BrainTannedKiwi]

11 hours ago, Northmount said:

Buff well before adding a finish.  The finish is to seal the article including any dyes, paint, antique, etc.  If you don't buff well before adding the finish, the surface particles get picked up, spread around and mixed in with the finish.  Then as you do excessive buffing of the finish, you remove some of the finish, including the dyes that got mixed in with it. 

Moving your post to "Dyes, Antiques, Stains, Glues, Waxes, Finishes and Conditioners".  You should look through posts in this area as well.

 

I usually buff it a decent amount before finishing maybe not enough, I also dont let the coloured base coat dry over night before putting on the black would that be a problem and you also recommend pro dye instead of alcohol for the rub off?

[Northmount]

7 minutes ago, BrainTannedKiwi said:

I also dont let the coloured base coat dry over night before putting on the black would that be a problem

Each application of dye should be allowed to fully dry and be buffed before the next step.

I didn't recommend Pro Dye, but yes, it is better.  The dye is an oil rather than a powdered pigment that stays on the surface.

[Dwight]

First thing . . . ALWAYS dilute feibings dyes . . . at least 2 dye to 1 thinner.  Preferably . . . 50 / 50 . . . has always worked great for me.

Second . . . you are wasting good money putting the red on first.  Forget that step . . . unless it is some kind of a two tone effect you are trying to achieve.  If you want straight black . . . then dye black . . . period.

Third . . . let it FULLY . . . FULLY . . . dry . . .  24 hours does it pretty good usually.

4th . . . buff with a dry cloth . . . alcohol should NOT be involved . . . best cloth is an old tee shirt . . . or an old bath towel.  Buff until you do not get any more rub off.

That is the way not to get any rub off later.

I do not get any rub off whatsoever using the above technique . . . and I finish with one or two light coats of resolene . . . cut 50 / 50 with water.

May God bless,

Dwight

[BrainTannedKiwi]

7 minutes ago, Dwight said:

First thing . . . ALWAYS dilute feibings dyes . . . at least 2 dye to 1 thinner.  Preferably . . . 50 / 50 . . . has always worked great for me.

Second . . . you are wasting good money putting the red on first.  Forget that step . . . unless it is some kind of a two tone effect you are trying to achieve.  If you want straight black . . . then dye black . . . period.

Third . . . let it FULLY . . . FULLY . . . dry . . .  24 hours does it pretty good usually.

4th . . . buff with a dry cloth . . . alcohol should NOT be involved . . . best cloth is an old tee shirt . . . or an old bath towel.  Buff until you do not get any more rub off.

That is the way not to get any rub off later.

I do not get any rub off whatsoever using the above technique . . . and I finish with one or two light coats of resolene . . . cut 50 / 50 with water.

May God bless,

Dwight

yea i do two toned effects on all belts with embossing, and i let it fully dry. I will try diluting the black, i am worried that it will bleed more into the pattern  because it will be more runny but will give it a go. i am using your exact resolene method too, must be the dye. the cloth i use for buffing is also dirty that probably doesnt help.. do you use pro dye?

2 hours ago, Northmount said:

Each application of dye should be allowed to fully dry and be buffed before the next step.

I didn't recommend Pro Dye, but yes, it is better.  The dye is an oil rather than a powdered pigment that stays on the surface.

yea ok sweet will keep that in mind, would that help the black penetrate in more?

[Dwight]

I use Feibing oil dye and pro dye . . . exclusively . . . only 4 colors . . . always 50 /50 diluted.

That keeps the expected results always predictable . . . or reasonably so anyway.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Northmount]

8 hours ago, BrainTannedKiwi said:

yea ok sweet will keep that in mind, would that help the black penetrate in more?

Obviously oil soaks in more so than a pigment that mostly lies on the surface.

[BrainTannedKiwi]

15 hours ago, Northmount said:

Obviously oil soaks in more so than a pigment that mostly lies on the surface.

yea makes a lot of sense thank you

[BrainTannedKiwi]

 

18 hours ago, Dwight said:

I use Feibing oil dye and pro dye . . . exclusively . . . only 4 colors . . . always 50 /50 diluted.

That keeps the expected results always predictable . . . or reasonably so anyway.

May God bless,

Dwight

i will get some ordered soon then, do you dilute with neatsfoot or alcohol?

[Dwight]

21 hours ago, BrainTannedKiwi said:

 

i will get some ordered soon then, do you dilute with neatsfoot or alcohol?

Neither . . . Feibing sells their own reducer . . . I wouldn't use anything else.  Others get away with it (or say they do) . . . using other stuff . . . 

THIS works . . . first time . . . every time

May God bless,

Dwight