Patcher Sewing Machine Question

[Dwight]

I have been wondering . . . as I see folks talk about the 200 or 300 dollar chinese shoe repair machines.

Does the head swivel on these or is it totally stationary like on most other machines?

Reason I ask . . . our local dry cleaner guy lost his patch sewing person . . . and I've toyed with the idea of getting a patch sewing machine.

Just need some good recommendations and / or warnings . . .

May God bless,

Dwight

[DieselTech]

47 minutes ago, Dwight said:

I have been wondering . . . as I see folks talk about the 200 or 300 dollar chinese shoe repair machines.

Does the head swivel on these or is it totally stationary like on most other machines?

Reason I ask . . . our local dry cleaner guy lost his patch sewing person . . . and I've toyed with the idea of getting a patch sewing machine.

Just need some good recommendations and / or warnings . . .

May God bless,

Dwight

Is this the type of patcher you are thinking of? Or the really really cheap cobbler type patcher?

[TonyV]

The $100 chinese patchers have a swiveling foot, sews in any direction.  Use this function instead of turning the project, which can bend or break the

needle.  They are definitely troublesome, especially at first, but can turn out fairly good work once you learn the quirks and how to adjust them correctly.  I only use mine for personal items, not for gifts (I don't sell any of my stuff).

If I had known about the one DieselTech referenced, I might have got that one instead.

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, Dwight said:

Reason I ask . . . our local dry cleaner guy lost his patch sewing person . . . and I've toyed with the idea of getting a patch sewing machine.

Just need some good recommendations and / or warnings

@Dwight

I am a professional patch sewer. I sew for MCs. As such, I'd like to respectfully pass on this advice to you. If you intend to get into the patching business to make money, especially from bikers in MCs, don't dink around with f'n Chinese sh*t. Invest in either a good condition used Singer 29k71 or 29k72, or an Adler 30-1, -7, 0r -70. Also, try to find one that is already on a powered steel base. The Singer patchers were usually mounted on cast iron treadle bases that require a lot of foot power, plus hand spinning the balance wheel to get the treadle going in the right direction. The Adlers on steel power bases have 1/2 HP clutch motors that start spinning the right direction on their own. The clutch motors are easy to adjust for slack before they engage. Or, you can replace the motor with a servo motor to save weight, noise and heat.

Here's the difference in bobbin sizes between the aforementioned models.

• The Singer 29k71 was made in Scotland and has a 12" arm, with a 5" vertical harp, and takes a small (read, tiny) bobbin that is 5/8 wide by just under 1/4 inch deep, outside. It only holds 3/16 X ~8/16 inches of thread inside. The nose is 1 inch wide by 7/8" deep and gets into tight front pockets. The balance wheel is mounted on the right read. It is best limited to Number 69 bonded nylon thread. Use a #18 round point needle.
• The Singer 29k72 has a 17 inch arm and takes a larger bobbin. The nose is 1.25 inches wide. It may struggle sewing  patches onto front pockets if the patch is close to the sides or bottom of the pocket. It holds about twice as much thread. This model can sew with up to #138 thread. Use #69 for patches on thinner pockets, or #92 on thicker leathers. If you have to open the bottom or a side, use #138 thread with a #22 leather point needle to close them after your patches are sewn on. The needles to stock are #18, 19 and 22.
• The Singer patchers originally used system 29 needles, which are obsolete. They didn't have a cutout scarf. We now use System 135x 16 (leather) and 135x17 (cloth) needles, which are the same geometry, but have a scarf that the hook can pass through to pick off the thread loop. These machines are pretty much limited to a maximum sewn thickness of 5/16". But, I find they struggle past 1/4 inch.
• The Adler 30-1 has a small bobbin and an 18 inch long arm. The balance wheel in mounted on the front right side. Use #69 thread and a #18 round point needle for patches.
• The Adler 30-7 and 30-70 have 18: arms and take a Singer large bobbin and shuttle. They can easily sew with thread sizes from #69 through 138, and even #207 (on short seams). These Adlers use a much longer needle than the Singers: System 332LLG (round point) or 332 LLLG (leather point). Thus, they are able to walk and sew higher, sewing into 3/8 of an inch seams.

I use the 29k71 to sew patches over front pockets, or inside pockets that the patch gets close to the inside of the pocket lining. I use the long arm machine to sew farther into big pockets that might have a thicker seam that the Singer can clear or sew through. I use the Adler about 90% of the time.

Another difficulty you are going to experience is that a lot of the vests being sold now have a zip-open back lining for a cooling pad or bullet proof insert. The owners may not want that lining closed when you sew on club patches. For these jobs, a long arm Adler (or Claes) patcher is a must have machine. The Adler can get 18 inches in from the zipper before you need to start folding the bottom to get near the top for upper rockers.

As for thread, buy good quality #69 (T70) bonded nylon or bonded polyester thread. Stock it in black, white, straw, light brown, medium brown, dark brown, red, bright yellow, gold, orange and some shades of blue and maybe green and gray. Buy Schmetz needles if possible. As mentioned, use #18 with #69 thread, top and bottom.

Regarding invisible thread; it can sew over any color border. But, the stubs where you cut it are strong and can irritate the skin if they touch the rider's body. Monofilament doesn't lies as flat as twisted strands in bonded thread.

[Dwight]

@WizcraftsThanks for all the good information . . . but I'm actually only looking for mostly doing things like name tags above the shirt pocket . . . company logo on a shirt . . . stripes on sleeves for military . . . the kind of stuff that many people just cannot or will not do on a regular sewing machine.

And if a biker brought in a dozen patches . . . yeah . . . him too.

I was thinking more along the lines of the one @DieselTech showed up above . . . and even at that price . . . I'd be a long time probably getting my money back on patches alone.  But it would be a service offered . . . which would bring folks into the leather shop . . . and who knows what they might decide that they cannot live without.

That actually looks like a pretty decent looking machine.  Is that the type where the head swivels as well?

Thanks and may God bless,

Dwight

[Wizcrafts]

@Dwight

That's a whole nuther aspect of sewing patches than I described. You'll be sewing cloth patches onto cloth garments. The garments will be much more flexible than leather vests. You'll probably be using a lot of Olive Drab 50 weight garment sewing thread. That calls for a #14 needle and a gentle machine. A singer patcher will handle the job, as will a post bed machine. The Chinese shoe patches are pretty rough in the castings and will need to be gone over with Emory cloth to smooth out any rough spots that could cut the cloth.

FWIIW, my Daddy was a tailor. For the longest time we had the tailor shop on the ground floor where the 5th Army was housed. He sewed patches onto uniforms and dress shirts. I removed the old ones for him. He sewed every patch on a Singer 31-15 straight stitch machine. I think he hand sewed the ones on sleeves. He didn't know about patchers. That's something I accidentally fell into.

In case you weren't aware, patchers are top fed by the teeth on the presser foot. There is a small hole in the needle plate, which is polished steel. All true patchers have butterfly handles to rotate the foot over 360 degrees. Whatever machine you end up getting, learn to reduce the foot pressure and thread tensions to avoid damaging the patches or cloth garments. Typically, patchers are built and setup to sew shoe leather, not cotton shirts.

[Dwight]

On 12/23/2024 at 2:29 AM, Wizcrafts said:

@Dwight

That's a whole nuther aspect of sewing patches than I described. You'll be sewing cloth patches onto cloth garments. The garments will be much more flexible than leather vests. You'll probably be using a lot of Olive Drab 50 weight garment sewing thread. That calls for a #14 needle and a gentle machine. A singer patcher will handle the job, as will a post bed machine. The Chinese shoe patches are pretty rough in the castings and will need to be gone over with Emory cloth to smooth out any rough spots that could cut the cloth.

FWIIW, my Daddy was a tailor. For the longest time we had the tailor shop on the ground floor where the 5th Army was housed. He sewed patches onto uniforms and dress shirts. I removed the old ones for him. He sewed every patch on a Singer 31-15 straight stitch machine. I think he hand sewed the ones on sleeves. He didn't know about patchers. That's something I accidentally fell into.

In case you weren't aware, patchers are top fed by the teeth on the presser foot. There is a small hole in the needle plate, which is polished steel. All true patchers have butterfly handles to rotate the foot over 360 degrees. Whatever machine you end up getting, learn to reduce the foot pressure and thread tensions to avoid damaging the patches or cloth garments. Typically, patchers are built and setup to sew shoe leather, not cotton shirts.

Thaks, Wiz . . . this is just one of those things a guy looks at and says "I could do that" . . . 

I actually have sewn on just about all my patches for Navy and National Guard . . . regular Singer sewing machine . . . 

I just figured since there is a market . . . might jump in it . . . plus it would give me another machine in the shop for "stuff" . . . and I could actually use one more between my Cowboy and my Singer . . . do more than the Singer . . .  but not as much as the Cowboy.

Gonna have to add a 8 x 12 room to the back of my shop first . . . that is my spring project if all goes well.

May God bless,

Dwight

[DieselTech]

3 hours ago, Dwight said:

Thaks, Wiz . . . this is just one of those things a guy looks at and says "I could do that" . . . 

I actually have sewn on just about all my patches for Navy and National Guard . . . regular Singer sewing machine . . . 

I just figured since there is a market . . . might jump in it . . . plus it would give me another machine in the shop for "stuff" . . . and I could actually use one more between my Cowboy and my Singer . . . do more than the Singer . . .  but not as much as the Cowboy.

Gonna have to add a 8 x 12 room to the back of my shop first . . . that is my spring project if all goes well.

May God bless,

Dwight

Don't know if you care or not. But figured I would mention it. They make a 29k72B or might be a 73 clone, with a 18" arm & big bobbin. It is quite a bit more money thou. Like $850-$950 

[Dwight]

9 hours ago, DieselTech said:

Don't know if you care or not. But figured I would mention it. They make a 29k72B or might be a 73 clone, with a 18" arm & big bobbin. It is quite a bit more money thou. Like $850-$950 

Thank you . . . 

May God bless

Dwight

[GerryR]

I have had one of the inexpensive Chinese Patchers for years and I have built and sold a couple for others.  I motorize them with a servo motor.  The newer patchers have frames made from an alloy cast and are quite smooth, not like the older sand-cast iron machines that needed some clean-up prior to use.  They sew fine and I have not found them to be "problematic."  They sew up to 20 oz. leather.  I've made duty belts, holster carriers for chest holsters, watch carriers for pocket watches and a variety of other small items.  The bobbins hold approximately 25 ft. of #69 thread, 20 ft. of #92 thread and 16 ft. of #138 thread.  I haven't tried anything bigger than #138 thread.

I have a portable, clamp to a table or bench, unit for sale at present.  It is servo driven, and is in your price range I believe.  If interested, PM me and we can possibly talk a deal; price is negotiable.  It is advertised on this forum here: 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by GerryR