Milky liquid when tooling…

[ThisIsMyFirstRodeo]

Hey all, 

Well the title kinda says it all: here and there while I’m actively stamping, a thin milky liquid will rise to the surface. 

Yes, water rising probably means that I’m casing too much, but that’s not the question. I had thought that perhaps I hadn’t rinsed the soap off thoroughly from cleaning the leather before working it, but then I noticed it even when I hadn’t cleaned it first.

Wish I had a pic to show, but it’s not something I think about when it happens, and I have yet to find rhyme or rhythm to encourage it. Thanks for any insight.

—AZR

[fredk]

What type of leather are you using? I don't mean 'veg tan' but more specifically

[AlZilla]

1 hour ago, ThisIsMyFirstRodeo said:

Well the title kinda says it all: here and there while I’m actively stamping, a thin milky liquid will rise to the surface. 

 

The same hide, or totally different hides? That at least isolates it to the hide or something you're doing.

[chuck123wapati]

What did you clean it for, and what did you clean it with?  its probably the soap.

Edited 15 hours ago by chuck123wapati

[Hags]

Ditto Chuck. I just case mine, and that is an overstatement. I really just get it wet until it quits soaking it up fast. But I only use 8/9 for the most part.

[bland]

If there is any liquid coming up from the leather while tooling the leather is still too wet.  The top grain should almost be the same color as it was before you got it wet.    

[bruce johnson]

Yes, Obviously too wet when you are stamping and fluid squeezes out but I have had that milky fluid with some leathers. My thoughts are it is some of the oils and treatment in the leathers. Before we kick the can here, it happened mostly to me with Argentine vegtan leather from the Sadesa Tannery. Sadesa was some of the cleanest and finest leather I have tooled. Not all foreign leather is cheap urine smelling crap contrary to keyboard advice. Sadesa did not get as boardy after casing and tooling like some leathers do. The word was that it had more treatments. 

  Casing is an art, but not rocket science. There are wipe and go/rewet as needed people, drown it and air it for a day people, and a lot of wet it/bag it, and set aside folks.   Some good toolers wipe on something like saddle soap or baby shampoo and slick before tooling. My casing mix is milky to start with. Water- Lexol - baby shampoo - Listerine. Herman Oak and some others that tended to be "drier" I used more Lexol in the mix. This mix gave me more working time, better burnish, better molding, and more even oiling and dying afterwards. Everyone else's mileage will vary. If plain old water works - great. The bottom line is stay with a consistent leather tannage and learn what works with that leather. Then you aren't trying to figure out the moisture amount and time for even penetration on every new piece of leather you get.

[ThisIsMyFirstRodeo]

4 hours ago, bruce johnson said:

Yes, Obviously too wet when you are stamping and fluid squeezes out but I have had that milky fluid with some leathers. My thoughts are it is some of the oils and treatment in the leathers. Before we kick the can here, it happened mostly to me with Argentine vegtan leather from the Sadesa Tannery. Sadesa was some of the cleanest and finest leather I have tooled. Not all foreign leather is cheap urine smelling crap contrary to keyboard advice. Sadesa did not get as boardy after casing and tooling like some leathers do. The word was that it had more treatments. 

  Casing is an art, but not rocket science. There are wipe and go/rewet as needed people, drown it and air it for a day people, and a lot of wet it/bag it, and set aside folks.   Some good toolers wipe on something like saddle soap or baby shampoo and slick before tooling. My casing mix is milky to start with. Water- Lexol - baby shampoo - Listerine. Herman Oak and some others that tended to be "drier" I used more Lexol in the mix. This mix gave me more working time, better burnish, better molding, and more even oiling and dying afterwards. Everyone else's mileage will vary. If plain old water works - great. The bottom line is stay with a consistent leather tannage and learn what works with that leather. Then you aren't trying to figure out the moisture amount and time for even penetration on every new piece of leather you get.

Thank you, Bruce. I appreciate your input regarding the milky color.
Most recently, it happened to be 2-3oz and 5-6oz econo veg tan from Tandy, probably Argentinian in origin, if I had to guess. (Before the peanut gallery chimes in dishing on their quality, it’s what I have available, and more importantly, it’s what I can afford…)
As far as casing goes, I don’t believe there’s any problem with my process involved, only my execution. And I’m aware of it. Skill comes with practice, and im still learning the craft. 
These pieces I didn’t bother to clean first, and I only used a spray bottle of tap water, so it couldn’t have come from me. I had considered the possibility of it being something from the tanning process, but I also freely admit that I know nothing of the tanning process. 
I don’t know if I’m “glad” per se, but at least I know I’m not crazy, and someone else has also experienced this. 
— AZR

Edited 5 hours ago by ThisIsMyFirstRodeo
Typo

[chuck123wapati]

Calling the people trying to help you a peanut gallery probably won't help in getting your questions answered. Good luck with your problems.

[kgg]

3 hours ago, ThisIsMyFirstRodeo said:

These pieces I didn’t bother to clean first, and I only used a spray bottle of tap water, so it couldn’t have come from me. I had considered the possibility of it being something from the tanning process, but I also freely admit that I know nothing of the tanning process. 

I have seen something similar while wet forming on some hides not all, cost effective 2/3 and 4/5 oz veg tan leather and not from Tandy. It has appeared as dots or small lines. I figured it was fat appearing but this topic caused me to do an AI search related to the Tandy Econo and probably applies to other suppliers the results were:

i) "The milky substance rising from Tandy's Econo Veg Tan leather while casing is likely natural oils and tannins leaching out of the leather as it deeply hydrates. Casing involves thoroughly wetting the vegetable-tanned leather so the water penetrates evenly through the fibers, which can draw out waxes, fats, and residual tanning materials causing a cloudy or milky appearance on the surface. This is more common in economy grades like Econo Veg Tan because they may have more natural variations and less refined finishing compared to higher-grade leathers."

ii) The regions most commonly associated with these Econo vegetable-tanned hides are South America—especially Brazil and surrounding countries—and in some cases Asia, depending on availability and market supply. These regions are major global suppliers of cattle hides used in mass-market leather production, which matches Tandy's focus on affordable, large-batch material for their Econo line.

3 hours ago, ThisIsMyFirstRodeo said:

(Before the peanut gallery chimes in dishing on their quality, it’s what I have available, and more importantly, it’s what I can afford…)

@chuck123wapati I agree Not helpful. Could have been worded a little differently.

kgg