Leather Weight for Lined Holsters.

[dikman]

All my holsters were made glued flat and then folded, it's inevitable that wrinkling will occur although sometimes it's possible to minimise them. The last holster I made was a SlimJim style and I wanted to carve it so used thicker leather for the outside but this time I tried pre-curving it while glueing to the inner (as Dwight suggested). It did make a neater finish although it was a bit more messing around getting it right.

[Latigo Smith]

 

2 hours ago, Dwight said:

Yes . . . I totally pre bend my holsters that are lined.  AND . . . you  isolated the big reason . . . wrinkles.  If you glue them flat . . . you have a 999 out of 1000 chance that the inside will wrinkle like the 98 yr old witch living down the road.  

I moisten and wet mold the inside piece . . . as it touches the weapon . . . so it needs it's positioning settled up front and wet molding it does that trick.  I then let it dry . . . completely . . . At the same time . . . I will also wet mold the outer layer so that the sight track portion knows it is not laying flat the rest of it's life.  It's only a so-so molding . . . just enough to set the curve for the final bonding.

I do the same for the back flap of the holster . . . bending the inside piece before bonding with the outer piece.  It makes for a much better curve for the flap.

Concerning the weight . . . generally speaking the thicker the leather . . . the stiffer the final product.  But that can also be achieved by cheating.  Putting the two pieces together . . . and either slipping it thru the Mexican loops or adding the front buckle loop . . . you then wet the whole thing . . . and hang it in a 140 degree farenhite "hot box" . . .  take it out after a couple hours . . . if it was made out of 5/6 or 7/8 . . . the holster itself is a weapon . . . you could knock someone out . . . banging them on the head with that holster.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

Alrighty, it sounds like pre-bending is the way to go. Do you find that simply applying pressure with your hands when cementing the layers results in a strong enough bond? This was the only reason I had planned on gluing flat, that I have more confidence in the hold of the contact cement when it's had a little time with some weight applied to it while curing. 

 

You use the gun to wet mold the individual layers to the correct curve radius before glue up? That sounds like an excellent way of doing it. Do you leave the gun in the leather while it's drying like when doing final molding or do you just mold it to the proper curve, take the gun out and let it dry? 

Edited yesterday at 07:59 AM by Latigo Smith

[Yellowhousejake]

I completely agree about pre-bending the leather when lining, though I have never done it myself. I say that because I have now torn down two original holsters to duplicate them and I am preparing to do a third, and forth, and so on. I discovered that you cannot break down an original holster, flatten it, and trace a pattern. The pattern will be too small. It took me three tries to learn this lesson. On close examination I found that when flattening the original leather you will see wrinkles forming on the outside of the bend. What you end up with is a traced pattern that fits the "inside" of the holster, not the outside. I built three copies of my first remake of Federal Man before I caught on to what was happening. The thicker the leather the greater the difference.

I now break down the holster, flatten it to get a tracing, and then add 2X the thickness of the leather to the outside dimension, as a starting point.  Were I to line a holster, I would follow Dwight's advice.

I also notice that many commercial lined holsters use a very soft suede leather for the lining which would add almost nothing to the strength as suede is a split, and without the hair side, is relatively weak.

DAve

[Yellowhousejake]

I forgot to add, when making a flat back holster and gluing up the inside and outside. I apply all my glue to both pieces and when I mate the pieces and use wax paper to keep them separated so I am only mating specific areas at a time. I think that would work well when adding a lining.

Apply all the glue where needed, add wax paper to the body on each side, press the sight tunnel (bend), and when ready to move, start slipping the wax paper out as you press the leather together. Does that make sense?

DAve

[wizard of tragacanth]

More thoughts...

Re: mineral content of water for wet forming. Distilled water has zero minerals. Tap water varies greatly from source to source. Las Vegas has fairly hard water, 291 ppm as reported by the Water District. Over 300ppm is classified as "very hard". It's well known that we have high Calcium. I think it would be important to know the mineral profile or at least the Hardness of the water used if planning to do comparison tests. 

Re: leather weight & detail molding. As Thadrick mentioned, a thicker outside layer makes total sense, if carving is planned, If no carving is planned then detail molding would set the priority. Here, I think two layers of equal thickness are called for because the the thicker the leather the more resistant to details. 

The simple fact that two layers are being used and being fixed with contact cement, contributes greatly to stiffness. 

As Dwight mentioned - a hot box. I totally agree. Force drying a wet mold with heat and fan, really firms up a build.

In the end, every step in our process adds to firming things up: wet molding & force drying, contact cement, dying, sewing, edge treatment and top coat, all help toward this objective. Don't use NFO or any leather conditioner, oil, cream, etc.

I tend to believe that waiting overnight between each of these steps, also helps, but I may be completely wrong.  

Nick

 

 

Edited 22 hours ago by wizard of tragacanth

[Stetson912]

@Dwight that is the advantage to your method, no wrinkles. Ill have to try this one out on the one im working on. Usually it isnt much of an issue with pancake style, but foldover or ones with folded belt loops it is. 

[Thadrick]

I've seen a video of a builder tooling and carving then gluing the liner on (flat). Then he went about by slightly bending it wet and letting it hang balanced over a 1.5" dowel over night to dry. Hanging over the dowel allowed the leather to bend slowly while drying. It wasn't completely bent when dry but was close enough that it reduced wrinkles when he bent it the rest of the way. I haven't tried it but it makes sense that it would work?

My experience with a thinner liner seems to reduces wrinkling,  just don't rush the bending process and be sure it's laminated very well (extra glue is good).

[KillDevilBill]

I'm gonna go with Dwight on this one. Very similar to how I line my holsters, and as a bonus I may have just learned something.

Holster or not, just even a test with some scraps on the bench, I can't even imagine a single layer being stronger or more durable than 2 or more pieces making up the same thickness. Multiple pieces have the grain going in multiple directions, then the glue adding a bond. Just my $.02 and some good reading in this thread. Thank you!

[Dwight]

Actually I should add a couple of "tips" to help with holsters . . . especially western / cowboy types.

1:  Once the contact cement is applied . . . I like doing the liner first . . . allow the whole shebang to "almost" dry to a DRY state.  The piece that makes the outside of holster and the inside of the  belt flap is my dryness tester.  I let all of it dry until this piece is still just a tad bit still sticky.  It won't glob off on your finger . . . but you can still feel a tiny little bit of sticky there.  That will allow you to take it apart if something didn't quite line up right.  AND . . . yes . . . that's the voice of experience talking.

2:  Go to a hardware store . . . buy a hammer handle for a typical old style 16 oz carpenter's hammer.  Cut the end off of it where it would go thru the hammer head . . . sand it real smooth . . . and put some poly finish on it.  You will use this tool once the two pieces are put together . . . force it down thru the holster . . . keeping the stitch edges together.  It opens that sight track very well and will give you room for the ejection handle as well.

Latigo Smith wrote:  "Alrighty, it sounds like pre-bending is the way to go. Do you find that simply applying pressure with your hands when cementing the layers results in a strong enough bond? This was the only reason I had planned on gluing flat, that I have more confidence in the hold of the contact cement when it's had a little time with some weight applied to it while curing. 

You use the gun to wet mold the individual layers to the correct curve radius before glue up? That sounds like an excellent way of doing it. Do you leave the gun in the leather while it's drying like when doing final molding or do you just mold it to the proper curve, take the gun out and let it dry? "

Yes . . . hand pressure is usually enough . . . have never had a problem with it.  And actually . . . once it is sewn  . . .  it ain't gonna go no where.

I only use the gun for wet molding the interior liner . . . everything else is molded over top the liner piece.  The gun is in a plastic bag while doing that bit of molding . . . and once I have that mold (about 3 minutes) the gun is not needed in the rest of the process.

Have fun . . . may God bless,

Dwight

Edited 2 hours ago by Dwight

[Stetson912]

As @KillDevilBill was saying , and how I understand it. The laminated leather has 2 layers of full grain which is the strongest part of the leather. And they would be in different directions adding strength similar to how a weave or braid does.maybe better would be something like plywood. The layers are laid in opposing directions allowing for a strong end material. And the contact cement itself is strong in its own right and probably adds a bit to the overall strength of the laminated leather.