Vinegaroon tutorial

[drphil]

Im brewing my roon as I.. type . One question for long time users who use it for knife sheaths (hope Chuck reads it ). Is there any way that vinegaroon might damage the steel? Should I take any additional precautions, (

eg. mentioned soda) or finnish it differently ?

Mat

Hey Mat,

I don't have any experience with knife sheaths. I am not sure if it would damage your steel. I have used a few snaps and other metal pieces in conjunction with 'rooned leather. I have found that snaps will rust and sometimes discolor after having been on the 'rooned leather after a few days. I would think that if you 'rooned it, applied the baking soda wash, let dray for a day or so, oil it, let it dry for a day or so that you would be good to go. When I saw the discoloration it was after doing all the steps in one day. Now the real question is, what would happen if the leather gets wet later and the knife is still in there? Would any acid still be there to leach out and destroy the knife? It is doubtful that the baking soda would neutralize ALL the acid. I suppose I would use a liner of some sort just as a precaution in those cases. Just a few thoughts. . .

[lonestar tactical]

First of all thanks to everyone for putting this together. First time brewer here....

I went to Wally world this afternoon and picked up a pack of 0000 Steel Wool from the hardware section - the kitchen section had the stuff with soap.

Picked up a gallon of distilled vinegar

Put in a couple of steel wool pads in mason jars - 2 per jar - and filled with vinegar

Put the lids back on with a hole punched to allow for venting of gas

Set outside covered to prevent rain or critters from messing with it. My garage stores my car and my HD - cant have my car smelling like vinegar... well I could but I would be driving alone lol

Now the waiting game begins.....

Side note - cost was 2.00 for a gallon of vinegar and 2.48 for a large pack of steel wook - so two mason jars worth of blackening agent (VG) for 4.48????? (I have enough steel wool and vinegar to make another 2 to 3 jars) Compared to Fiebing USMC Black at 24.99 a quart retail or 15.00 wholesale???? What a cost saver and talk about being able to control quality.

Thanks again to all.

Be safe,

Doc

[MADMAX22]

As far as it ruining steel knives and such, I think the trick is to go thru all the process first then make sure it is fully dry before you do anything with it. I have a roon sheath for my multi tool. This also has one of the tandy black belt clips on it. The gerber mutli tool has been stored in this thing for the last few years with occasional use and there is no rust or anything else of that matter. The belt clip looks fine as well.

[Bard Skye]

Hey Mat,

I don't have any experience with knife sheaths. I am not sure if it would damage your steel. I have used a few snaps and other metal pieces in conjunction with 'rooned leather. I have found that snaps will rust and sometimes discolor after having been on the 'rooned leather after a few days. I would think that if you 'rooned it, applied the baking soda wash, let dray for a day or so, oil it, let it dry for a day or so that you would be good to go. When I saw the discoloration it was after doing all the steps in one day. Now the real question is, what would happen if the leather gets wet later and the knife is still in there? Would any acid still be there to leach out and destroy the knife? It is doubtful that the baking soda would neutralize ALL the acid. I suppose I would use a liner of some sort just as a precaution in those cases. Just a few thoughts. . .

I haven't tried any vinegargoon myself as yet. I just heard about it and have been chasing down all of the references to it I can find on this site.

In other posts, it's been said that you don't want to over neutralize the leather. Leather is *supposed* to have an acidic pH, and over neutralizing will cause it to crack and deteriorate after a relatively short time.

I haven't made very many sheaths yet, but I have a good friend who is a Master Bladesmith. (I'm trying to get my sheaths good enough to go with *his* blades!) He's always told me that a sheath is for *carrying* a blade, NOT storing it. Given the slightest provocation, leather will pick up moisture and trap it inside with the knife, causing rusting, pitting, and discoloration. This is especially true with carbon steel blades.

I would think that if the leather is properly dried and oiled, the vinegaroon would not cause any real problems.

Just my 2 cents worth... That and another buck will get ya a cup of coffee.

Skye

[Sovran81]

Has anyone used this process for whips? The strands are little more than top grain and the strength of the leather is critical. I like the idea of a cheap deep black but any weakness developed either immediately or over time would not be good.

[TomG]

Hi all,

I've read pretty much all of the posts on making and using the Vig and seems that there are a number of ways and methods to use this stuff.

2 weeks ago, I took some old 00 steel wool pads I've had for years and put in a gallon jug. Poured about 2 qts of new vinegar on top and let it sit, shaking it up every few days.

Then, using paper coffee filter, I filtered the almost black liquid to get rid of the fine metal left over. I was left with a very dark liquid.

After letting it sit a couple of days it had not cleared so I decided to try it anyway. I dipped a strip of veg-tan into it and within seconds, I had a very black strap. I let it soak for about 10 miutes to make sure it went all of the way though,

I took it out and dipped it into a solution of 4 tablespoons of baking soda in about a quart and a half of water (half full 2 liter soda bottle). I didn't see any bubbles. After about 10 minutes, I took it out and washed it thoroughly.

It smelled like dead fish. I let it dry overnight and it still smelled bad. I put it back in the soda and got some bubbles. Let it sit for about an hour and then washed it again. Now is smells like wet leather.

My Vig still smelled a little like vinegar. So I added another steel wool pad. Within an hour, the almost black solution was clear and has a mass of steel wool floating near the top. I'll let it sit and see how it does over the next few days.

So - Long story and here are the questions:

1) Should the Vig always smell like vinegar and steel?

2) How long should the soda dip be done?

3) Should there be a smell after dipping?

Thanks

Tom

Edited November 6, 2011 by TomG

[Ken Cook]

I see this thread is from November, but does anyone have an answer to the last questions, Tom's questions?

1) Should the Vig always smell like vinegar and steel?

2) How long should the soda dip be done?

3) Should there be a smell after dipping?

Thanks, Ken

[robs456]

IIRC:

1) Should the Vig always smell like vinegar and steel?

The smell will be minimized by saturating the vinegar with iron, always use more than you think you need (unless experienced).

2) How long should the soda dip be done?

Very quickly or the leather will be 'burned'.

3) Should there be a smell after dipping?

It always is when I 'roon projects, but then I tend to fail no.1 above...

The smell wears of with time though.

[LederRudi]

the whole process is after all to have the iron dissolved by the acetic acid in the vinegar to produce ferric acetate - which by the way can be purchased in crystal form from science supply companys, if you don't want to fuss with making the mixture...

Hi Chuck, I'm inclined to take this shortcut. Would I still have to rinse the leather in bicarbonate?

Best regards,

Rudi

P.S: I enjoyed your video on making holsters a lot!

[ChuckBurrows]

Rudi - yes I would and you can also use ferric nitrate crystals if you cannot find ferric acetate - with the ferric nitrate (which FWIW is historically documented at least as far back as the 18th Century) I start out at a mix of 10 parts distilled water and 1 part crystals - if not strong enough add some more crystals, a bit at a time, until you get a good mix.