What am I doing wrong?

[JRB]

I can't figure out what is causing the blotchy dye. It was really bad w/Fiebings (pictured). I am trying Angelus and it is better but still a little blotchy.

I'm using Wickett & Craig leather. After welt molding I wipe it down w/alcohol then apply dye w/a wool dauber. I apply a light coat of neats foot oil and after it soaks through (next day) I apply finish coat.

My first guess would be either something w/preparing the leather before dye and/or the neats foot oil.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Tkleather1]

the only thing I could even try to suggest is make sure all the alcohol is dry but I dont know.

What are you using to apply the dye?

Edited March 14, 2009 by Tkleather1

[kseidel]

Are you using the regular spirit dye or the professional oil dye? The Pro Oil dye covers much better over large smooth surfaces.The biggest issue is the areas that are burnished more on the surface...the light spots. Also it looks like there are some stains left from your hands when making. The best way to prep leather for dye or oil after handling is to wash with oxalic acid. It is quick and easy and opens the pores making the leather receptive to whatever comes next. Also for larger smooth surfaces, a woolskin pad works much better than a dauber. It applies finishes much smoother without the streaking that you get with a dauber.

If you strip the finish you should be able to re-dye. Try to get more saturation.

Keith

[Tina]

I'm only using the Angelus dyes and so far the only time it comes out blotchy is when the hide is not prepered (Angelus have a deglazer for this). The black has been really nice to me so far, never uneven...Can it have something to do with the hide?

I have also started to use the dye when it is still wet/damp, especially when the dye is deluted (trying to get more even resaults without using air guns) and so far this works out fine for me.

Hope this helps but I guess that making your own little experiments would not hurt (small scrap pieces of course *S*)

[Jordan]

I have not figured it out either. I do know that even with the cleanest hands there is still enough oil to cause the blotchys, no matter how clean the leather is. Also I think it is inherent in a natural product to have inconsistencies. You could convince yourself that it adds to the character of the piece but of course it still drives me up a wall. Sorry not much help.

[Tkleather1]

Are you using the regular spirit dye or the professional oil dye? The Pro Oil dye covers much better over large smooth surfaces.The biggest issue is the areas that are burnished more on the surface...the light spots. Also it looks like there are some stains left from your hands when making. The best way to prep leather for dye or oil after handling is to wash with oxalic acid. It is quick and easy and opens the pores making the leather receptive to whatever comes next. Also for larger smooth surfaces, a woolskin pad works much better than a dauber. It applies finishes much smoother without the streaking that you get with a dauber.

If you strip the finish you should be able to re-dye. Try to get more saturation.

Keith

Where would one get this acid???

[whinewine]

Where would one get this acid???

Tandy used to carry it years ago & discontinued. Hardware stores & Home Depot & Lowes carry 'wood bleach'. It's oxalic acid (but read the label just to be sure). It's pretty inexpensive.

JRB:

If the oxalic acid doesn't work (which it possibly won't- since the dye is already on it), use fiebings deglazer (use outside- pretty nasty smelling stuff) to strip & re-do. Deglazer is definitely a last resort.

russ

[JRB]

Tandy used to carry it years ago & discontinued. Hardware stores & Home Depot & Lowes carry 'wood bleach'. It's oxalic acid (but read the label just to be sure). It's pretty inexpensive.

JRB:

If the oxalic acid doesn't work (which it possibly won't- since the dye is already on it), use fiebings deglazer (use outside- pretty nasty smelling stuff) to strip & re-do. Deglazer is definitely a last resort.

russ

So far i've used spirit dyes. The Angelus was "Jet Black". I do have some of the Pro Black.

Would the deglazer & oxalic acid work equally as well to prep before dye?

Thanks guys!

[Ian]

Periodically your question comes up in regards to black dye. I can honestly say that I have never had a problem with uneven black, and I have made hundreds of black items (colors are a different story), and I just give the leather a wipe down with alcohol and I use Fiebings oil dye. One thing is not to skimp on the dye - really slather it on and do a second coat if you want.

[whinewine]

Periodically your question comes up in regards to black dye. I can honestly say that I have never had a problem with uneven black, and I have made hundreds of black items (colors are a different story), and I just give the leather a wipe down with alcohol and I use Fiebings oil dye. One thing is not to skimp on the dye - really slather it on and do a second coat if you want.

Ian:

I do know that if dye is applied with a dauber, it can go on very unevenly, due (probably) to the abundance of crappy leather available out there. I've found that parts of the hide absorb dye at an uneven rate (some parts take it well, some take it not well at all). If given a choice, I'll spray my dye on rather than use the dauber or sheepwool method. I'm sure others will disagree, but for me, spraying works the best.

JRB:

deglazer is essentially a 'last resort' to strip a finish off like few other things can. I would only use it as a prep if you knew there was a definite foreign substance (like oil or finish or some such) spilled on it beforehand.

Oxalic acid is essentially a bleach: it can prep & it can lighten somewhat, but few people use it (or really need to use it) on a regular basis. The alcohol wipe is probably sufficient. I rarely use any of the above- I use water: if it won't take water in a certain area, then I know I have an absorption problem & I would go to one or more of the above treatments.

russ

[kseidel]

Where would one get this acid???

You can get oxalic acid at a pharmacy. It is a powdered crystalline substance that you mix with water. I use it on everything after construction is finished and before oiling. I seldom use deglazer. It is just isopropyl alcohol and does not clean all that well. It is the base for the dye and is what you would use to cut the color. Oxalic acid will do nothing for you after oiling and finishing, it is only effective on raw leather. It can affect the final color also. (not black) If you want to try to re-finish and salvage this holster, just strip the finish and re-dye. Deglazer will not strip the finish adequately. Acetone will. There are some other eco friendly cleaners that strip finishes fairly well, and aren't as harsh on the leather or you. You will not remove the oil, but that is not necessary to re-dye. Get a good saturation as Ian said. On the original, you did not get saturation where the leather was burnished, and the excess wiped away before soaking in. Once re-dyed you should be able to refinish and all should be normal. I would oil again as the acetone will lift some.

Angeles Jet Black will give a little better coverage than Fiebings spirit dye. The pro oil dye is about the same. Both take longer to penetrate, and leave a deep rich color.

Good Luck!

Keith

[badger]

I agree with Ian.

I've used the Fiebings oil dye and never had a problem with the black. My only beef with it is that it tends to have a slightly blue/purple sheen in certain lighting conditions. But, I've never had a problem with uneven coverage.

I have seen the streaking you have on the holster with other colours, though. It's usually because the user hasn't got enough dye on the job fast enough.

I find with the pro oil dye you need to get a good amount on quick and then start to rub it around with your dauber or whatever.

I would have another go at the holster. If it hasn't been surface coated with anything else, deglaze with plenty of 99% alcohol (hate the fiebings deglazer. Ethyl acetate isn't a nice smell) and go on with another coat or two of the black. Something that size I would take a large dauber and do two coats each side with the dauber saturated, actually almost dripping with dye.

Hope this helps,

Karl

Edited March 15, 2009 by badger

[Go2Tex]

I've had the exact problem with holsters and I'm fairly certain that it is caused by the molding process. Pressing down on moist leather compresses the fibers, (duh) and consequently the dye is not absorbed as well. That's about it and short of spraying it on the surface and hoping it doesn't just wipe or rub off, you're gonna have a hard time preventing it.

That is probably why saddle seats are such a problem with uneven dying. It gets a lot of rubbing during the fitting process. Same with burnished edges. Plus, I've noticed that if you rub the leather after dying, it will tend to seal the leather also and prevent or slow the penetration of more dye.

Just keep all this in mind and next time, buy drum dyed leather!

[JRB]

I've had the exact problem with holsters and I'm fairly certain that it is caused by the molding process. Pressing down on moist leather compresses the fibers, (duh) and consequently the dye is not absorbed as well. That's about it and short of spraying it on the surface and hoping it doesn't just wipe or rub off, you're gonna have a hard time preventing it.

That is probably why saddle seats are such a problem with uneven dying. It gets a lot of rubbing during the fitting process. Same with burnished edges. Plus, I've noticed that if you rub the leather after dying, it will tend to seal the leather also and prevent or slow the penetration of more dye.

Just keep all this in mind and next time, buy drum dyed leather!

Your theory makes sense. Can you ever apply too much dye/too many coats?

I considered the drum dyed leather when I ordered but I don't produce enough volume to buy leather for various colors. I my try dipping the dye next time.

[Hedy]

If it hasn't been surface coated with anything else, deglaze with plenty of 99% alcohol (hate the fiebings deglazer. Ethyl acetate isn't a nice smell)

I had a bad experience with ethyl acetate a few weeks ago. Thought the garage was well enough ventilated, but evidently I got it in my system over the course of the afternoon. Had a couple glasses of wine with dinner -- which has, you guessed it, ethyl acetate in it -- and the whites of my eyes tinged red and I was quite ill for a few hours. I'll be sticking with alcohol from now on OR working outside if I have to deglaze.

[TwinOaks]

Another possibility I haven't seen mentioned- When you molded the holster, did you by chance use a heat gun to set the leather? I've done this trying to 'speed things up' and ended up scorching the leather on the corners. The result was nearly identical to yours at the trigger guard. If this happened (could also happen in an oven if the temp is too high) you can either decide it's okay for personal use, or rebuild it. There's no fixing scorches. IIRC, not even vinegaroon turned the scorches black.

[iwannabeacowboy]

You didn't mention how many coats of dye you used. When doing black I usually do at least 2 good coats. then buff the hell out of it to help with color rub off with use. With some black dye jobs I find dying another color(dr brown/dr blue) first will give a blacker black.

cleaning before dying is something i always do.

charlie

[MADMAX22]

I think Go2Tex hit the nail on the head.

Take some of the exact same leather and without doing anything to it dye it and see if it comes out really blotchy. If it comes out looking good then you know it is somewhere in the handling process between when you start and dye. When you are doing your wetmolding depending on how dry/wet the leather is you can basically burnish the leather.

If you find that the leather dyes really nicely before you are boning it try dying the leather before you bone it. There are several holster makers that do this. Its worth a shot to see how it comes out.

[particle]

I agree with the burnished comments. It looks like the leather was burnished during the forming process. I usually work my holsters when they are very wet - too wet to hold detail lines. This allows the leather to stretch much more easily, without burnishing the surface so quickly. If you don't want to dye the individual pieces prior to assembly, next time try forming the holster while the leather is fresh out of the pan of water (I usually dunk mine 10-15 seconds to allow the water to penetrate the double-thickness pieces). Once the holster has lost some of its moisture, you can come back and add the detail to your lines.

[JLSleather]

Where would one get this acid???

http://stleather.com/2008-P37.html

Note that they haven't updated the prices on the web site ... the 2010 catalog lists this at $4.95/package. Mix the crystals with warm water. Just get one ... this is A LOT of stuff. Also, I think many make a mistake using this on EVERY project. Like that guy at the fishin' hole, once caught a nice walleye using a green jig - so now he wants to use a green jig all the time.

Any time you re-wet leather, you risk losing some carving/forming definition. Use it sparingly, and only when needed. A pint of the stuff should last - oh - roughly forever. Someone will no doubt dispute this line of thought, but I can show you a dozen (easily) recent photos of leather that was extensively painted WITHOUT acid cleaning that shows no ill results.