first time gun buyer

[wildrose]

PLEASE no politics here!!!

My mom is looking to purchase a handgun for protection. She lives in a rural area, off the main road, and wants something easy to use, that will be kept at home. Two of her brothers have been giving her some advice, and even target practice, but I know there are some really knowledgeable people here that can help me pass some info on to her.

Dad occassionally goes on short-term mission trips, and Mom would feel more secure if she had something close by if needed. She's not afraid to learn, and not afraid to use it, and plans on taking some concealed weapon classes shortly. Though she's in her 60's, she's very athletic (has run the NYC Marathon, and runs every day still) and does most of the work on their horse farm.

For point of reference, we live in Virginia.

[Shorts]

Well, I think what feels good in her hand and what she leans to is what she should take home. It can be a revolver, a semiauto or probably the greatest home defense gun, a good shotgun. Since you said that she is physically active, more than likely she'll be able to handle a variety of firearms/calibers.

As far as caliber, I would keep it above .38spl. A .38spl, 9mm, .40 or .45acp. I can't negate a .380acp but right now ammo is exceptionally expensive and very difficult to find. For a shotgun, a good standard 12ga can be had for a great price. It's easy to use and it is certainly effective with the proper load.

Its great to hear that she is going to take a class. That will be a great intro. Tell her to ask her instructor as many questions as she wants and hopefully she can get her hands on a variety of firearms while at class to get a feel for options. The next thing to do is go to the range and rent a few guns, try them out. This will help get a real feel for how they operate and shoot. For her bros giving her lessons, while it may be easy access, it might not be the easiest way to get info. Very often when people try to learn things from family or spouses it is way too easy to take advice incorrectly or the teacher is way too critical. Basically, it keeps the peace to learn with an instructor haha

VA is a great state for firearm ownership. Good on your mom for wanting to be able to take care of herself if she needs to If she interested in some good online firearms forums, I can suggest a few that I'm on and have been a member of for a long while.

Good luck on the search. If there's anything I can help with, ask away!

Edited March 16, 2009 by Shorts

[DCKNIVES]

My wife and I both carry Glock 19's. They are virtually indestructable and very reliable,but I would recommend a revolver, something like a S&W 38.Less to learn and very reliable.Good stopping power as well, though not as many shots as a semi-auto.Dave

[Kevinjohnson]

Glock model 23 .40 caliber? Maybe a short barrel shot gun for home defense. That's the same advice a respected customer gave me.

[freak]

As these times have it, honestly take her to the gun shop and let her fell and hold as many as she wants. Get something that feels good and she understands how to work that gun in the dark, that's also in her price range. Then i'de go check your price for ammo , it's just gettting higher and higher and harder to find. No need to buy a gun you can't afford ammo for or can't find.

My mom's in the looking stages as well. I'm pretty sure she'll be getting something in a 9mm. It just all depends on what i stated above. Plus it's a good round for her, it has stopping power and is not over powering for her to handle.

[ArtS]

There is a lot of personal preference with a gun selection.

The first one my mother in law got was a semi auto and she couldn't pull the slide back. I told my father in law to return it and get her a revolver. Sounds like your mother is stronger though.

I bought my wife a S&W Airweight .39 special revolver with hidden hammer. She likes it. I also added a laser to it (picture included). It's very light weight.

It only has 5 shots so you may want to get her a semi auto that holds more.

Art

[JohnnyDingus]

First off I recomend that your Mom go to a gun shop range combination if you can find one. One that lets you rent their guns so you can get a feel for the different types. If that is not possible do you have some friends and neighbors that would be willing to go with you so your mom could try out a few different types. If she hasn't shot before to get her comfortable with just shooting I recomend someone bring a .22cal pistol so she can get used to hitting the target and comfortable with sight alignment. Then and only then do I recomend she gradually increase in caliber and type of pistol to find out what she prefers. Just holding the gun does no good in finding out what she will be comfortable with shooting. She needs to practice practice practice. You might do all of this over a period of a couple of weeks. Deciding in one day what you like is applicable to new cars, puppies and food. But deciding on something that you are going to depend on to save your life if needed needs careful consideration.

Just a old Marine's .02

Johnny Dingus

edit: ps. a 357 will shoot 38spl. So in my opinion for a lady a 38, 357, or 9mm should be about minimum for protection, good rounds with plenty of stoping power.

Edited March 16, 2009 by JohnnyDingus

[Jordan]

My mom has a shotgun with deer slugs that she keeps by the bed and a walther semiauto pistol made famous by bond james bond. lol. I have a bersa .380 small, inexpensive and very reliable. She definitely go to a range/shop and shoot a few different guns until she finds one that she is comfortable with.

[superchute]

look a the judge 45 410 and use the 410 shells in it nice pattern and would work great

Russ

[Tkleather1]

I jsut bought the wife a Taurus 357 Model 66 I think. I like the 357 because you can shoot 3 loads through it .38 spl, .38 spl +p, and 357. The taurus is a lower end gun but very nice and the prices are aheck of alot lower than a smith or Glock or ruger, well you get my point.

[rhall]

I would have her look at a Ruger sp101 in .357 mag. not for the mag. but she can train with a wide variety of Ammo....38 wadcutter on up to .38 +P and if she fells comfortable into many different self defense Magnums.You can still buy any of those calibers just about anywhere even Walmart!If I could only have one I think I would keep my SS Sp101!

[Randy Cornelius]

Ask 10 people and you will get 10 different answers. The gun she should buy is the one she is comfortable with. If she has week hands a revolver may not be for her. If she cannot pull the double action trigger then a wheel gun is not for her. If it is for home defense then I would not worry about accurate shots at great distances, must shots would be under 5 yards so any of the smaller cal. would be fine. A hit with a .22 is far better than a miss with a 5 inch shell, (I think I seen that on someones signature here, sorry I stole it) but it's true. A .22 is very effective at close range but a .45 will never be smaller than a 45. So make sure whatever she buys she practices with it and becomes comfortable with it...

Randy

[wildrose]

She did mention she had trouble loading the clip on one of her brother's automatics (don't know what it was), so it had been suggested that she get a revolver instead of an automatic.

Hoping I'm getting my terms right...LOL!

Anyhow, my husband also suggested she try a 38. I agree that the best thing for her are classes and trying out a variety before buying.

Thanks! Keep the tips coming if there is anything else to add!

[Tkleather1]

I also believe she should get what is comfortable in her hand and some thing she feels comfortable shooting I was merely sharing the choice of my wife as she is a very small handed woman and she has no trouble with the taurus.

[Shorts]

She did mention she had trouble loading the clip on one of her brother's automatics (don't know what it was), so it had been suggested that she get a revolver instead of an automatic.

Hoping I'm getting my terms right...LOL!

Anyhow, my husband also suggested she try a 38. I agree that the best thing for her are classes and trying out a variety before buying.

Thanks! Keep the tips coming if there is anything else to add!

At this point, I wouldn't discount all semi autos due to loading and cycling the slide (very common for new shooters). These are things that can be overcome by technique and practice and in general becoming more familiar with the mechanics.

A very very helpful website that I suggest that all ladies take a look at is http://www.corneredcat.com/ It's a firearms site geared towards the girls and issues that are women specific. Technique is emphasized and it works. Kathy Jackson is an excellent resource and a great lady. I've been on forums with her for about 5yrs now.

I have carried in the past a .38spl revolver, Beretta 86 .380, Colt Officers .45acp, Commander 9mm and currently a Commander .45acp. I'm 5'3" 110lbs and I do not have the use of my left arm/hand. My hands are a large small- small medium. I am athletic (I'm a runner like your mom).

Here's my impressions about each:

.38spl - 'snubbie' (2" barrel revolver, Taurus 85 model, stainless brushed finished)

Pros: Very easy to carry, conceal and operate. Had great sights, shot reliably. Ammo was readily available

Cons: Long, heavy double action trigger pull (remember, I'm one-handed), this pistol/me was very inaccurate. Full load 158grain ammo is very uncomfortable to shoot due to the grip pounding on my palm. 5 shot capacity, reloads (for me) are not fast.

Based on this experience I will not carry a 2" snubby .38spl again. I'm not interested.

Beretta Cheetah 86 .380

Pros: Easy to operate and shoot. Accurate. Capacity is 8 +1. Tip up barrel. Fit my hand like a glove. Good 3dot sights.

Con: Ammo in this caliber is expensive. Gun is bulky/heavy for the caliber.

Colt Officers .45acp

Pros: Compact & concealable, .45acp, 3dot sights, fit my hand, reliable

Cons: The recoil can be a bit much due to slide length and 230gr bullets. Maybe a con, 6+1 capacity.

Very manageable gun that just takes a little time to get use to shooting.

Colt Commander 9mm

Pros: Cheap ammo, accurate, reliable; good capacity 8+1 IIRC

Con: For my body size/shape the grip is difficult to conceal; ammo scarce due to political factors

Colt Commander .45acp

Pros: Most accurate gun I've ever owned. Very reliable, good sights. 7+1 or 8+1 capacity depending on the magazines

Cons: Grip is difficult to conceal; gun gets heavy at the end of the day. Ammo cost is now up there and scarce due to political factors

By far the best firearm I've shot/owned/carried

The above doesn't address the other handguns we own and have the pleasure of shooting, merely the list of guns I've carried. Which means I spend an intimate amount of time cleaning, shooting, cleaning, shooting, carrying, handling, upgrading, shooting cleaning etc.

Definitely get a good .22rl pistol. It is the best tool for learning technique and is a superfun plinking gun. A work horse I can recommend from experience is a Ruger 22/45. There are a few version of this pistol but all are excellent, reliable 22s that can be purchased new for a very affordable price. I've also hada lot of fun with a .22lr revolver, 4" or 6" barrel. These are just a good time on a Saturday afternoon

Now, I think I am biased towards the semi autos. And I will confess that I am a lady who does not like the trend of recommending revolvers to ladies because they are ladies. I find it somewhat condescending of a perspective. I certainly don't take issue with any of the posts here. I think they are all spot on. What I have seen in the past however on different sites is another story

Edited March 16, 2009 by Shorts

[rawhide1]

Holly

My wife has a .380 Walther PPK. It fits in her purse nice. And fits her hand good. It's a nice little gun although when I shoot it I wind up losing a little skin on my hand from they slide comeing back. So if she has big hands this probaly wouldn't work for her. Just something else to keep in mind.

Mike

[JohnnyDingus]

At this point, I wouldn't discount all semi autos due to loading and cycling the slide (very common for new shooters). These are things that can be overcome by technique and practice and in general becoming more familiar with the mechanics.

A very very helpful website that I suggest that all ladies take a look at is http://www.corneredcat.com/ It's a firearms site geared towards the girls and issues that are women specific. Technique is emphasized and it works. Kathy Jackson is an excellent resource and a great lady. I've been on forums with her for about 5yrs now.

I have carried in the past a .38spl revolver, Beretta 86 .380, Colt Officers .45acp, Commander 9mm and currently a Commander .45acp. I'm 5'3" 110lbs and I do not have the use of my left arm/hand. My hands are a large small- small medium. I am athletic (I'm a runner like your mom).

Here's my impressions about each:

.38spl - 'snubbie' (2" barrel revolver, Taurus 85 model, stainless brushed finished)

Pros: Very easy to carry, conceal and operate. Had great sights, shot reliably. Ammo was readily available

Cons: Long, heavy double action trigger pull (remember, I'm one-handed), this pistol/me was very inaccurate. Full load 158grain ammo is very uncomfortable to shoot due to the grip pounding on my palm. 5 shot capacity, reloads (for me) are not fast.

Based on this experience I will not carry a 2" snubby .38spl again. I'm not interested.

Beretta Cheetah 86 .380

Pros: Easy to operate and shoot. Accurate. Capacity is 8 +1. Tip up barrel. Fit my hand like a glove. Good 3dot sights.

Con: Ammo in this caliber is expensive. Gun is bulky/heavy for the caliber.

Colt Officers .45acp

Pros: Compact & concealable, .45acp, 3dot sights, fit my hand, reliable

Cons: The recoil can be a bit much due to slide length and 230gr bullets. Maybe a con, 6+1 capacity.

Very manageable gun that just takes a little time to get use to shooting.

Colt Commander 9mm

Pros: Cheap ammo, accurate, reliable; good capacity 8+1 IIRC

Con: For my body size/shape the grip is difficult to conceal; ammo scarce due to political factors

Colt Commander .45acp

Pros: Most accurate gun I've ever owned. Very reliable, good sights. 7+1 or 8+1 capacity depending on the magazines

Cons: Grip is difficult to conceal; gun gets heavy at the end of the day. Ammo cost is now up there and scarce due to political factors

By far the best firearm I've shot/owned/carried

The above doesn't address the other handguns we own and have the pleasure of shooting, merely the list of guns I've carried. Which means I spend an intimate amount of time cleaning, shooting, cleaning, shooting, carrying, handling, upgrading, shooting cleaning etc.

Definitely get a good .22rl pistol. It is the best tool for learning technique and is a superfun plinking gun. A work horse I can recommend from experience is a Ruger 22/45. There are a few version of this pistol but all are excellent, reliable 22s that can be purchased new for a very affordable price. I've also hada lot of fun with a .22lr revolver, 4" or 6" barrel. These are just a good time on a Saturday afternoon

Now, I think I am biased towards the semi autos. And I will confess that I am a lady who does not like the trend of recommending revolvers to ladies because they are ladies. I find it somewhat condescending of a perspective. I certainly don't take issue with any of the posts here. I think they are all spot on. What I have seen in the past however on different sites is another story

Great post, especially like the last paragraph. I too am biased for the semi autos. I am just as comfortable with the revolvers but I shoot cowboy action. Don't know too many that push revolvers just for the ladies.

Thanks for the added insight and the link to the other forum/group. If it is alright I will recomend that to other lady shooters too.

Johnny Dingus

[Gilligan]

if it's strictly for in home protection, there's no true need for more than three maybe four rounds, at that point the thieves should be gone or dead.

I have a Beretta bobcat in .22 easy to conceal, has a capacity of 8+1 if i remeber correctly. barrel has break action like a shotgun for loading silently if she doesn't want to keep it loaded.

The Kid

[TwinOaks]

Good reply Shorts, very informative and insightful.

I'm gonna recommend the S&W M&P series, compact or fullsize. From your description, it doesn't sound like hand strength will be an issue and therefor slide manipulation probably won't either. The thing that counts most is the trigger. After all, its very unlikely she'll be loading mags during a robbery/B&E. The M&P, like the Glock and other striker fired weapons, has a consistent trigger pull for every shot. As a new shooter, it will be easier for her to develop good habits with a good trigger. I only mention the M&P because I'm most familiar with it, and I like it's LIFETIME WARRANTY (over Glock's 1 year), interchangeable backstraps on the grip to better fit the pistol in the hand, ambidexterous controls and you don't have to pull the trigger to fieldstrip it.

Is it the only one? Absolutely not. Among the other 'good' mfgrs I know about......Taurus (24/7-OSS), Ruger SR-9, S&W Sigma, Kahr (model?).

My wife carries the M&P compact in .40 cal.

If you're leaning towards a revolver, the Ruger sp101 is a true workhorse capable of handling magnum loads. And it isn't as light as an airweight (S&W), because it's made from stainless steel. Smith and Wesson makes some fine revolvers but they are a little pricey. Besides Taurus, you might also check out Rossi revolvers. They have excellent warranties and 6 shots as opposed to 5. Personal recommendation for a revolver is for .357 magnum. As previously stated, it will handle a variety of loads from soft shooting .38 spcl 'target loads' to full house magnums. She could even throw in couple of shotshells for varmits. If she dislikes the long heavy trigger, it's better to get one with an exposed hammer which can be cocked (or decocked)......single action triggers are usually the most accurate due to less movement of the hand muscles. A gunsmith can smooth and lighten the trigger pull on most revolvers significantly without compromising the function of the pistol. Remember, as it comes from the factory, it doesn't have labor consuming polishing and precision fitting done to it.

Another note about revolvers: Generally, grips can be changed out to the shooters preference. Check out a variety of them.

My personal preference (in defiance of all the advice above) is the old 1911 platform in .45ACP. It fits my hand well, and I'm very comfortable with using the manual (thumb) safety and carrying it in 'condition one'. It's what I learned on, and I'm big enough that concealment of a fullsized 1911 isn't a problem. I also like the fact that it offers one of the best single action triggers ever designed for a pistol, as I practice to make the first shot count not scare.

Once she's found a pistol or revolver she's comfortable with, I can recommend a website to locate a holster maker for it......

Good Luck in your shopping,

M

Edited March 16, 2009 by TwinOaks

[JohnnyDingus]

Just a small point about having trigger work done to a defense gun....don't. If you were to ever use it to defend your life a good lawyer would use that fact to tear you up if it ever came to trial.

Most of the quality guns out there have good enough trigger pulls that you really don't need to modify.

Just my .02

Johnny Dingus

[TwinOaks]

Johnny, please check your PMs

[Bree]

A woman's self defense needs differ from those of an ordinary man. Normally a woman must stop the bad guy before he can get to her because she is at a big disadvantage in hand-to hand combat. Consequently, as far as handguns are concerned, a woman needs to carry the largest caliber that she can handle. If at all possible I recommend .45 ACP. Second would be the .357 Magnum with 125 gr. cartridges. The recoil of the .45 ACP is actually less than that of the .357 Magnum but both are within the range of almost all women with some training and practice. Both have substantial stopping power.

Best for the situation described is a 12 Ga shotgun with either slugs or 00 buckshot. I would add a Knoxx Spec Ops Recoil Reducing stock. The stock will absorb about 75% of the considerable recoil of the 12 Ga. That makes it a doable option for any woman and extremely powerful. A shotgun slug is just about the strongest stopper you will find.

Shotguns must be aimed so practice is necessary. A shotgun with a slug is not unlike a rifle in that respect. Buckshot will expand giving you some leeway but of course the expansion reduces the effectiveness as fewer pellets hit the target and penetrate to vital regions. At ranges found in home defense the expansion won't make much of a difference and buckshot is highly effective.

Bottom line women need BIG self defense power to stop big attackers before the BG can get to them. Go to the range and rent handguns of different calibers and find the biggest caliber that she can fire with reasonable comfort and accuracy. Then find a make/model that suits her taste. For shotguns... make sure you get a 12 Ga that supports the recoil reducing Knoxx Spec Ops stock. Just trust me on this one. The difference is HUGE.

Myself, I have a Springfield Armory XD 45 Compact, a Ruger SP-101 .357 Magnum, and a Keltec P3AT .380 as a backup pocket pistol. For home defense I have a Mossberg 590 Mariner 12 Ga and a Rock River Arms AR-15. For plinking at the range I have a fun gun... the Ruger 10/22.

Oh... don't forget pepper spray. Fox Labs... 4 oz can is perfect. Fox is top rated... what the cops and military use... really strong stuff. She should carry it everywhere she goes. She is much more likely to use pepper spray then a gun. Get the best that is legal and available in your state. Pay extra to get the best. Even the threat of using it will stop most would be attackers. When they look down the bore of the spray nozzle they think twice.

I have used it 4 different times and I believe that it has saved my life.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Bree

[rhall]

Damn Bree I think I have seen another side of you!, You know your way around a Firearm ....I think I am Fallin in Love!LOL

[wildrose]

I've been enjoying the "women's side of things" comments as much as the men's!

[TwinOaks]

Johnny's post got me thinking and I'd like to clarify my comments about trigger work.

I don't mean that the triggerweight on a revolver should be taken to VERY light weights - say the ~2lb and under range. That should be reserved for special purpose pistols used only in competition. The basic trigger job, IMO, smooths things out and removes tool marks, burrs and rough spots. This gives a smoother trigger pull with a clean breaking point and less creep, which is the feeling of trigger movement when there shouldn't be any....usually side to side. The result is a trigger pull that feels lighter and is smooth all the way to the break.

Personally, I don't think it's an issue if it's performed "to spec" by a competent gunsmith, and Johnny and I disagree to an extent there. However, he does raise a valid point about possible litigation issues and we are continueing the discussion 'off board'.

I'll start up another thread in "off topic" for that discussion.