Vegan (sort of) Leather

[2MadJacks]

Noah,

I think it is nice that you try and please your lady. She sounds like a good girl or you wouldn't try so hard, but it also seems as if you are being given and altimatum. I'm sure that all vegans are not just about PETA and such. Sorry you didn't get the warm welcome you should have but your question, while you didn't mean for it to sound offending to meat eaters, it does. You have a valid questions though and we are all here to help.

Maybe finding used leather or scraps as mentioned would be easiest to obtain. I don't believe roadkill is your best bet as it will probably be spoiled by the time you get it, especially in Arizona. Also even though UKRay apologized he may have a valid point in silversmithing. It does seem to be a similar craft.

I know everyone here would love to see your work and progress and remember we like pics. Please don't shy away.

Good luck, James

[Trauma]

Kevinjohnson,

You might do well to 'lurk' here a while longer and learn what this board is really about.

As I see you don't really get it at all, we have all walks of life here, from seasoned bikers wanting to make their own gear, to hobbyists, to professionals wanting to see what everyone else is doing, while sharing a little of what they've learned along their own path.

The one thing I haven't seen so far however, is the sort of sickening response you provided to what I perceive to be an honest approach to a difficult situation.

Sure, he's got a hell of a balancing act on his hands, but personally i applaud him for trying to strike a balance.

And then I see the crap you offer as a response.

You disgust me.

Grow up.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Trauma

[Trauma]

I felt the need to separate my response to Kevinjohnson from my response to Noah.

As i said in my previous post, you have a hell of a juggling act on your hands.

I wouldn't recommend roadkill as a leather source. Even if you manage to find one without tiremarks straight through, the bacteria that starts at the moment of death will be a problem.

If your g.f is ok with shoes, maybe try broaching the subject of reducing waste, assure her that every scrap of leather will be put to good use, and that as little as possible will go to waste.

My fiance had issues with me taking up leatherwork, until we discussed it and I explained that the leather will be produced anyway. It's an established industry. And that if nothing else, i make use of as much of the leather as possible, throwing out as little as i can.

Please ignore the crappy responses, for the most we're a good bunch.

Good luck

Edited March 29, 2009 by Trauma

[LAPat]

The food chain is the tragedy of life. But there is no escape from it, and veganism as an attempt to keep animals from suffering is an artifical construct with no true logic. Nobody can live unless something dies, and if that something is not meat, eventually nothing can live at all. there is suffering inherent in everything we do. It is the biggest mystery of creation to me.

That exchange of energy is core to survival, and the food chain does not work without animals. However, I find it troubling the way people devalue what they must kill, or judge those who participate in killing to eat, rather than respect and honor that death -- which is a transformation into other life.

The sacrifice that a cow makes is not trivial to that cow, but to do something beautiful with that sacrifice is one way we can honor it. So long as we must kill to survive, making useful and beautiful things is an act of magic, not cruelty. Using a piece of leather with respect and consciousness is not as easy as treating it like an object whose creation is our right. But it is the right thing to do. It's just not as easy on one's desire to be "kind" as is veganism.

Use your leather with honor and respect and it is a better thing that leaving that leather for someone to use mindlessly or letting it go to waste. As for kindness, when you do something to be kind rather than to do what is right (not an easy thing to know, of course) you are so in danger of becoming morally corrupt. Immoral kindness is practically a sure thing particularly if it leads a person to feel they are better, or more valuable, or have the right to dictate to others, because they are not causing suffering. Of course they are. We all do. See above -- the food chain is the tragedy of life. And here's the irony -- what a beautiful life it is.

Respectfully,

Pat

[Go2Tex]

I'm afraid there will be no compromise here. Poor Noah is going to have to choose between his hobby and his girl. Ah heck, it wouldn't be the first time that happened in history! Women are always making us men folk change our habbits and hobbies. And we DO IT damn fast too if we want to continue to enjoy our most favorite hobby..... the one we can't live without.

So, Noah ol' buddy.... suck it up, Dude. Take up golf or something, 'cause you ain't gonna win this one. At least not for a while. If it's that good, and apparently to you it is damn fine stuff, then you hang in there and wait until the little lady moves on to some other cause du jour and then you can take up the leather hobby again.

Good luck to you and I hope this post didn't OFFEND anyone.

[azrider]

I will not even mention the Veganism, but when I read this thread I started thinking about what makes leather work for what we want to make out of it. As someone who enjoys making things with my hands, I understand wanting to create and design things. As some one who is married, I understand the need to make your significant other happy too.

For making sheaths and belts, you have already found some substitutes, but they won't take tooling. What lets the leather hold a tooled impression is the celluloid structure. When the tool crushes the fibers, the impression stays. The only other substance I could think of that might be a substitute is also natural. I have worked with very green wood before, and remember that you can make impressions and such on it with out it breaking. Once it dries these impressions are a set part of the wood. (It has to be very green, like within hours of being attached to a tree.) Soft wood would probably be the best. I lived in AZ for 30 years, and played around with Palo Verde wood some. It is very soft, and contains a lot of moisture when it comes off the tree. If you were able to split it and either plane or sand the surface, without letting it dry out, you might be able to tool some designs in the surface. Good luck in finding a way to continue using the skills and tools from leatherworking in another medium.

[rawhide1]

I've thought on this a little bit and maybe Kevin Johnson comments and others should of been kept to ourselves inculding mine. Because Noah wasn't asking for advice on his relationship he was asking for our help. But I also find it pretty sad and distasteful that certian people find it okay to jump all over Kevin. I think Noah gets the point that not all of ya agree with Kevins comments. But Kevin is entitled to his say just like the rest of ya. So how is it any different for you folks to bash Kevin. Just wondering? Mike

[AgronZoti]

There are no reservations here for raising 'roo! They don't need to do that, as they are everywhere. They are even in some small towns. There are millions across the country. We live about 20 mile from the capital city and we get wallaby in the paddocks and sometimes in the yard. Last year 2 of us shot 1500 of them about 1 mile from my house and hardly made a dent in their numbers. The meat is used for pet food but we do eat a few of them ourselves.

It is good leather.

Tony.

Well i have read that there are parks were they have to thin out the heard, and the animals are taken down in a humain manor, and as far as i rember they had som sort of gov. certificat.. alot of ppl thies days have a problem with roo hides, becouse thier huge numbers are a problem, folks get rather creativ killing them... i think thats why roo leather is baned in some places... witch is rather stupit... becouse the ppl living with the problem roo's are still gona get rid of them... I say its better to buy from them and give them and ecenomic incentiv to do it as humanly as posible.

(I didnt have time to run this thrue a spell checker sorry)

Ill try and find the link to that park...

[TwinOaks]

Well, let's throw religion into the mix and see where it ends up (I'll get the fire extinguisher readyfor all the flame responses).

Romans 14:1-3

There. Now according to that (applicable to those of the various Christian faiths), we can't criticize Noah's girlfriend's beliefs and she can't criticize ours.

Let's move on with this thread, now that the insults, wry humor, and other comments and appologies have been made.

Back on topic: Any alternative leather sources that Noah could use? There's been some good responses so far, let's keep them coming.

Edited March 29, 2009 by TwinOaks

[JayO]

Why don't you make her a purse or a pair of shoes out of carrot and potatoe skins.

That may be acceptable.

Soon, you may not be allowed to eat meat either. Think about it. When you met her

were you looking for a girlfriend or a menu? You both have hard choices to make and it should

not only be you who has to give in.

Good luck.

John.