Sewing machine help.

[Grunt]

I have my new sewing machine all set up and I am learning how to use it. Right now I am using the needle that came on the machine when it arrived along with the spool of thread (size 207) that came with the machine both top and bottom. Although sewing with a sewing machine is not as hard as thought it would be, I think my machine may need some adjustment. I have included some pictures to see what I need to do.

The pics are of a "practice piece" knife sheath.

The first pic is of an area where I sewed forward and then in reverse. The stitches did not go into the same holes. Is there some trick to this? Is there a certain way I am supposed to reverse the stitches?

Here is a front view of the sheath. The stitch length seems change a little bit as I sewed along

Here is view of the rear of the sheath. Are the back of the stitches supposed to look like this?

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Nick

[Bree]

Nick...

Bring your needle down to the very bottom. Then raise the needle 1/4" and move the reverse lever all the way up. The needle should slide right into the original holes. That is how you do it on Artisan machines. Other machines may have a different technique.

Your tension may be off a bit on the bottom. You can adjust your tension a little to see if you can get a nice even bottom stitch.

I would not have done the two straight stitches across your sheath's back. I think that seriously weakens the sheath. I would also increase my stitch length a bit. But even so your stitch length should be constant so I think you have a problem there. Might be a feed dog problem. Might be that the machine needs adjustment. Not sure. Give details about your machine.

[neelsaddlery]

Nick:

Is your machine a 441 clone style machine? If it is, please consider the following:

Try this on the machine to see if it has been "zeroed" for the forward stitch to match the reverse stitch:

Drop the needle down to its lowest position (at the bottom of the stroke), then lift the reverse lever all the way up as high as it will go and back down and so forth. With the needle at its lowest position, and by you moving the reverse lever up and down as far as it will go each way, you should see no front to back to motion of the needle bar. In other words, the needle bar should stay exactly where it is each time you move the lever up and down.

If the needle bar does move front to back a bit when flipping the reverse lever up and down, then there could be an issue with the alignment of the internal components in the machine which are responsible with the reverse. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to change the internal components in the machine, but you can shim the plate that has the stitch length numbers on it out away from the casting a bit using some washers and that may make the forward stitch more closely line up with the reverse stitch. In other words, you'll either shim the top or bottom of the plate out a bit with some washers to compensate for the irregularity in forward vs reverse stitch length. It may sound crude to do it like this, but it would save you a big disassembly.

Also, as far as when to engage the reverse while sewing, I personally prefer to let the needle travel all the way down to the bottom of the stroke before I engage the reverse lever. Under normal circumstances, this will insure the alignment of the forward and reverse stitches.

I also saw the photos you sent where one side of the sheath has bigger stitches than the other. There are many things that can cause this. Please consider the following:

1. Make sure you are pulling the reverse lever all the way down and up when you are using it. If the lever is not all the way up or down in the slot, this can make the stitch length vary.

2. Make sure that the reverse lever has a bit of resistance to it when you lift it up and down. It should not lift up or down too easiliy. I have seen some of these 441 machines that have too little drag on the reverse lever, which actually makes it move up and down a bit when stitching. If the reverse lever is pulsing up and down when the machine is running, this will make the stitch vary quite a bit. There is a clamp screw inside the machine near the reverse lever which can be tightened to put a little more drag on the lever and make it feel a bit more stiff.

3. How about the alternation of the walking feet? Is the inside presser foot lifting up enough to allow the machine to pull the leather through OK? If not, I can tell you how to make the adjustment to allow the inside foot to lift up more. The inside foot should definitely lift up and clear the leather you are sewing.

4. Is the feed dog raising up enough in the slot of the needle plate? The feed dog should be at least 1/16" above the top of the needle plate when it is at its highest point.

5. Are you certain the machine is threaded correctly? I know this sounds stupid, but I have seen instances where excessive thread tension can cause a smaller stitch. Of course, if the thread tension is too much, then you might also fray or break thread.

6. Is the thickness of the leather the same on each side of the sheath? You will find that the thicker the leather, the smaller the stitch will become. If one side of the sheath is heavier than the other, then this could explain the stitch length difference.

That is about all I can think of to be checking right now. There are a few more things to check that are not so obvious, but if you go through this list first and everything is the way it is supposed to be, then we can look at this a bit further.

Hope this is of some help to you. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.

Kindest Regards,

Ryan O. Neel

Neel's Saddlery and Harness

Cowboy Sewing Machines

Edited April 5, 2009 by neelsaddlery

[DeeAnna]

I agree with Bree about not stitching across a strap in a straight line. Make the line of stitching in an arc, a swoop, a "W" shape ... anything other than straight across. I got a project in the other day to re-create an old belt that looked like it was originally made in the 1930s or 40s. The buckle had been fastened in place with straight crosswise stitching. It took a long time, admittedly, but the leather eventually cracked and broke right across the stitching after years of flexing and use. I've worked on straps much older than this one that did not have this type of damage. The stitching on these was more-or-less parallel to the length of the strap.

In my experience, the underside of a line of machine stitching on leather seldom looks as nice as the top, especially when the needle is punching through the grain layer from inside to out, as on your sheath. The edges of the exit hole are a little "frayed" and hide the stitches to some degree.

As far as your stitch length varying, I also agree with Bree that it shouldn't be doing that. Could be a machine problem, could be a people problem. Some possibilities:

Are you stitching UP hill where your stitches are shorter and DOWN hill where your stitches are longer? (In other words, did this sheath have a tapered welt?)

Could you have consciously or unconsciously been pushing or pulling on the piece as you stitched?

Was your machine at the upper limit of its capacity for the thickness of the leather you were trying to stitch?

Is your presser foot pressure too light?

When you stitched in reverse, was the presser foot off the edge (or nearly off the edge) of the leather so the leather slipped more than it should have?

Yanno, if I were in your shoes, I'd get to know the machine better and build my sewing skills under low-stress conditions before trying a challenging project such as your sheath. (Maybe you've done that already?) If not, I'd try sewing on one layer of scrap leather that is somewhere in the middle of the thickness range for the machine. For my flatbed, that would be about 10-12 oz. Play with the stitch length, tension, and presser foot settings. Play with the reverse. What does it take to get the best stitch quality and consistency under those circumstances?

Maybe there's something wrong with the machine ... or maybe it's just inexperience creating these problems. I don't know which it is at this point, but if it were me and my new machine, I'd just "play" for a bit before I'd assume the machine is faulty. --DeeAnna

[neelsaddlery]

Nick:

Saw from your profile that you bought a "Cobra 3/Artisan3000" machine. Did the machine already have the flat/slotted needle plate installed on it? Is there a feed dog installed on the machine?

If it has the flat/slotted needle plate on it, then it will NOT have a feed dog installed. The flat/slotted plate has just a thin slit in it for the needle to go down through it. If it has the standard plate on it, then the slot will be much wider and the feed dog will travel through the plate.

Some sellers set these up differently. If it has the flat/slotted needle plate installed on it, I may know what is wrong.

Hope to hear back form you soon.

Kindest Regards,

Ryan O. Neel

Neel's Saddlery and Harness

Cowboy Sewing Machines

[barra]

Deeanna touched on it.

Could you have consciously or unconsciously been pushing or pulling on the piece as you stitched?

One of the primary rules of machine sewing is to let the machine do the work. All your hands do is steer the work. In other words do not fight with it. It is kind of like driving down a steep gradient in a car. Select the appropriate gear and let the motor do the work so you aren't trying to drive your brake foot through the floor.

Barra

[TwinOaks]

My inexperience talking here, but I was under the impression that when using a machine, you should have a slightly smaller thread on the bottom. The OP states that 207 is used top and bottom. Could this be an issue as well?

[Art]

With 207 and down, I tend to use the same thread top and bottom, however a smaller thread in the bobbin shouldn't cause a problem. On the medium size machines, I don't like the rotary hook for much over 138 so if I wanted to run 207 in a smaller machine, I'd run it on the top with 138 in the bobbin. When you have problems like this it should be back to basics. With thread size 207, you should use a 25/200 tri point or "D" needle. Make sure your work is moving freely through the machine and not hanging up on the thread slot (sometimes when you back tack you make a big knot that will hang up in the end of the slot) also excessive tension can sometimes cause the work to retreat a little after advance and give a shorter stitch. Don't hold your work too tightly, just guide it. Handwheel your machine the first few times you use it, all the way through so you can see what is going on; the machine does not have to be running at speed to make a proper stitch so you can go a slow as you want, if it sews fine handwheeling, then you may be putting pressure on the work when you guide it, don't push or pull the work through.

Art

My inexperience talking here, but I was under the impression that when using a machine, you should have a slightly smaller thread on the bottom. The OP states that 207 is used top and bottom. Could this be an issue as well?

[esantoro]

With 207 and down, I tend to use the same thread top and bottom, however a smaller thread in the bobbin shouldn't cause a problem. On the medium size machines, I don't like the rotary hook for much over 138 so if I wanted to run 207 in a smaller machine, I'd run it on the top with 138 in the bobbin. When you have problems like this it should be back to basics. With thread size 207, you should use a 25/200 tri point or "D" needle. Make sure your work is moving freely through the machine and not hanging up on the thread slot (sometimes when you back tack you make a big knot that will hang up in the end of the slot) also excessive tension can sometimes cause the work to retreat a little after advance and give a shorter stitch. Don't hold your work too tightly, just guide it. Handwheel your machine the first few times you use it, all the way through so you can see what is going on; the machine does not have to be running at speed to make a proper stitch so you can go a slow as you want, if it sews fine handwheeling, then you may be putting pressure on the work when you guide it, don't push or pull the work through.

Art

Art's suggestions have made me think of some other issues:

1. Back off on the presser foot tension.

2. Check to make sure that the inner and outer feet are rising high enough but not too high for the thickness of the leather with which you are working.

3. There might be some variation among these 441 clones, but I like my stitch length setting for most work to be set right on the underscore beneath the "6".

Just a few thoughts,

ed

[Cobra Steve]

Grunt, I know what your problem is,call me at 1-866-962-9880 and I can walk you through it over the phone. Thanks, Steve

[esantoro]

Grunt,

When you talk to Steve, could you take notes and post what you find out here? The info would be a nice addition to the forum.

Ed

[neelsaddlery]

Nick:

Yes, if you can, please let us know if the suggestions worked or not. I personally know of no adjustment inside the machine other than what I mentioned that can make the reverse feed line up with the forward feed in cases where it does not on the 441 clone style machines, other than doing some serious disassembly and changing the geometry of some parts by machining.

If there is some special adjustment that can be made, please let us know about it.

Kindest Regards,

Ryan O. Neel

Neel's Saddlery and Harness

Cowboy Sewing Machines

Edited April 6, 2009 by neelsaddlery

[Art]

Hi Ryan,

The original (and subsequent) Juki 441 didn't line-up either. Neither did the Adlers. That's where the washers and then the "wedge" came from, and when that didn't always work they came up with the adjustable wedge, which works. The only adjustment inside is for tightening the friction required to move the stitch length arm.

Art

Nick:

Yes, if you can, please let us know if the suggestions worked or not. I personally know of no adjustment inside the machine other than what I mentioned that can make the reverse feed line up with the forward feed in cases where it does not on the 441 clone style machines, other than doing some serious disassembly and changing the geometry of some parts by machining.

If there is some special adjustment that can be made, please let us know about it.

Kindest Regards,

Ryan O. Neel

Neel's Saddlery and Harness

Cowboy Sewing Machines

[neelsaddlery]

Hi Ryan,

The original (and subsequent) Juki 441 didn't line-up either. Neither did the Adlers. That's where the washers and then the "wedge" came from, and when that didn't always work they came up with the adjustable wedge, which works. The only adjustment inside is for tightening the friction required to move the stitch length arm.

Art

Art:

That is pretty much what I thought. In all my experience with these machines I have never found any method inside the machine which allows for adjustment of the reverse mechanism. Outside the machine you can do the "wedge" shimming or some variation on this, but that is all I ever knew you could do, with the exception of complete disassembly and re-machining of parts.

Kindest Regards,

Ryan O. Neel

Neel's Saddlery and Harness

Cowboy Sewing Machines

[CowboyBob]

I had the same problem once years ago when I sold a harness plate to a customer that bought a Juki 441 from me yrs ago.I must of spent 5 hrs on it (shimming front cover & etc)& put the standard plate & feed dog back in it & that cured it.

My theory is the slotted plate too much drag in rev.

Bob Kovar

[SteveBrambley]

Hi Ryan,

The original (and subsequent) Juki 441 didn't line-up either. Neither did the Adlers. That's where the washers and then the "wedge" came from, and when that didn't always work they came up with the adjustable wedge, which works. The only adjustment inside is for tightening the friction required to move the stitch length arm.

Art

Hi,

The earlier Adler 105 and 104 machines have independent adjustment for the forward and reverse stitching and, with a bit of patient 'fiddling', can be made to line-up. Unfortunately, the later 205 and 204s don't, and are therefore a bit of a pain trying to make a neat back-tack.

Steve