replacing a suede seat

[joppstack]

I was wondering if any of you had some tips on replacing the suede seat in a saddle? I've done a few but would love some tips to make the job a little easier. One problem I have is after I remove the old suede, I try to lay it out to make a pattern to cut out the new one. Sometimes it's really hard to get an even pattern because the old seat is stretched and doesn't lay very flat. Is this how most of you do it or do you make a paper pattern? Trying to pull it tight and keep the wrinkles out while keeping both sides even is really a chore. On the sides I try to drop it down about a 1/2" below the old stitch holes but around the top by the handhold it's hard to keep a nice stitch because I keep hitting the old holes. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks.... Neil

[kseidel]

Neil,

The best way to install an overlaid padded seat, whether new or used, is to fit the new piece in the saddle over the rubber, mark the outline, remove, trim, glue into place and then stitch. Sounds easy huh! It is really not that hard.

With the seat in the saddle, (if stitching by hand, the cantle can be glued into the dish of the tree. If machine stitching, the seat must be loose.) lay your new suede leather across the seat. Begin fitting at the narrowest part. Most people tack it into place with blued tacks. I have found a staple gun to be invaluable for this job. Tack (or staple) the narrowest part on one side, snug across to the same narrowest part on the other side and tack. Leave about 3/4" and cut a relief cut straight out each side. Smooth the suede leather forward to the center of the hand hole cut out and tack there. Then go back to the tacks at the narrowest part on each side and work your way forward 3 or 4 tacks at a time on each side. If using a staple gun, the wide frontal surface of the gun helps push the suede leather into place. Put the tacks or staples right into the stitch line. Work your way forward all the way to the front of the seat, a little bit on each side. Then go back to the center and following the same methods, work your way to the back cantle. Then do the front of the seat starting at the point farthest forward. I like to use the staple gun and put the staples in close together. Then, using tailor's chalk, mark a line just below the staples or tacks. Leave the front long if rolling around the end. If cutting flush with the edge, fold the leather over the edge and mark the edge with the chalk. Now mark the edge of the seat ear next to the cantle. We do not want to cut past the edge of the seat! Now you can remove all of the staples or tacks, and lay the suede on your bench. You can see the outline very clearly. I usually scallop or pink this edge about 1/16" outside the line. Do not cut past the cantle ear! You can trim the excess along the sides about an inch forward of the cantle ear. This ensures that you have enough suede leather to lay over the cantle binding and not have a hole at the seat ear. Now it's ready to glue in. Glue fairly heavily and glue the edges first, then a heavy layer of glue throughout the center. Only glue from the dish forward, don't try to glue the whole seat in at once. While the glue in the middle of the seat is still wet, and the edges are tacky, you can put your suede back where you fitted it, starting in the same way at the narrowest points in the center. You don't need tacks at this point, the glue should hold. Once the narrowest part of the seat is fitted, go directly to the front, fit the center of the hand hole then each forward point. Then go back to the middle and work your way forward on each side pulling the leather into place where you want it on the stitch line. Then go back to the middle and work your way back on each side. It works best to go an inch or two at a time on each side, smoothing the suede as you go. Let the glue dry for a half hour or so, then stitch.

Once you have the front glued in, if the seat is already glued into the saddle, you can go ahead and glue the back into place. While the glue is still a little bit wet, press down the center and up the back of the cantle, right down the middle. Only stick the front face, don't roll over the back yet. Then pull the slack into the corners first and lay them over the roll. Then go back to the center and splitting the cantle, pull the suede over the roll. Then you can trim and install your cantle binding.

See, I told you it wasn't so hard. I hope this isn't too hard to follow. Best of luck!

Keith

[hidepounder]

Pretty easy to follow, Keith...not as easy to do, I'll bet!

[kseidel]

Its really not that hard. It usually takes me about 2 hours to do a full padded seat from start to finish. Of course I have the added benefit of having done several hundred of them.....

Keith

[hidepounder]

Its really not that hard. It usually takes me about 2 hours to do a full padded seat from start to finish. Of course I have the added benefit of having done several hundred of them.....

Keith

I get asked every now and then by friends, to replace the seats in their roping saddles....so far I've been able to weasal out...I'm not comfortable taking on a task like that, having never done one. I'm confident I could do a good job, but at what cost to me or my customer? (two hours woud be out of the question for this old slowpoke!). I really don't want to do repairs, but I feel bad turning friends down sometimes. Your explanation of the process confirms what I had imagined and takes the mystery out of what I didn't know. Thanks!

Bob

[joppstack]

Keith...

Thanks for the great tips I'm definitely going to put them to use. I have never tried using tacks or staples. I always thought they would leave holes you could see in the suede. Also, what type of glue do you use? I have been using barge cement, Is there something better? I have to do a stingray seat this Friday and I want to make sure to get things just right... If you screw up with this it's game-over, Its just barely big enough to fit. Also keeping the spine lined up and centered I'm sure will be a real joy!! Thanks again.... Neil

[Randy Cornelius]

!). I really don't want to do repairs, but I feel bad turning friends down sometimes.

I used to think that way also but now I look at repairs as a learning eperiance and an adventure, not knowing how it's going to turn out until it's done. I remember the first padded seat repair I did. I took my time and it came out fine and the customer, who was a friend was very satisfied. Those pesky mice keep us in business. I have seen your work, you have nothing to fear. Jump in with both feet, I have a saying, "ANYTHING FOR A BUCK".

Putting in the new decorative stitching in the seat has not been coved so I will tell you guys how I do it. I take a piece of constuction paper and draw out the design on the paper, Then I take said paper to the sewing machine and remove the thread and sew out the design, punching all those littl holes. Then I lay the paper over the new seat leather and take baby powder and rub all over the paper, a small amount of the powder will transfer the pattern onto the leather thus giving me a powdered stitch line to follow on the machine, remember to put the thread back in! You can also glue foam on the backside of the leather before you sew to give it that puffy look.

I had three of these came in all in the same week last year and have not had one since?

Randy

[daviD A Morris]

....... I take a piece of constuction paper and draw out the design on the paper, Then I take said paper to the sewing machine and remove the thread and sew out the design, punching all those littl holes. Then I lay the paper over the new seat leather and take baby powder and rub all over the paper, a small amount of the powder will transfer the pattern onto the leather thus giving me a powdered stitch line to follow on the machine,..........Randy

What exactly is "construction paper" its sure to be called by a different name here in Australia!!. I find that by unsing a needle in the machine which has the point ground off blunt works better. The sharp needle makes a slit which just closes up again and the powder does not go through the holes onto the leather, the blunt needle "punches" holes that don't close up as much. Maybe if I was using construction paper that would not happen.

regards

dam

[Randy Cornelius]

Any heavy paper will do. Poster board or some thing a little lighter, by using heavy paper the holes don't close up as bad as regular paper do. What I use is called chip board from the paper company I buy it from. It is what I use to make all my patterns from. Kinda like what is in the back of a note book pad for stiffner.

[daviD A Morris]

Thanks Randy,

We'd just call that cardboard.

dam

[kseidel]

Keith...

what type of glue do you use? I have been using barge cement, Is there something better?

My favorite is XL8 contact cement.

[kseidel]

What exactly is "construction paper" its sure to be called by a different name here in Australia!!.

dam

David,

Craft paper like they use to make paper grocery bags works well. It is available in various weights. I like to fold it down the center to make a pattern that I only have to draw and stitch half and unfold for the whole seat. I use this paper for making temp patterns and such. I buy it in huge rolls!

Keith

[keplerts]

When I start gluing the suede on do I put contact cement on both the seat leather AND the suede? Or do I just put the cement on the saddle seat part? Hope this makes sense. Thanks for any insight to this.

Tom

[kseidel]

Glue both sides, and stick it together while wet do you can slide it into place before it sets.

[keplerts]

Thanks, Keith! This is the first one I have ever done and I following your explanation. It is time to do the gluing. So far so good up to this point! Thanks again.

Tom

[keplerts]

Okay, have the seat glued and stitched in. Now going to do the binding. Should I wet the binding

to help reform it around the cantel? Do I install it with the glue wet like I did with the suede?

Thanks,

Tom

[kseidel]

Assuming this is a repair job... wetting the cantle binding is not necessary as it is already formed to fit. finding the holes and lining them up is the hardest part and is quite important if you want it to fit like it was originally. It is easier to fit with the glue a little wet on the top surface, but the under side will be pretty tacky by the time you get to it. But yes, assemble it with the glue wet also. Keith

[Squilchuck]

Glad to find this old topic. I've managed to not fix any seats, but want to do a favor for one of the young kids in our club. A learning experience! I've made a few saddles but never with an added seat leather or padding. Keith's instructions are good, but a couple questions. 

Can I use rubber cement effectively instead of contact cement? Stohlman uses rubber cement in his saddle making book. Seems like rubber cement is more forgiving w a novice like me, but I wonder about sticking over the life of the saddle. Seems like it should w a rider sitting on it?

Stitching repairs is always tricky getting in the old holes. Any tips for doing that? I have a machine, but can hand sew if best. - John

[Ken Nelson]

I use contact cement and put a lot of patch seats on saddles.

[Goldshot Ron]

John,

Photos would be nice if possible.  I've done a few seats, and each one was different.  Also, I usually hand stitch to line up the original holes on repairs.  What type of padding are you using?  How large is the padded area: full, half-seat, or insert?

Ron

[Ken Nelson]

I build a large portion of my saddles with a full "patch seat".  It is a heavy full grain chap type leather-5/6 oz. buckstitched in with latigo buckstitch lace that I cut myself.  These saddles are custom saddles and that is what the orders call for. Suede side ( roughout) out.   I don't use any padding under them as they are ordered that way.  I discourage putting padding in seats as I have seen so many of them break down if they are rode hard in extreme weather conditions.  I used to get some seat padding years ago but don't remember who had it.  It was about 1/8" thick and had a cloth back on it.  I was sewing patterns in it and it seemed to hold up  just OK.   A suede seat, especially with padding under it,  will absorb water and will gall you and gall you bad if you ride it wet and on a hot day.  They are miserable to ride wet on a cold day and I have done both hot and cold. 

In my opinion,  how good a saddle rides is dependent on how good a ground seat it has and how well it fits you.

[Squilchuck]

Here's a photo. She wants top grain  leather but no stitching (good).  The padding feels OK. I'll decide on replacing padding when I disassemble, but probably should replace since it will be apart. I've read about padding others use, but not sure of the best option. 

A question - could I get away with not pulling the seat off the cantle dish and still lift it enough to hand sew? -John