Singer 111w155 or the Consew 225 clone

[unclebubba]

Having never owned an industrial sewing machine before, I have found a Singer sewing machine technician about 50 mile away that

has some older black singer 111w155's and some Consew 225's for sale with motor and table. He will deliver and sew them

off for around $600. I would like to know if this is a decent price, and which would you buy the Singer or the Consew. Is there

a benefit for one over the other since the consew 225 is a clone and probably a newer machine

[Luke Hatley]

machines.... $600.00 delivered would be about right. He is making $$$$$$

on the sale. But be sure that the machines will sew well and try sewing with #138 thread

on the top. if he is at your house showing you what the machines can do then this

is a plus.

either one of the machines will be great for lite weight to medium weight leather.

be sure to ask him for leather needles.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Luke Hatley

[captkit]

Having never owned an industrial sewing machine before, I have found a Singer sewing machine technician about 50 mile away that

has some older black singer 111w155's and some Consew 225's for sale with motor and table. He will deliver and sew them

off for around $600. I would like to know if this is a decent price, and which would you buy the Singer or the Consew. Is there

a benefit for one over the other since the consew 225 is a clone and probably a newer machine

I used a 111w154 to make clothes and handbags at my shop in the 1970's. That machine never failed and taught me machine mechanics (it is simple). The 155 is a better machine, more precise and quieter. In those days Consew was considered a knockoff. I would buy the Singer unless the Consew has reverse stitching. You can live without reverse but why? Also, if the guy has them look at an older Juki they're very good.

[Cobra Steve]

Uncle Bubba, the Singer 111W155 and the Consew 225 are basically the same machine. Both are great machines. Neither one has reverse. If you are going to use for leather, you will probably will have to change the motor and possibly add a speed reducer if you want it to perform the way a true leather stitcher does. Other than that, they will last a long time, and parts are always available. Thanks, Steve

[neelsaddlery]

Having never owned an industrial sewing machine before, I have found a Singer sewing machine technician about 50 mile away that

has some older black singer 111w155's and some Consew 225's for sale with motor and table. He will deliver and sew them

off for around $600. I would like to know if this is a decent price, and which would you buy the Singer or the Consew. Is there

a benefit for one over the other since the consew 225 is a clone and probably a newer machine

From the perspective of a dealer, I would say that you would be getting a decent price here, as long as the dealer is willing to go over the machine and replace any worn parts, etc. However, if he is just selling the machine as he gets it, and not bothering to do any reconditioning, then it might be a better idea to look elsewhere.

These old 111 and 225 machines go pretty cheap at auction, and even cheaper when plants close and they are bought out. I have had offers to buy complete units out of plant closings for as little as $100.00-$150.00 each, with stand, motor, table, and machine head.

Auction prices for these machines (for sale to end users) would be anywhere from $200.00-$300.00. I see them go in excellent condition in an average year at the Weaver auction. I see them go for much less in off years at the Weaver auction.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[kevinhopkins]

Hi... The price is ok, but like Steve said, unless you're a "sewing machine person", you'll probably want to put a servo motor and a speed reducer on it. Otherwise, you need to get used to the idea that you're going to have to go thru a learning curve with your happy little foot! Those clutch motors take off like a shot! Good machines tho.

Happy sewing!

Kevin

[neelsaddlery]

If you are trying to buy the machine on a budget, and don't have the extra cash for a servo motor or speed reducer, then you can do the following:

1. If the motor is a 1725 RPM motor, then get the smallest pulley you can find to put on it. The smallest pulleys that we find for most Amco style clutch motors are in the range of 2" to 2 1/8" in diameter. If the pulley on the motor is larger than this, then the machine will go too fast.

2. On the clutch motor, adjust the lever tension to the highest possible setting. This will not only allow the brake on the clutch motor to work more effectively, but will also make it a bit harder to push down on the pedal. This hopefully will stop the urge for you to slam the pedal to the floor, making the motor take off at top speed.

3. You can also wrap a bungee cord around the lever on the clutch motor to increase pedal resistance. This again will make it less likely that you'll stomp the pedal to the floor.

4. Try placing a block of wood under the treadle pedal. This will allow the pedal to go down only so far, which again can help control the speed a bit.

These suggestions should be used only if you don't want to pony up the extra money for a speed reducer or servo motor. The servo motors will run around the $140.00-$160.00 price range, and the speed reducers can run around $125.00 or so. This is over half of what you will pay for the machine.

If you add the $600.00 purchase price to the $300.00 motor and reducer combo, then you are looking at close to $900.00. We sell brand new complete walking foot machines with servo motors installed for this price!!!

If you need to add a reducer and servo motor to it, then it is not worth the $600.00 price tag. Look elsewhere for a better deal.

Edited August 14, 2009 by neelsaddlery

[JoeS]

Uncle Bubba,

From a new guys perspective, if you have some patience you can pick up old machines on craigs list much cheaper. I picked up a 111-154, 2 31-15s and a patcher with tables and motors each for under $100. The down side is they probably have been laying somewhere and need a lot of cleaning and tuning up. I learned a lot from www.needlebar.org forum and you can get many of the old singer manuals online as well. The 111-154 I have is identical to the juki 563 we have at work except for the reverse lever. The thing rips so fast I can't use it but the seamstress at work loves it. A treadle is my top speed now, but I haven't put years in on them yet.

Happy Hunting,

joe

[coheteia]

I just purchased a 111w155 last month. I am having moderate success controlling the speed of the machine by putting a ball under the petal, however, I am still interested in a servo motor and speed reducer per this websites recommendations. My questions are why would I need both? Can I just buy one or the other to reduce the speed and are there certain brands or models that work best with this machine?

Thanks,

Heather

[Northmount]

Motors lose torque at low speeds. So if you are trying to punch through thick or hard temper leather a stitch at a time going around a tight curve, the motor is going too slow to produce the torque needed. The addition of a speed reduce set of pulleys gets the motor speed back up, and increases the torque available to your machine.

If a speed reduce is 4:1 speed reduction, it will give you a 4x torque amplification besides the increased available motor torque due to its higher speed.

Tom

[CowboyBob]

Look on this site about "Servo motor on Consew 206",Colt Knight posted some info there.

I tried to cut & paste it to here but it won't work !

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=58290&p=374877

Edited September 13, 2014 by northmount
Added link

[w0lfgh0st]

I'm looking at a 111w155 with a servo for $500... seems like a good deal, but I'm not sure what it's capable of.

Will this punch through some tough leather? My bf does belts and baldericks, usually 8-9oz vegitan with thinner leather for French rolled edges. 

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, w0lfgh0st said:

I'm looking at a 111w155 with a servo for $500... seems like a good deal, but I'm not sure what it's capable of.

Will this punch through some tough leather? My bf does belts and baldericks, usually 8-9oz vegitan with thinner leather for French rolled edges. 

If the machine is adjusted for its maximum rated alternating foot lift, it should sew up to 3/8 inch of material, occasionally. The largest practical thread size is #138.

The tougher the leather, the more pressure you need to apply to the feet to prevent the leather from lifting with the needle. In the same vein, the larger the needle, the higher the foot pressure that is needed. You'll probably max it out using a #23 leather point needle, with #138 bonded thread, at no more than 3/8". Also, 3/8" should not be the regular thickness being sewn. That will wear out the machine before its time. A more practical regular sewn thickness would be between 1/4" and 5/16". The friction will heat up the needle and might melt the thread.

[w0lfgh0st]

Thank you! I'm trying to find a decent machine that won't break the bank (ME! :-D) but can handle the leather he works with. I might be a little too far on the side of wishful thinking. 

[Jnap]

I have a similar scenario and despite researching the posts on this site I am still unsure which machine to go with. I have the option of a 111w154 with servo motor for $400 or a consew 225 for $300. I have no experience sewing. This machine will be used primarily for learning, and maintenance on 9oz canvas and whatever else this hobby turns into. From what I gather from all the knowledge posted here, I would need to add a servo motor to the 225 putting both these machines within approx $50 of each other. Both come with tables, motors, etc. And both current owners have only used them as home hobby machines. I have been searching for a walking foot with reverse but have come up with nothing close to the $400 range. As a beginner with no experience your information to help me with this decision would be much appreciated. 

[brmax]

It’s a good thing finding these. 

A servo motor is a real need in sewing, it is a step in your or others learning. Im not sure who termed it; Times have changed. Though I seam to hear it all the time, kids!

In roughing out this question, it would be an anvantage for your discussion to be a new topic. Possibly with a photo of each, these are just a start, but seriously a helpful one. 

I would ask if these are setup for the Top sized thread they were designed for, that being 138. Getting specfic in this question may help a bit later. 

These exact machines are still used regularly actually, so any technique for a reverse or locking stitch may be a good tip in training as on any machine really.

Good day

Floyd

 

[Jnap]

5 hours ago, brmax said:

It’s a good thing finding these. 

A servo motor is a real need in sewing, it is a step in your or others learning. Im not sure who termed it; Times have changed. Though I seam to hear it all the time, kids!

In roughing out this question, it would be an anvantage for your discussion to be a new topic. Possibly with a photo of each, these are just a start, but seriously a helpful one. 

I would ask if these are setup for the Top sized thread they were designed for, that being 138. Getting specfic in this question may help a bit later. 

These exact machines are still used regularly actually, so any technique for a reverse or locking stitch may be a good tip in training as on any machine really.

Good day

Floyd

 

Information on these machines seems to be very limited as they were both acquired from "grandma's basement" and not actually used by their current owners so that doesn't help too much. What is involved with setting up the machine to handle 138 thread? 

[Constabulary]

I´d most likely would buy the Consew and add a servo motor as is is in better condition and for sure the newer machine with "less milleage"

[dikman]

Performance-wise both of those machines should be pretty much the same. The Consew is showing less paint wear, which suggests it hasn't been used as much so might be the better buy (although you would need to buy a servo, as you say). As for using #138 thread, you need a bigger needle (size 22/23) and may need to adjust the hook timing a little, although my machines take #69 and #138 without needing adjusting.

[Jnap]

I agree in terms of the appearance of each machine, but the quote that is sticking in my head is that "the consew was considered a singer knock off".  Is one machine easier to operate than the other? I also do not know for sure the oiling system in each one. From what I've read here the consew has an oil pump therefore requiring the servo for slower speeds and proper lubrication, but what about the singer, is that manually oiled? What about maintenance/repairs/adjustments, (i am mechanically minded and able) is this something I can do own my own or does it requires a professional? Without any experience I have no idea of what it takes to keep these machines running properly and it sounds like there are quite a few adjustments that can be made all over the machine.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Jnap

[brmax]

Its in best interest to say most manufactures copied Singer, so using the term knock off is ok but the new term is clone! 

It doesnt look as though much paint is wore off the fabric/textile surface of either machine. Especially the Consew, it looks unused, although it is a very wise decision to have a look see under them metal inspection slide coverings. These are giving access to the hook and bobbin. 

This inspection is clearly important to establish a bit more visual on the important metal surfaces and their conditions. For some confidence bolstering Consew is a company that has been around a good while here in the States. 

With both machines, tilted back to get a better look at some more working parts it would be a good step. 

Im not sure on your “main” projects so, I will say the bobbins thread capacity may be the same in both. This means the same as any other, when its empty you wished it would have went just a bit farther. 

Good day

Floyd

 

[dikman]

Many of the older Consew's were made by Seiko and were basically Singer clones, nothing wrong with that. Consew's are generally considered to be good machines. According to the manual the 225 has 1/2" lift, should take #138 thread and is manually oiled. Me, I would take the Consew over the Singer (assuming it works, of course). Fit a servo and you'll be happy as the proverbial!

If you're mechanically able then armed with a suitable manual and the able assistance of this forum you shouldn't have too many problems adjusting and maintaining either one.

Edited January 18, 2018 by dikman

[Wizcrafts]

On 1/17/2018 at 5:00 PM, Jnap said:

I agree in terms of the appearance of each machine, but the quote that is sticking in my head is that "the consew was considered a singer knock off".  Is one machine easier to operate than the other? I also do not know for sure the oiling system in each one. From what I've read here the consew has an oil pump therefore requiring the servo for slower speeds and proper lubrication, but what about the singer, is that manually oiled? What about maintenance/repairs/adjustments, (i am mechanically minded and able) is this something I can do own my own or does it requires a professional? Without any experience I have no idea of what it takes to keep these machines running properly and it sounds like there are quite a few adjustments that can be made all over the machine.

There are NO new Singer industrial sewing machines available. They sold the business name and assets a long time ago. Any Singer sewing machine you buy is either used, as is, or rebuilt to some degree. So, although a particular machine is based on a Singer design and patent, it is likely much improved over the original. The more current the model/sub-model, the greater the improvement. Thus, Consew uses a -(number) naming system to specify the iteration of that series (e.g.; 206RB-5 is much newer and improved than a straight 206RB).

Machines with oil pumps are not meant for slow speed operation, with the exception of at least the new Consew P-1206RB. It has an integral oil pump that is strong enough to lubricate most of the machine at slow speeds, if the dealer makes an adjustment before shipping it out. The end plate moving parts may still need a few manually applied drops of oil every now and then.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Wizcrafts
Got important details about the automatic oiling system in the Consew P-1206RB from Bob Kovar.

[dikman]

Just re-read this and realised you're not quite comparing similar machines, as the Consew 225 is comparable to a 111W155, whereas the 111W154 doesn't have the material handling capability of the W155 (I really should read a bit slower!!). That makes the Consew the much better buy, in my opinion.

[Jnap]

Thank you very much for your responses. I have secured the consew and will be picking it up this weekend. I will have to wait a little bit to start learning it (honey do list) but I will continue using this forum in the meantime to gather as much information as possible. Thanks again!