Anyone run into this scam?

[electrathon]

The trouble with waiting for the chack to clear is that it will clear, and they will put the money in your account. Then about 2 months from now they will find out it is a very good forged check. Sometimes even the banks can not tell. Then they will subtract the money from your account. You are out your stuff and the money.

[TexasJack]

This scam hit another message board (knifemakers) about 2 years ago. It was run overseas and a couple of people lost money on it before they understood it was a scam. Like all con artist, they prey on your greed - a quick sale, usually for something expensive, maybe even a bunch of items at once (like 10 knives). They act like they're actually putting the money in your hand.

If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.

An alternative is to say that they'll send a check for more than the amount of the items and you can just send the change after shipping costs. They end up with the merchandise and some of your cash; you wind up with nothing.

Just to make this scam 'special', rumor has it that it's in the Al Qaida handbook as a means of raising cash.

[cdthayer]

That is yet to be seen. It depends on the amount of the check. If the check is for an amount much more than what I normally charge for the item plus shipping, that will be yet another sign. (Assuming I plan to open the letter, which I don't.)

Exactly, law enforcement can't get involved until something criminal actually takes place, and so far, nothing has. But that doesn't mean I have to deal with him. Whether he's trying to scam me, or just create a lot of hassles, this isn't going to be worth the trouble. So the current plan is to follow your earlier suggestion of sending the letter back unopened.

Kate

What's the reason for not opening the letter that has the check in it? If you plan to return it to the sender without incurring additional postage, chances are, if it's a scam, there either won't be a return address on the envelope, or the one that's on it is not the scammer's address anyway. You may end up paying additional postage when it gets returned to you "address unknown". You may be the only real person the Post Office can find to pay for the letter traveling through the system back and forth. I'm not sure that's how it would work, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Also, it seems like you'll need to see the check to know for sure that your suspicions are correct. And, wouldn't you want to keep the check, not cashing or depositing it of course, to have evidence in-hand if the scammer doesn't leave you alone after you tell them that you're not accepting payment that way? I'd write VOID across the front of it, put both the envelope and check in my drawer, and tell the buyer that the check has been rendered useless. I don't think that you're accepting payment by check until the check is cashed or deposited, are you? I think I'd hang onto it in case I needed to take the situation to the DA.

CD in Oklahoma

thayerrags.com

[CitizenKate]

Good point, CD. Actually, I'm thinking of just calling the DA's office and asking them what they think my best course of action is at this point. If I'm asking everyone's opinion, I might as well get theirs, too.

Kate

[Storm]

I have done business with personal checks and the client was already aware of two things.

1. Nothing is going to happen until their check clears.

2. I arrange for shipping and insurance of the item or items.

Also I might want to think about changing banks. If someone sends me a check and it bounces it goes back on them and not me.  The bank would in no way be deducting money from a personal account after the check had bounced. By the fact that their stating that the check has bounced means you are not getting a dime and for them to deduct the ammount of the check from your account does not seem legal or correct.

[Go2Tex]

I have done business with personal checks and the client was already aware of two things.

1. Nothing is going to happen until their check clears.

2. I arrange for shipping and insurance of the item or items.

Also I might want to think about changing banks. If someone sends me a check and it bounces it goes back on them and not me.  The bank would in no way be deducting money from a personal account after the check had bounced. By the fact that their stating that the check has bounced means you are not getting a dime and for them to deduct the ammount of the check from your account does not seem legal or correct.

This all sounds good but let's not forget, we're talking about banks. They sure as heck are not going to take the hit for a bad check. If there is no way to trace it back to the issuing bank, guess what. You get stuck. Now, you could fight it and maybe you'd win down the road after much more hassle and expense but who knows?

Personal checks are a big no-no unless you know and trust the customer, and cashiers checks aren't much better, but you could ask your bank to contact the issuing bank and verify funds. Now, I suppose, the number on the phoney check could also be answered by a phoney bank person and they'd say the check is good, surprise. But you could also ask your bank right then what happens when and if it turns out to be bad. Don't know if they all do it, but if not, I might start looking for a bank that would. But, put yourself in your bank's shoes. You don't trust the check and you are now trying to pass the risk onto your bank. If you were the bank, would you accept the risk?

Next best thing is a wire transfer. Much more hassle and I suspect not totally safe either but on big ticket items, particularly internationally, eh....so far so good.

Nothing is 100% safe. You could deal in nothing but cold, hard cash and then one day you take a counterfeit bill. You get stuck, my friend.

[Denise]

I'm surprised you guys are saying cashier's cheques are not much better than personal cheques. I would have thought they were the same things as our money orders. As soon as we purchase one, the money is taken out of our account by the bank. (Or you buy them at the post office with cash or debit.) No money, no money order. So they are very safe, though not 100% since criminals seem to be pretty smart about how they get around the law. Could you please explain more to me about how your cashier's cheques work? Thanks.

[Go2Tex]

I'm surprised you guys are saying cashier's cheques are not much better than personal cheques. I would have thought they were the same things as our money orders. As soon as we purchase one, the money is taken out of our account by the bank. (Or you buy them at the post office with cash or debit.) No money, no money order. So they are very safe, though not 100% since criminals seem to be pretty smart about how they get around the law. Could you please explain more to me about how your cashier's cheques work? Thanks.

Well, the reason I say that is from what I've heard, not experienced first hand. But, apparently they can be fraudulent as well. I don't know exactly what the difference is, other than they are harder to counterfeit and perhaps your bank might honor them when they wouldn't honor a personal check that turns out to be a fraud. I just really don't know that for certain. There might be an agreement between banks on cashier's checks but on that I just can't say for sure. I would like to know that myself and hopefully someone on the forum knows and will chime in.

[Storm]

This all sounds good but let's not forget, we're talking about banks. They sure as heck are not going to take the hit for a bad check. If there is no way to trace it back to the issuing bank, guess what. You get stuck. Now, you could fight it and maybe you'd win down the road after much more hassle and expense but who knows?

Personal checks are a big no-no unless you know and trust the customer, and cashiers checks aren't much better, but you could ask your bank to contact the issuing bank and verify funds. Now, I suppose, the number on the phoney check could also be answered by a phoney bank person and they'd say the check is good, surprise. But you could also ask your bank right then what happens when and if it turns out to be bad. Don't know if they all do it, but if not, I might start looking for a bank that would. But, put yourself in your bank's shoes. You don't trust the check and you are now trying to pass the risk onto your bank. If you were the bank, would you accept the risk?

Next best thing is a wire transfer. Much more hassle and I suspect not totally safe either but on big ticket items, particularly internationally, eh....so far so good.

Nothing is 100% safe. You could deal in nothing but cold, hard cash and then one day you take a counterfeit bill. You get stuck, my friend.

I know where you are trying to go with this but there are fake checks, funny money and credit card fraud. Some jerk just stole my debit/credit card(Wells Fargo) and ran over $400 on it in less than an hour and a half in a city over 500 miles north of my place. I got an immediate call from my bank and they cancelled the card. They had a card with my number and someone elses name on it and the correct ID to go with the name. I was reimbursed to my account for all charges made. I am truely sorry for the two businesses involved but no one should be held accountable for someone stealing their information.

We have been given bad checks in the past and they, to use the vernacular, Bounced Like A Rubber Ball! However it is not the policy of a reputable bank to punish the person recieving the bad check but the person who has issued that bad check. On what do I base this comment beside my own experience? My wife has been in banking for over 30 years.

I know this is something that bites at all of heels of those of us who do business but a bit of logic must come into play. If you have been doing business through the mail then I would say the person to contact is the US Postal Service as this may very well be considered mail fraud. Regardless of the method of payment it is so very important to make sure the instrument of transaction has cleared and the cold hard cash is in your bank account. Kind of makes you not want to do long distance business doesn't it? But sometimes cash and carry is not always possible. 

[Johanna]

With a decent printer and good paper stock, you can make any kind of check or M.O. you want. In Ohio, if I deposit a bad check in my account, the amount is deducted from my account when it fails to clear. I then have the option of going to the sherrif with the bad check and filing charges, because writing a check is a promise to pay. If the check is a fraud, they can add more charges if/when they arrest the person.

True story:

I received a $50 Canadian bill in the mail from a respectable saddlemaker one day. I'd never seen one before, but I knew it was good. I walked across the street to my bank. They had to call another branch, and they didn't know whose portrait was on the bill or how much the exchange rate was. I said to just deposit it, and left. They called me later to tell me the amount of the deposit after they sent it to their sister bank for verification. Canada is on the other side of Toledo, 2 hours from here.

Another true story:

A customer wrote us a check that bounced when he put a "hold" on the check after picking up his item. The bank told us "so sorry" but didn't do anything. Luckily, we knew where the guy lived and were able to confront him in person about the check when we saw him at a party a few weeks later. Coincidentally, he was bragging about his new saddlebags when Little Jon cut them off his bike and walked away with them. He didn't call the police- what was he going to say in court when we showed the bounced check? He didn't try to get the bags back, either. Little Jon was not a man to fight with.

Johanna