See Our For Sale Section For Used Industrial Machines

[Wizcrafts]

I frequently see posts on the Leather Sewing Machines forum from people wanting to sew leather, but not understanding what type of machine to buy. While a lot of you are looking to sew some serious heavy leather projects many are just looking to sew chaps and vests and some wallets. You folks are wasting a lot of money working your way up to an industrial walking foot machine! Some try to get by with old Singer machines, like the ones seen on eBay that are shown sewing leather. You buy one only to find out that it can only sew about 3/16" of soft leather, using #69 nylon thread and the stitch length is all over the place due to drag from the pressor foot.

What you need is called a walking foot machine. These are full size, 70+ pound industrial sewing machines, mounted on 20" x 48" x 1.75" tables on steel legs, with a large 1/2 hp clutch or servo motor mounted to the underside of the table. A V belt connects the small pulley on the motor to a large pulley on a flywheel, on the back of the machine head. The speed is controlled by a large foot plate that pivots on a steel bar running along the front of the k-legs assembly. There is also a knee lever under the table, or second foot pedal on the floor bar, to raise the pressor foot without using your hands to do so.

There are two pressor feet on a walking foot machine; a forward/backward moving narrow inner foot with a hole for the needle to go through, and a larger up/down motion outer foot that secures the material or releases it. There is usually a lower feed dog with one row of teeth, that raise and lower as it moves through slots in a throat cover plate. As the bottom feed dog moves backward the needle and inner pressor foot are timed to move with it by the same amount. While the inner foot, needle and feed dog are moving the material, the outside pressor foot is lifted off the material. Because the feed dog, needle and inner foot all move the material simultaneously, from top to bottom, the stitch length does not vary, because the layers don't drag against the top foot. Also, because of this compound feed system, multiple layers stay aligned on a walking foot machine.

In comparison, on a standard straight stitch machine all of the feeding is done by the feed dog teeth dragging the material from the bottom, while the single flat pressor foot maintains top pressure to prevent the material from lifting as the needle and thread come out of the material. If one loosens the pressor foot tension too much, to allow sticky material to feed without dragging, the material may lift as the needle begins to lift up, causing skipped stitches. The material must stay all the way down as the needle exits it, in order to form the loop that gets pulled around the bobbin case by the pickup point. Often, when sewing leather, you must apply so much top pressure, to avoid skipped stitches, that the drag of the pressor foot cause the stitches to vary in length, or causing the top layer to go out of alignment with the bottom layer of material.

Another question that is frequently asked here is: "can such and such a machine sew over 1/4" (whatever) of leather?" If the machine in question is a straight stitch - bottom feed machine and it is not specifically designed to sew thick leather, the answer is usually "No." But, if it is a modern walking foot machine, the answer becomes "Yes, up to about 3/8".

We have a For Sale section of our leatherworker.net forums, where individual members and dealers alike can offer new or used sewing machines for sale. Take a look in that section to see if anybody has a decent walking foot machine for sale anywhere near you. Also, contact the dealers who frequent this forum and ask what they have in stock that will do the best job for the projects you are wanting to sew. If you buy a machine from one of our member dealers you will get treated right. They will go over the machine to make sure it is in proper working condition and will set you up with a manual, needles, bobbins and thread. They will even assist you with problems that may arise as you are learning your way around the machine. One of the best options for a beginner to an industrial sewing machine is to get one equipped with a servo drive motor, rather than a clutch motor. Servo motors are infinitely easier to control at slow speed than clutch motors.

Considering that you are probably going to end up with a walking foot machine, why not start with one and save all the hassles awaiting you as you fight with straight stitch machines meant to sew clothing, drapes, or upholstery?

If you want to sew really heavy leather projects, like saddles, harnesses, holsters and such, look for a super heavy duty - long cylinder arm harness stitcher instead. These also show up in the for sale section from time to time as the owners upgrade to the latest and greatest machine of the year. There are usually banner ads at the top of the forums from dealers selling new harness stitchers, with most capable of sewing up to 3/4" of real leather, with #346 bonded nylon or polyester thread, using a #27 needle that is almost 2.5 inches long.

Below, are a couple of pictures of my National walking foot machine. It is capable of sewing just over 3/8" of belt leather, with up to #207 nylon thread, using a # 24 needle. It is equipped with a left toe only pressor foot set, in these photos. I have about 10 different pressor foot sets for this machine, to do various types of jobs. Parts costs are very reasonable on these types of machines.

[Chris B]

Thanks for the info Wiz!!! Very informative!!!!!!

[CowboyBob]

Wiz,

This is great info,I have gotten many calls from people that have bought machines from people on ebay & if they were packed properly & didn't get broken by the time they got to the buyer,when they get them they either find out they are not the machine for them or they are wore out & needing some parts.

Alot of times I think people are trying to save $$,they shop alittle

& mainly buy by price & many times they get what they pay for.

A sewing machine (quality ones) are built to last a long time & considering that a good looking product depends on it they shouldn't try to scrimp in buying one.

When buying also try to make sure you can get parts for it,I get many calls for machine that parts aren't available for too,even a good machine like a 45K there's 80+ different subclasses,some parts interchange but things like needle plares & other parts aren't available for most of them so you either have to get them made or call all over the country & try to find one.This is another reason to investigate b4 you invest.

Bob Kovar

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Wiz,

This is great info,I have gotten many calls from people that have bought machines from people on ebay & if they were packed properly & didn't get broken by the time they got to the buyer,when they get them they either find out they are not the machine for them or they are wore out & needing some parts.

Alot of times I think people are trying to save $$,they shop alittle

& mainly buy by price & many times they get what they pay for.

A sewing machine (quality ones) are built to last a long time & considering that a good looking product depends on it they shouldn't try to scrimp in buying one.

When buying also try to make sure you can get parts for it,I get many calls for machine that parts aren't available for too,even a good machine like a 45K there's 80+ different subclasses,some parts interchange but things like needle plares & other parts aren't available for most of them so you either have to get them made or call all over the country & try to find one.This is another reason to investigate b4 you invest.

Bob Kovar

No question, best price is not always the best value. There is usually a level of service involved when purhcasing machines.

Ebay and Craigslist buys can turn in some gems, true, but unless you know exactly what you want, the real (not advertised) condition, and the current market value and avalibilty of parts, you can all too easily get burned on a perceived good deal.

[uscglechief]

Greetings

I'm new to the leather crafting world and love it so far, I'm probably jumping the gun but would like some advice on a sewing machine. I read Wiz's extremely informative postings and do believe walking feet are what I need, mostly belts, holsters, knife sheaths etc. My question is where is a good place to look for a used sewing machine???

Thanks

Jess

[Wizcrafts]

Greetings

I'm new to the leather crafting world and love it so far, I'm probably jumping the gun but would like some advice on a sewing machine. I read Wiz's extremely informative postings and do believe walking feet are what I need, mostly belts, holsters, knife sheaths etc. My question is where is a good place to look for a used sewing machine???

Thanks

Jess

Look or ask in our Used/Refurbished Sewing Machines forum.

If you don't find anything suitable for your projects over there, consider buying a new machine from one of our esteemed dealers. All of them specialize in leather sewing machines. These are machines that are either specifically designed, or are modified to sew leather. When you say you intend to sew "mostly belts, holsters, knife sheaths etc," - you immediately rule out most of the lesser quality and medium duty machines. You are crossing over into the world of heavy leather stitchers.

To properly sew thick leather, as is found in knife sheathes and gun holsters, requires a machine with a longer needle and higher pressor foot lift than a standard walking foot machines uses. The thread used to sew these items usually ranges from #207 to #346. I think you will find that many sewers of holsters and sheathes are using #277 thread. It is almost as strong as #346, but lasts longer on the spool and goes farther in the bobbin. One can usually use a #25 leather point needle with #277 thread, as opposed to a #26 or 27 for #346 thread.

While you can sew holsters and sheathes on a big flatbed machine, it is not friendly to the leather if it is already shaped. That is where a cylinder arm machine that sews right on the end of the machine comes in handy. Shaped leather holsters, sheathes, cases and bags can hang over the empty left side, offering a nice flat surface for the stitch line. I have even resoled some shoes on a 441 clone. You don't get that on a flatbed machine.

I predict that you will end up with a 441 clone machine, with an arm length of either 9 or 16.5 inches. You don't know it yet, but that is probably where your path will lead. If you are really brave, you may end up with a needle and awl machine, like my Union Lockstitch Machine.

[Techsew Ron]

A note about machinery found on eBay: ask the seller if the machine is ready to sew or if they're simply drop shipping it.

We've been selling on eBay for about 10 years now, and more and more we see people drop shipping machines without ever opening a box. Never deal with such a seller - your machine needs setting up, fine tuning and testing before being put to work.

Find the right dealer, ask questions and don't settle on inferior quality in order to save a few bucks !

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

The small Bradbury clone I sell requires major work to every single machine and it is as simple as they come. About one in three will not work out of the box and requires replacement parts or retiming. Easy for me but near impossible for the average user.

A note about machinery found on eBay: ask the seller if the machine is ready to sew or if they're simply drop shipping it.

We've been selling on eBay for about 10 years now, and more and more we see people drop shipping machines without ever opening a box. Never deal with such a seller - your machine needs setting up, fine tuning and testing before being put to work.

Find the right dealer, ask questions and don't settle on inferior quality in order to save a few bucks !

[Sylvia]

Wiz:

What about an old sewing machine which has a walking foot attachment?? I have a 2011 Brother CP7500 home machine that has a walking foot. I was able to successfully sew through 5 layers of 5oz pliable leather with the walking foot and a denim needle. ( I also have leather needles but this was just a test) The only thing I didn't like was the machine's max stitch length was a little shorter than I would have liked.

I have an older singer too which I will probably use with a walking foot. As with most things one is only as good as the box of tools with which they work. But if I go out and buy yet another sewing machine I think the spouse will disown me. LOL!!

[Wizcrafts]

Wiz:

What about an old sewing machine which has a walking foot attachment?? I have a 2011 Brother CP7500 home machine that has a walking foot. I was able to successfully sew through 5 layers of 5oz pliable leather with the walking foot and a denim needle. ( I also have leather needles but this was just a test) The only thing I didn't like was the machine's max stitch length was a little shorter than I would have liked.

I have an older singer too which I will probably use with a walking foot. As with most things one is only as good as the box of tools with which they work. But if I go out and buy yet another sewing machine I think the spouse will disown me. LOL!!

That is not a walking foot machine. It is a souped up electronic home machine with an even feed attachment. They are horses of a different color.

Your home machines can sew about 1/4 to 5/16" of soft leather, with no larger than #69 bonded nylon thread. The largest needle you can find to fit is will either be a number 18, 19, or 20. It will not properly handle any thread thicker than #69.

An industrial walking foot machine can easily sew through 3/8 inch of hard leather, using #138 thread and a #23 leather point needle. Go up to a #25 needle and you can sew with number 207 thread. Industrial walking foot machines are usually triple feed, where the feed dog, inside foot and needle all move in sync. Maximum stitch length is usually 4 to the inch; sometimes bigger. Finally, industrial walking foot machines weigh about 70 pounds and sit on top of a cutout rectangle, with an oil drip pan, in a heavy duty 1.75" thick table, which is bolted onto to a steel frame. There is a very powerful motor under the table, which drives the pulley on the back of the machine head, via a long v-belt. Typically, these motors are rated at about 1/2 horsepower. Most leather workers now use electronic Servo motors, for better control at slow speeds. In contrast, the motor on your souped up home machines will range from 1/10th to 1/15th horsepower.

If you persist in sewing 5 layers of leather with your home machine it will have a very short rest of its life.The motor will probably be the first item to go.

Edited December 3, 2011 by Wizcrafts

[Sylvia]

That is not a walking foot machine. It is a souped up electronic home machine with an even feed attachment. They are horses of a different color.

Your home machines can sew about 1/4 to 5/16" of soft leather, with no larger than #69 bonded nylon thread. The largest needle you can find to fit is will either be a number 18, 19, or 20. It will not properly handle any thread thicker than #69.

An industrial walking foot machine can easily sew through 3/8 inch of hard leather, using #138 thread and a #23 leather point needle. Go up to a #25 needle and you can sew with number 207 thread. Industrial walking foot machines are usually triple feed, where the feed dog, inside foot and needle all move in sync. Maximum stitch length is usually 4 to the inch; sometimes bigger. Finally, industrial walking foot machines weigh about 70 pounds and sit on top of a cutout rectangle, with an oil drip pan, in a heavy duty 1.75" thick table, which is bolted onto to a steel frame. There is a very powerful motor under the table, which drives the pulley on the back of the machine head. Typically, these motors are rated at about 1/2 horsepower. The motor on your souped up home machines will range from 1/10th to 1/15th horsepower.

If you persist in sewing 5 layers of leather with your home machine it will have a very short rest of its life.

I guess I should probably say that I used to work in a production shop with commercial machines. I know the machines you are speaking of quite well. I don't think I'll do much sewing with my Brother. I just don't like the stitch length... even if I don't plan on doing much leather sewing on a machine. My old singer can do that until it croaks and I wouldn't care. Thank you for your insights. Very good information.