Singer 31-20`

[bikermutt07]

Just in the investigating phase for now. Most of the used listings don't list model numbers though. If I bring anything else home anytime soon my wife may flip.

[TinkerTailor]

21 hours ago, Art said:

When originally produced, these machines were designed for tailors.  They are not a heavy duty, or even a medium duty leather machine.  They are primarily used today to decorate boot tops.  That means they sew a 3-4 oz and sometimes a little more veg tan to a 3-4 oz calf liner.  They sew 33 to 46 thread really well and occasionally 69.  They are the heavy duty version of the standard sewing machine.  This machine would work for bags and wallets given that you keep things on the light side.  There is no reverse, you just have to do it "old school".  These puppies can run the gamut from tight like new to having clearances you can measure by sound.  For close-in and delicate leatherwork, a roller foot is a plus.  The modern day equivalent would be something like the Juki 5550.

Art 

Part of a 1939 photo documentary of a texas boot factory:

Edited October 20, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[TinkerTailor]

10 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

Just in the investigating phase for now. Most of the used listings don't list model numbers though. If I bring anything else home anytime soon my wife may flip.

Part of the trick is finding the poorly listed machines. If it has the model and date on the listing, the person looked it up and knows. They likely will have priced it based on what they found online, ebay pricing that nobody actually paid......With old singers, getting the good deal frequently involves identifying industrial machines in pictures. Some of the industrials look like the size of domestics and can be mistaken. Also, any black singer is a leather machine and an industrial it seems. Don't fall for this one.... Tip: search for "grandpa sewing" "grandfather singer" and such. Grandkids sell off stuff they know nothing about after they inherit it. Frequently they will only list it as a "sewing machine", and post a picture. You don't want gramma Betty's quilting machine, you want grandpa Franks horse stuff sewin machine....

[bikermutt07]

Thanks , Tink.

[bikermutt07]

9 hours ago, TinkerTailor said:

Part of the trick is finding the poorly listed machines. If it has the model and date on the listing, the person looked it up and knows. They likely will have priced it based on what they found online, ebay pricing that nobody actually paid......With old singers, getting the good deal frequently involves identifying industrial machines in pictures. Some of the industrials look like the size of domestics and can be mistaken. Also, any black singer is a leather machine and an industrial it seems. Don't fall for this one.... Tip: search for "grandpa sewing" "grandfather singer" and such. Grandkids sell off stuff they know nothing about after they inherit it. Frequently they will only list it as a "sewing machine", and post a picture. You don't want gramma Betty's quilting machine, you want grandpa Franks horse stuff sewin machine....

Please clarify the part about black singers??? Are black singers all industrial / leather machines?

[mikesc]

No , they are not..Singer made millions of domestic machines in black, but the people selling any black singer ( domestic models included ) invariably describe them as "industrial" , or "industrial strength", or "for sewing leather"..most of those people are quite simply lying about the machine that they are selling..true industrial models are bigger, waaaay more solid, and amongst the true industrial ones ( most of which were designed to sew textiles) those that were designed to sew leather are specialised ..machines designed to sew leather can usually sew heavy textiles very well, not all machines designed to sew heavy textiles can sew even light weight leather well.

[TinkerTailor]

What he said  ^^^^^

[cdthayer]

22 hours ago, TinkerTailor said:

Part of a 1939 photo documentary of a texas boot factory:

Interesting old photos.  Thanks for showing them.  Any idea what models of machines those are?  One looks like a Wheeler and Wilson, and the other one is a Singer, but what model?

CD in Oklahoma

[TinkerTailor]

1 hour ago, cdthayer said:

Interesting old photos.  Thanks for showing them.  Any idea what models of machines those are?  One looks like a Wheeler and Wilson, and the other one is a Singer, but what model?

CD in Oklahoma

I am pretty sure it is the same machine at different angles and my guess would be a 31k17 or a 31k18 because they are the roller foot leather classed 31k machines. The 31k18 is a roller fed machine and the 17 is a drop feed. Can't see the feed dogs in the pic.The only info in the captions is it is a 31k.

[cdthayer]

9 hours ago, TinkerTailor said:

The only info in the captions is it is a 31k.

Interesting.  A Singer 31K with an inlay medallion in the bed.

CD in Oklahoma

 

[MADMAX22]

10 hours ago, TinkerTailor said:

I am pretty sure it is the same machine at different angles and my guess would be a 31k17 or a 31k18 because they are the roller foot leather classed 31k machines. The 31k18 is a roller fed machine and the 17 is a drop feed. Can't see the feed dogs in the pic.The only info in the captions is it is a 31k.

Looking at the ISMACs it looks more like the 31-28 or one of the 31-28 thru 31-30s. The 31-28 was for boot tops and such and had the tensioner in the proper position. 

[Darren Brosowski]

On 21/10/2016 at 0:33 AM, TinkerTailor said:

Part of a 1939 photo documentary of a texas boot factory:

That machine looks like a Singer 9 which is the Weeler and Wilson 9 that Singer kept building after they bought the company. It was popular because it was a rotary shuttle when Singer built oscillating shuttle machines up until the introduction of the 101/201 class. There was a rotary shuttle 15 class but they are as rare as rocking horse poop.

[Darren Brosowski]

On 22/10/2016 at 0:21 AM, TinkerTailor said:

I am pretty sure it is the same machine at different angles and my guess would be a 31k17 or a 31k18 because they are the roller foot leather classed 31k machines. The 31k18 is a roller fed machine and the 17 is a drop feed. Can't see the feed dogs in the pic.The only info in the captions is it is a 31k.

Not a 31k as the tension is on the face plate and not the front. Body shape is totally wrong for a 31 class.

[cdthayer]

4 hours ago, Darren Brosowski said:

looks like a Singer 9 which is the Weeler and Wilson 9 that Singer kept building after they bought the company

The face plates look kind of like a W&W D-9 and a Singer 9W, but did they have those models with knee-lift presser bar linkage on the back of the arm?

Also, it looks like only one of the machines has decal decorations on the inside of the pillar.  I don’t see any trace of decals on the other machine pillar.

4 hours ago, Darren Brosowski said:

There was a rotary shuttle 15 class but they are as rare as rocking horse poop.

Are you referring to the Singer 115?

CD in Oklahoma

 

[TinkerTailor]

3 minutes ago, cdthayer said:

The face plates look kind of like a W&W D-9 and a Singer 9W, but did they have those models with knee-lift presser bar linkage on the back of the arm?

Also, it looks like only one of the machines has decal decorations on the inside of the pillar.  I don’t see any trace of decals on the other machine pillar.

Are you referring to the Singer 115?

CD in Oklahoma

 

I think you may have figured it out. Thanks, that is awesome.

[machinehead]

The machine is probably a Wheeler & Wilson D-12 or possibly a D-15.

The Singer machine is probably a 12W class.

Edited October 25, 2016 by machinehead
Additional info

[cdthayer]

3 hours ago, TinkerTailor said:

I think you may have figured it out.

I have seen two Singer 115 machines in my area, one that I have in operating condition with a hand crank, and a rusty one that I’ve been soaking with oil since October 2014 hoping to get it going again.  (Not that it takes that long to get it freed up, it’s just one of those projects that got put way on the back burner and buried out of site.  I’ll get back on it one of these days.)

I have never fell into “like” with my 115.  I don’t know why, but I don’t care much for any of the 15s for some reason.  Just a “thing” with me I think.  I’m trying to get over that with my like for my 16 that I just got.  While I don’t use my 115, it’s interesting to me because it has parts of two different decal sets on it (Paperclip decals on arm and bed, knots and rectangles on the border.)  It’s obviously a rebuilt machine, but I’m curious about who did the rebuild, and amused at the decals.

CD in Oklahoma

 

[cdthayer]

2 hours ago, machinehead said:

The machine is probably a Wheeler & Wilson D-12 or possibly a D-15.

The Singer machine is probably a 12W class.

Thanks machinehead.  I think that you’re right.  I haven’t ever run into those models before.

I think Singer “cut a fat hog” when they bought W&W.  Singer got a bunch of great heavy old iron with the W&W designs.

CD in Oklahoma

 

[bikermutt07]

Can you identify this machine by these pics? And capabilities?

This machine is listed locally for 200.00

Thanks.

[MADMAX22]

Looks like a 15 and way to pricey IMHO.

Edited October 25, 2016 by MADMAX22

[TinkerTailor]

Pretty sure its a 201. http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/singer-class-201-sewing-machines.html

It will sew blouses skirts and quilts real good.

Edit: if it is a 15, here is a writeup by Wizcrafts.:  http://www.wizcrafts.net/crafts/singer15-91.html

Edited October 25, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[MADMAX22]

Your probably right Tinker, I am not very good at the domestics. Heck it took me a hour or so to finally figure out what my Singer 101 was.

This is a decent blog on identifying a few domestic groups.

http://vssmb.blogspot.com/2011/07/visual-guide-to-identifying-singers_30.html

 

[machinehead]

37 minutes ago, MADMAX22 said:

Looks like a 15 and way to pricey IMHO.

What Max said.

[bikermutt07]

And y'all are awesome.

[Darren Brosowski]

7 hours ago, TinkerTailor said:

Pretty sure its a 201. http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/singer-class-201-sewing-machines.html

It will sew blouses skirts and quilts real good.

Edit: if it is a 15, here is a writeup by Wizcrafts.:  http://www.wizcrafts.net/crafts/singer15-91.html

It is most definitely a Singer 15 class as the tension and take up are on the faceplate. The 201 also has a different slide plate.