Lousy Service

[Frank]

I'm not sure if I should jump in on this or not but here goes. I've ordered from a lot of different companies over the years, some with excellent service and some with less than stellar.

If you take a look at my single post on here when I complain about service, the name of the company was never mentioned. I did this for a couple of reasons. There is a great possibility that many people on here are friends with the person I bought stuff from. If I mention names then I make enemies in both directions.

Now it could be that this company has a great track record and somehow I slipped through the cracks. It's definitely a possibility. If someone wants to talk about it personally then it's between them and I who I relay this information to, not a whole forum. FYI, it wasn't Siegel!! It causes distress and a lot of grief for all parties involved and sheds unwanted light on an already bad situation.

Now with this forum being dedicated to leatherworkers, you are going to hear bad things about companies a lot quicker than any other place since we are a small tight knit group. Could it be that the 5,6,7,8,9,10 or whatever people who complained about the service are part of the .0001% who have had issues compared to all of the other thousands of satisfied customers? ABSOLUTELY!!

Chalk it up as a bad experience and either keep trying or go to another supplier. Someone sooner or later will make you happy with their service unless you are the .0001% of the population that can never be made happy. Believe me, I have dealt with a few.

I think it's really time to move on before anything else bad comes out of this topic.

Frank

[Art]

I have been dealing with Siegel for years. They have made a couple of mistakes, one botched tool order, and a skin damaged in packing (hard crease). These were both rectified to my 200% satisfaction, with just a phone call, two perfect skins came in the next order (and I got to keep the one that was bad, and to eliminate any confusion the tools were shipped direct from CSO).

I have made a lot of holsters and belts from those "crust" double shoulders Steve mentioned, so don't let the term "crust" make you think they are crap; they cut well, dye well, machine stitch well, and finish looking great.

I have not ordered from Steve in over a year because of his shipping policy. In the past, shipping was free if you kept your order above $75, it did not matter of it was on sale or from regular stock. I tend to mix orders, some things from the regular inventory, and some things on the sale lists (weekly specials, year-end, whatever), so when I read the special shipping instructions, they lost a customer. But I watch the specials, and when I see the old shipping policy, I'll order again, because they are a good and honest company.

Art

[StevenSiegel]

I have been dealing with Siegel for years. They have made a couple of mistakes, one botched tool order, and a skin damaged in packing (hard crease). These were both rectified to my 200% satisfaction, with just a phone call, two perfect skins came in the next order (and I got to keep the one that was bad, and to eliminate any confusion the tools were shipped direct from CSO).

I have made a lot of holsters and belts from those "crust" double shoulders Steve mentioned, so don't let the term "crust" make you think they are crap; they cut well, dye well, machine stitch well, and finish looking great.

I have not ordered from Steve in over a year because of his shipping policy. In the past, shipping was free if you kept your order above $75, it did not matter of it was on sale or from regular stock. I tend to mix orders, some things from the regular inventory, and some things on the sale lists (weekly specials, year-end, whatever), so when I read the special shipping instructions, they lost a customer. But I watch the specials, and when I see the old shipping policy, I'll order again, because they are a good and honest company.

Art

Hi Art,

This is Steve Siegel.

Thank you for the kind words.

Our shipping policy has not changed. We still guarantee our leather with FREE RETURN FREIGHT.

Any order shipped in USA (continental) which is over $75 is shipped FREE with occassional exceptions which we have had for many years. The two exceptions are:

1) From time to time we will offer merchandise on sale where freight is not included for that particluar item.

2) Every year we have our end of year special where we drop our prices substantially on many items, but we have different terms for THESE SALE ITEMS ONLY

A ) In order to purchase any items from End of Year Sale, the total order (which can be a mixture of any of our items) must be $150.

B ) There is a freight charge for the End of Year Sale items

The sale with the terms can be viewed at: http://www.siegelofc...910/121410c.htm Please feel free to contact me should there be any question at siegel.leather@gmail.com or 800.862.8956

[GAP]

Let me join in the bunch of highly satisfied customers of Siegal Leather!

I'm just a small time artisian who makes a few highly customized goods on a part time basis. Siegals Leather, has always been more than happy to assist me in whatever way they can.

I've appreciated doing business with them, and will continue!

[King's X]

"This is Steven Siegel. I do not hide behind another identity."

Neither do I, but this is a forum where you are listed by an advatar title. This forum is well aware of who I am and obiviously you were able to find me! Whether the Admin provided my information or you received it elsewhere. So, sir, who is hiding? Now, I joined this forum as a way to "learn" and "share" with others "openly" about our craft. Your company is not the only vendor that has had the displeasure of not meeting up to the expectations of our forum members. This is nothing new, but we as members have this avenue to share our thoughts and experiences. Ultimately, it will be the responsibility of each buyer to beware. I have had much better success with some of your competitors where other members have had the opposite experience. But things happen!

"When I am wrong I am man enough to admit it and rectify the situation. Maybe that is why you feel this is a one man shop as I have been very busy correcting errors and taking personal responsibility."

Obiviously, this statement is correct by the emails that I have received explaining the issues that have plagued your company and I applaud you for the notifications. I said that it "seems" or would appear that you were a one-man operation since you are front man, but we all know this is not the case. I would think (and I am not telling you how to run your business) that listening and making the necessary plans in motion to correct issues is what needs to be done. Not going after your current or previous customers for imparting their experiences with others. But this is your decision to make and you have made it.

"So let me correct your "order information" from my end!"

I find this statement Interesting in that you are commenting from your end. Or is it really from your "order" records. I am responding from personal & direct involvement to include notes on my receipts.

"You purchase on 5/2/09 for $145.00 of Ellis Barnes Basic Tool Set (Was this in the past year or so??) The value of this item was approximately $400. It was sold at a loss to introduce leatherworkers to GOOD STAMPING TOOLS. This was Ellis's idea. You returned the entire set AT OUR EXPENSE and we replaced it. There was nothing wrong with the product, THIS IS BAD SERVICE?"

I did purchase this tools that you stated "just arrived!" When I received my tools, ALL not one or two, but all were rusted on the shaft and face! Not fully, but definately 'red' in color. Yes, I returned them and a new set arrived with slight signs of rust, but after few calls to others, I cleaned them and decided not to return them. Yes, they were a good deal! Bad service? I measure my experience by the OVERALL experience not by one part of the process.

"On 5/26/09 you won a contest from us and you were given 25 dollars credit. I guess this is just part of BAD SERVICE"

Oh, we will not even touch this one right now!

"On 5/24/10 you purchased 2 sides of drum dyed louis vuitton leather at less than 1/2 of what this Billion dollar corporation pays for the SAME leather. You did not know how to use the leather because of your skill set. You returned the leather at OUR EXENSE. Is this bad service because you do not have the skill set to use better leather?"

I love this one! Louis Vuitton leather, hummmm, it was touted to me by one of your workers as chestnut colored veg-tan!! I specifically told your lady that took my order what my intended use was and I was told this "veg-tan" would work out well. Prior to ending my call, I asked your employee if this leather will carve well since all I had was the photograph in your Friday Special and I was told yes. When I received it, it was not initially used so it sat in the corner waiting its turn. After all, why did I need to check it out; all of my questions were answered on the phone by your employee! When I did open it, I realized what was sent to me. When I informed your company, I was told that I was only able to get a substitute credit. So I returned your "Louis Vuitton" leather and received a credit back later, which leads me to the next purchase below.

"On 6/29/10 you purchased a few natural double shoulders. You kept this. I guess you know how to work with natural colored leather which is basically 'crust'."

This purchase was something that your employee offered to me after my original request for another set of leather could not be filled or sold out. I guess this has been my luck. Because I was not able to physically select my leather in person, I have no choice but to go off seller's recommendations for my needs, as basic as they are even at my crafting level! After all, this is a hobby for me and I have never claimed to be a professional. Imagine what reply that would have solicited. The multiple phone calls and conversations with your employee to include one with an older gentlemen, I assumed was you, to complete this order and end the suffering of the previous one was not worth going through again. No matter how cheap the "crust"is!

Again, as I stated in my original post, for me I do not have the time to hand hold the processing of my transactions.

"Have you ever heard of Diogenes???"

I am a man of basic knowledge plus I am not of Greek decent, so I would not expect to know about Diogenes.

"You won't find a company in this industry that is more straight than the one that you just slandered."

Mr. Seigel ~ I am sure to many of your loyal customers believe you are, I do not doubt this statement up to the point that you label me a slander. As you read my responses, you will see that my facts are not malicious nor false in claim. Especially, when these orders were initiated, processed and concluded between me and several of your employees, of course, except for you. Interesting huh?

Now, the post patrol may stop this posting, but since I was basically asked out, I should have the ability to have my reply posted! Either way, this will end here. Mr. Siegel, you can remove me from your emails and delete my account information. This is still my decision right?

[Ferg]

"This is Steven Siegel. I do not hide behind another identity."

Neither do I, but this is a forum where you are listed by an advatar title. This forum is well aware of who I am and obiviously you were able to find me! Whether the Admin provided my information or you received it elsewhere. So, sir, who is hiding? Now, I joined this forum as a way to "learn" and "share" with others "openly" about our craft. Your company is not the only vendor that has had the displeasure of not meeting up to the expectations of our forum members. This is nothing new, but we as members have this avenue to share our thoughts and experiences. Ultimately, it will be the responsibility of each buyer to beware. I have had much better success with some of your competitors where other members have had the opposite experience. But things happen!

"When I am wrong I am man enough to admit it and rectify the situation. Maybe that is why you feel this is a one man shop as I have been very busy correcting errors and taking personal responsibility."

Obiviously, this statement is correct by the emails that I have received explaining the issues that have plagued your company and I applaud you for the notifications. I said that it "seems" or would appear that you were a one-man operation since you are front man, but we all know this is not the case. I would think (and I am not telling you how to run your business) that listening and making the necessary plans in motion to correct issues is what needs to be done. Not going after your current or previous customers for imparting their experiences with others. But this is your decision to make and you have made it.

"So let me correct your "order information" from my end!"

I find this statement Interesting in that you are commenting from your end. Or is it really from your "order" records. I am responding from personal & direct involvement to include notes on my receipts.

"You purchase on 5/2/09 for $145.00 of Ellis Barnes Basic Tool Set (Was this in the past year or so??) The value of this item was approximately $400. It was sold at a loss to introduce leatherworkers to GOOD STAMPING TOOLS. This was Ellis's idea. You returned the entire set AT OUR EXPENSE and we replaced it. There was nothing wrong with the product, THIS IS BAD SERVICE?"

I did purchase this tools that you stated "just arrived!" When I received my tools, ALL not one or two, but all were rusted on the shaft and face! Not fully, but definately 'red' in color. Yes, I returned them and a new set arrived with slight signs of rust, but after few calls to others, I cleaned them and decided not to return them. Yes, they were a good deal! Bad service? I measure my experience by the OVERALL experience not by one part of the process.

"On 5/26/09 you won a contest from us and you were given 25 dollars credit. I guess this is just part of BAD SERVICE"

Oh, we will not even touch this one right now!

"On 5/24/10 you purchased 2 sides of drum dyed louis vuitton leather at less than 1/2 of what this Billion dollar corporation pays for the SAME leather. You did not know how to use the leather because of your skill set. You returned the leather at OUR EXENSE. Is this bad service because you do not have the skill set to use better leather?"

I love this one! Louis Vuitton leather, hummmm, it was touted to me by one of your workers as chestnut colored veg-tan!! I specifically told your lady that took my order what my intended use was and I was told this "veg-tan" would work out well. Prior to ending my call, I asked your employee if this leather will carve well since all I had was the photograph in your Friday Special and I was told yes. When I received it, it was not initially used so it sat in the corner waiting its turn. After all, why did I need to check it out; all of my questions were answered on the phone by your employee! When I did open it, I realized what was sent to me. When I informed your company, I was told that I was only able to get a substitute credit. So I returned your "Louis Vuitton" leather and received a credit back later, which leads me to the next purchase below.

"On 6/29/10 you purchased a few natural double shoulders. You kept this. I guess you know how to work with natural colored leather which is basically 'crust'."

This purchase was something that your employee offered to me after my original request for another set of leather could not be filled or sold out. I guess this has been my luck. Because I was not able to physically select my leather in person, I have no choice but to go off seller's recommendations for my needs, as basic as they are even at my crafting level! After all, this is a hobby for me and I have never claimed to be a professional. Imagine what reply that would have solicited. The multiple phone calls and conversations with your employee to include one with an older gentlemen, I assumed was you, to complete this order and end the suffering of the previous one was not worth going through again. No matter how cheap the "crust"is!

Again, as I stated in my original post, for me I do not have the time to hand hold the processing of my transactions.

"Have you ever heard of Diogenes???"

I am a man of basic knowledge plus I am not of Greek decent, so I would not expect to know about Diogenes.

"You won't find a company in this industry that is more straight than the one that you just slandered."

Mr. Seigel ~ I am sure to many of your loyal customers believe you are, I do not doubt this statement up to the point that you label me a slander. As you read my responses, you will see that my facts are not malicious nor false in claim. Especially, when these orders were initiated, processed and concluded between me and several of your employees, of course, except for you. Interesting huh?

Now, the post patrol may stop this posting, but since I was basically asked out, I should have the ability to have my reply posted! Either way, this will end here. Mr. Siegel, you can remove me from your emails and delete my account information. This is still my decision right?

I agree with all you said, Kings X.

Now my turn, this will be my last post on this also. By the way Mr Siegle, you can remove all connection on your site with me, thank you. Although I doubt if you can find it.

Steven,

Ever since the first day I tried to order something from your company it was a hassle.

You like to "Talk Big", spouting your superior intelligence and station in life. Some folks like doing business with you and that is fine I have no quarrel with anyone but you.

I don't like your manner Steven! Thank the Lord, there are many other suppliers to deal with.

That's it folks. I love this forum. I am sorry Johanna and Kate. This is simply the way at least two of us feel.

ferg

[wildrose]

I for one am grateful to hear all sides of a story. There are many suppliers, in fact probably ALL suppliers, who have had customers have negative experiences. Does that mean everyone should not order from them? NO. It is simply some consumers stating their problems with the company and the company having the opportunity to respond.

I shop Tandy almost exclusively. For me, it suits my needs and my budget. I've surely had some trouble with different locations over the years, but I still shop there. You, the consumer, have the choice where to go.

Let's leave it at that.

[Billy P]

I know very little about Steven Siegal or his company, so no comment about that. However, a couple of years ago I ordered a Craftsman Oak double shoulder from a Tandy store, not in my state. It was susposed to be 3/4 oz., when it came and I opened it it had hole all over it. I clled them back and they told me they would send me another one and a return shipping label. When the ups man brought it I had him wait a second and repackaged the first one, applied the label and he left with it. I had explained to them that this is a hobby and I didn't have much money, thus the reason for buying the Craftsman leather/cheapest to begin with. When I opened up the piece they sent and got my paper work they had sent 4/5 oz. Live Oak, the most expensive leather they were selling and abill for $40+ more money. Good leather, but thicker than I needed and a heck of a lot more than I wanted to spend. I don't think I've ordered from that store since then. While I appreciate what they did, they could have called and asked me first, before having me spend the extra money. Just a thought about the way things happens sometimes. Billy P

[wildrose]

See there, Billy proves my point! I think all of us have had bad experiences (and sometimes more than one) with a supplier. I don't have an issue with venting about it, stating facts and if it was resolved. It's when it degenerates into name calling that it's a problem.

[roo4u]

well for my comments...i wasnt mean and i didnt lie so i will stand behind what i said. i agree there was no need for name calling and meanness. i received an email from steve and have replied to him. i understand they had a difficult year but this can not be the excuse for every single complaint.. will i order from them again? perhaps if i need and they have. i do not hold a grudge and will usually give a second chance. mr siegel seems genuinely interested in rectifying these issues and i hope they can get back on track.