New To Butterfly Head/universal Head Patcher Machines

[suem]

I just got a 29k 72 patcher. From what I'm reading here I guess I paid a little high for it but I'm happy with it. The long bed 72 model seems a little tough to find plus is a 1950's model made in clydebank scotland and the historical value adds a bit of value to me. I only wish I'd gotten one of those nice original tables but mine came with a standard modern table with a clutch motor (which is going to be fun I guess since I'm used to the other type which are easier to handle/control).

I've never owned anything with a butterfly head before, I never even knew a machine existed with a head that could turn 360 degrees. I always wondered how they sewed zippers into boots, guess this is it.

Yes, I'd like more footlift but I've got a 1" footlift ludwig/aka seiko standard depth cylinder bed for heavier stuff. This attracted me for fixing boot zippers and also the ability to sew in circles for patches etc. in jacket arms and I can see a hundred other applications too. Probably will be dealing a lot with motorcycle bags, seats, the occasional jacket repair. Would do chaps on my other machine most likely.

My question regards the butterfly head. It moves smoothly most of the way around, it gets a little "stiff" in two spots. i've put a little oil in the head thinking it was a bit dry, which helped, but I'm wondering if something may be bent or worn inside...don't want to push it and break something.

Should this head move easily and smoothly the whole 360 degrees or should I expect a bit of resistance in some spots?

thanks for responding.

[Wizcrafts]

I just got a 29k 72 patcher.

SNIP

My question regards the butterfly head. It moves smoothly most of the way around, it gets a little "stiff" in two spots. i've put a little oil in the head thinking it was a bit dry, which helped, but I'm wondering if something may be bent or worn inside...don't want to push it and break something.

Should this head move easily and smoothly the whole 360 degrees or should I expect a bit of resistance in some spots?

thanks for responding.

There is a little leaf spring, shaped something like an inverted letter T - inside the lower section of the needlebar. It is needed to hold back the top thread a bit as the take-up lever does its thing. Sometimes, the spring gets bent and makes contact with the side walls. Eventually, the spring will get pulled out of its channel. It will bend out of shape and cause the butterfly action to have hard spots. The spring is replaceable, along with the two tiny screws that secure it. The entire needlebar must be removed to replace the thread spring.

If this spring is bent, broken, or missing, the top thread will form loops on top, in random places on the material being sewn. I just went through this and replaced the spring on the bottom of the needlebar, on my Singer 29K172. It is still not exactly right and I still get the odd thread loop on top of the leather. The old spring prevented the loops, but it bent under a heavy sewing load and broke off a few weeks ago.

[cdthayer]

I just got a 29k 72 patcher.

My question regards the butterfly head. It moves smoothly most of the way around, it gets a little "stiff" in two spots.

Hi suem,

I have a Singer 29K70 that had two "stiff spots" in the 360 degree rotation of the upper feed. It would rotate the full circle, but had those two spots that aggravated the heck out of me. It's something that you could check on yours.

I probably don't have the proper terminology for things, but the press pin in the top of the cylinder sticks out on both ends, and rotates closely to the lower hex nut on the feed adjustment shaft directly behind the cylinder from the operator. The jam nut was turned with the widest point sticking out in the path where the pin rotates around, and the pin on mine was rubbing against the nut shoulder. I simply adjusted the jam nuts very slightly so that the lower one had the flat portion of the nut facing the pin path.

CD in Oklahoma

thayerrags.com

[suem]

There is a little leaf spring, shaped something like an inverted letter T - inside the lower section of the needlebar. It is needed to hold back the top thread a bit as the take-up lever does its thing. Sometimes, the spring gets bent and makes contact with the side walls. Eventually, the spring will get pulled out of its channel. It will bend out of shape and cause the butterfly action to have hard spots. The spring is replaceable, along with the two tiny screws that secure it. The entire needlebar must be removed to replace the thread spring.

If this spring is bent, broken, or missing, the top thread will form loops on top, in random places on the material being sewn. I just went through this and replaced the spring on the bottom of the needlebar, on my Singer 29K172. It is still not exactly right and I still get the odd thread loop on top of the leather. The old spring prevented the loops, but it bent under a heavy sewing load and broke off a few weeks ago.

I haven't had a chance to test out the machine yet (need somebody to help me bolt it down because this thing is weird in that the screws come up from below and screw to the bottom of the machine) hopefully a friend is coming by today to help me get the machine head properly installed on the table. I have seen that leaf spring for sale, probably need to pick a few up, removing the needle bar sounds like a bit of an operation.

I have a very competent industrial tech just blocks away but he wants seventy bucks just to look at it (not that he doesn't deserve that because he does) and that isn't in the budget at the moment.

[suem]

Hi suem,

I have a Singer 29K70 that had two "stiff spots" in the 360 degree rotation of the upper feed. It would rotate the full circle, but had those two spots that aggravated the heck out of me. It's something that you could check on yours.

I probably don't have the proper terminology for things, but the press pin in the top of the cylinder sticks out on both ends, and rotates closely to the lower hex nut on the feed adjustment shaft directly behind the cylinder from the operator. The jam nut was turned with the widest point sticking out in the path where the pin rotates around, and the pin on mine was rubbing against the nut shoulder. I simply adjusted the jam nuts very slightly so that the lower one had the flat portion of the nut facing the pin path.

CD in Oklahoma

thayerrags.com

Ok thanks. Some of that made sense (i'm a computer hardware geek and I dabble in mechanical stuff..wish I'd paid more attention when dad tried to teach me mechanics when I was a spud)...so in essence you're saying that the nut(s) can be sticking out too far or turned the wrong way and rubbing on something.

It's improved a touch since I oiled it last night. Most of the way it's smooth as silk, just two places it feels like it's binding a tad and it's not a hard grabby binding like you'd expect with a bad spring, it does feel like a rubbing binding which might explain why it got a little better with some slippery stuff.

Funny, the owner said they just had it serviced and I'd expect a good tech to check such things and adjust or repair as necessary. Of course they also told me the front tensioner was there when they put it in the trailer to bring it to me and I go back and look at the ebay pictures and it wasn't there; that's what I get for insufficient research but I really don't feel taken the parts are fairly easy to get with only a few minor exceptions it's a very pretty machine full of history.

So....hex nuts....I need a tiny box wrench, assuming english size or was britain on hex in the 1950's????? Is it the typical righty tighty or is a a f*ck nut that is a reverse thread.

I just took a close look at that, it looks like there is a tiny but adequate amount of clearance there so we are most likely back to the spring issue. I wouldn't mind learning how to pull that needle bar and fix it myself but if there are fine readjustments to make it all "go" again that's really a lot more time than I have at the moment, I want to use it that would just frustrate me, LOL. I have another machine sitting on the floor that the screw on the needle bar loosened and it moved out of position, the place told me how to fix it I just haven't gotten to it because I have other machines, don't need it.

If I pull the needle bar to replace this spring is it a PITA to get out, reinstall and are there adjustments or is it just a pull it out and put it back thing? Any good diagrams? I saw a book on ebay supposedly written by a tech, not old hat revisited, ten bucks download...probably worth it if it's illustrated etc. What tools will I need if I decide to try this.......

Sue.

Thanks for the response.

Edited November 22, 2010 by suem

[suem]

Lubrication question

On the right side of the machine, near the balance wheel, and on the back of the machine there is a panel that is opened for lubrication. I was wondering what grease should be used on what I'm assuming is the main drive shaft because it's so close to the pullys for the belt. They appear to have used some sort of thick black grease there. I was always under the idea that you stuck with heavy silicone grease that black grease wasn't good because it can dry out and cake (I had that happen to one of my older kenmores, the grease thickened up to the point the machine wouldn't run). So what sort of heavy lubricant should I use on that drive gear??? Thanks.

[Wizcrafts]

I wouldn't mind learning how to pull that needle bar and fix it myself but if there are fine readjustments to make it all "go" again that's really a lot more time than I have at the moment ...

If I pull the needle bar to replace this spring is it a PITA to get out, reinstall and are there adjustments or is it just a pull it out and put it back thing? What tools will I need if I decide to try this.......

Sue.

Thanks for the response.

Sue;

First of all, you should examine the spring on the needlebar to see if it warped. Lower the needlebar all the way down. Aim a flashlight, or clamp light onto the left side of the lowered needlebar and look at the left side of the bar, just above the mounting bracket for the needle. The spring is visible at that point. The thin shaft rides inside a 1/6" wide channel and the bottom looks like a paddle and rests in a cutout. If it is warped the paddle part will not sit squarely across the cutout, but will be twisted. Ditto for its thin strut that connects to the top of the spring, where it is screwed onto the needlebar, with two little screws. A warped spring catches inside the hole as you turn the butterfly and will break off the paddle section.

Here is what you will need to pull the needlebar, to replace a warped or broken thread control spring:

1. A 9/16" open end wrench, only if your patcher has a tall hex shaped darning assembly sticking up, with a rotating T bar on top. It will need to be unscrewed before the needle lifter pin can be driven out.
2. a set of drift pin punches, with small, medium and large faces
3. a hammer
4. a medium width flat blade screwdriver
5. a small, narrow blade screwdriver, with a decent handle. Or, a medium jewelers screwdriver and possibly pliers to turn it.

The needlebar assembly is in two pieces. The needle is mounted onto a little piece of metal that is screwed onto the needlebar. That screw is above the needle securing screw. Here is the sequence to remove the needlebar:

1. Unscrew the needle holder from the needlebar
2. If your machine has the T bar darning attachment, behind the needlebar, on top, remove it with a 9/16" wrench
3. Use a drift punch to drive out the tapered pin that holds the needlebar to the take-up lever puck. Drive from the back towards you.
4. Drive out the pin holding the take-up lever to its assembly (back towards front) and remove the lever
5. Unscrew the lift height adjusters on the back of the lift assembly
6. Remove the lift assembly from the trapeze, pulling it out of the front
7. Lift the needlebar out of the top
8. Locate the little T shaped thread control spring, just above where the needle holder screws onto the needlebar and carefully unscrew the two tiny screws that secure it. Use two magnets to keep them safe. Keep them in their original positions (left and right) and separated.
9. Remove the spring
10. clean the bar while it is out.
11. Install the new spring and secure it tightly with the little screws. Make sure they are all the way down. Try to install the screws in the same positions, in case they have worn according to their original mounting position.
12. Lightly oil the needlebar and replace it into the top of the hole in the head.
13. Replace the needle lift assembly and its adjusters and the take-up lever pin (front towards back)
14. Replace the pin that holds the needlebar to the needle lifter (front towards back)
15. Re-attach the darning T-bar assembly, if exists.
16. Attach the needle holder assembly and position it so that the needle is centered in the hole in the throat cover plate.
17. You are done at this point

Or, take it to a competent sewing machine mechanic and pay him to do all this.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Wizcrafts

[CowboyBob]

suem,

Don't put grease in the back,there's a roller there & it will buildup behind the roller & stop it from spinning & put flat spots on it & ruin it!ONLY use oil on the whole machine.

On the issure about the butterfly turning the others gave you some things to look at & I just thought I'd mention that sometimes it gets dirt & etc in it & if you just keep oiling & turning it'll loosen up.

Bob

[suem]

suem,

Don't put grease in the back,there's a roller there & it will buildup behind the roller & stop it from spinning & put flat spots on it & ruin it!ONLY use oil on the whole machine.

On the issure about the butterfly turning the others gave you some things to look at & I just thought I'd mention that sometimes it gets dirt & etc in it & if you just keep oiling & turning it'll loosen up.

Bob

That's what I mean some dufus already put some thick black grease back there before I got it!!!!!! So how do I get this off before it causes an issue?

Wow, not surprising, people that sold it to me told me that an industrial mechanic worked on it...sounds like the guy was an idiot. So will pb blaster do to take all that out of there? Or wd 40? I know there are some products that dissolve grease...heck even I know you don't put anything but white oil on a sewing machine. The 29K book says in one place that if you have a squeaky issue that regular oil isn't fixing to try some hot paraffin...that's still miles from thick black possibly lithium or bearing grease as this stuff appears to be!

Aggh always take a close look at your purchases, some idiot could have screwed it up.

Going to inspect the spring and keep oiling it hopefully that's all it is..........

[suem]

Sue;

First of all, you should examine the spring on the needlebar to see if it warped. Lower the needlebar all the way down. Aim a flashlight, or clamp light onto the left side of the lowered needlebar and look at the left side of the bar, just above the mounting bracket for the needle. The spring is visible at that point. The thin shaft rides inside a 1/6" wide channel and the bottom looks like a paddle and rests in a cutout. If it is warped the paddle part will not sit squarely across the cutout, but will be twisted. Ditto for its thin strut that connects to the top of the spring, where it is screwed onto the needlebar, with two little screws. A warped spring catches inside the hole as you turn the butterfly and will break off the paddle section.

Here is what you will need to pull the needlebar, to replace a warped or broken thread control spring:

1. A 9/16" open end wrench, only if your patcher has a tall hex shaped darning assembly sticking up, with a rotating T bar on top. It will need to be unscrewed before the needle lifter pin can be driven out.
2. a set of drift pin punches, with small, medium and large faces
3. a hammer
4. a medium width flat blade screwdriver
5. a small, narrow blade screwdriver, with a decent handle. Or, a medium jewelers screwdriver and possibly pliers to turn it.

The needlebar assembly is in two pieces. The needle is mounted onto a little piece of metal that is screwed onto the needlebar. That screw is above the needle securing screw. Here is the sequence to remove the needlebar:

1. Unscrew the needle holder from the needlebar
2. If your machine has the T bar darning attachment, behind the needlebar, on top, remove it with a 9/16" wrench
3. Use a drift punch to drive out the tapered pin that holds the needlebar to the take-up lever puck. Drive from the back towards you.
4. Drive out the pin holding the take-up lever to its assembly (back towards front) and remove the lever
5. Unscrew the lift height adjusters on the back of the lift assembly
6. Remove the lift assembly from the trapeze, pulling it out of the front
7. Lift the needlebar out of the top
8. Locate the little T shaped thread control spring, just above where the needle holder screws onto the needlebar and carefully unscrew the two tiny screws that secure it. Use two magnets to keep them safe. Keep them in their original positions (left and right) and separated.
9. Remove the spring
10. clean the bar while it is out.
11. Install the new spring and secure it tightly with the little screws. Make sure they are all the way down. Try to install the screws in the same positions, in case they have worn according to their original mounting position.
12. Lightly oil the needlebar and replace it into the top of the hole in the head.
13. Replace the needle lift assembly and its adjusters and the take-up lever pin (front towards back)
14. Replace the pin that holds the needlebar to the needle lifter (front towards back)
15. Re-attach the darning T-bar assembly, if exists.
16. Attach the needle holder assembly and position it so that the needle is centered in the hole in the throat cover plate.
17. You are done at this point

Or, take it to a competent sewing machine mechanic and pay him to do all this.

The second part sounds daunting but nothing I can't handle if the phone doesn't ring, people leave me alone and I've got all day ;-) Only part that is a little intimidating is knocking that pin out, it doesn't sound like you're saying there are any hard to do adjustments in there (kind of unbelievable but if you say so....).

thanks for the tip about the crudded up butterfly. It does look a little cruddy in there if you look up from the needle plate; going to keep oiling it and pray...course if it has to go in for this other issue (s) I'll just leave it.

As for inspecting that spring...I guess I must be an idiot, I can see the slot in the area above the needle, I can spot the two screws that are screwed onto the needle bar up beyond the butterfly but I sure can't see the "paddle," could it be that it's already broken off? That would be annoying.

Can you get a picture of what it's supposed to look like and post it? I guess I'll find out if it's broken when i try to sew won't I; my impression is I won't get good stitches if that is broken. I guess if I'm getting the main drive gear cleaned of grease (and it is grease I put my finger on it and it came off with the consistency of vaseline but it smells like lithium grease), the butterfly straightened out (i.e. not sticking) and that stupid spring repaired that 70 bucks is looking more and more fair.

Aggravating I wanted to play with it this week.