Saddle Skirt Attachment Method Question

[GrampaJoel]

Hi all.

I have the three Stohlman saddle making books and the Watt saddle making dvds and the Dusty Johnson saddle making dvd. I have all this wonderful information on saddle making.

But they all seem to use a different method of attaching the saddle skirts. I took a look at the saddle I have that I bought from a shop and it has a different type of saddle skirt attachment.

Now, I'm totally confused as to the best way to attach saddle skirts now. So I'm seeking you help.

my question is.....

How do you builders here attach your saddle skirts?

Thanks

Grampa Joel

[jwwright]

Tug straps, 7/16" wide latigo. 2 in the front and 3 in the back, both sides. JW

[GrampaJoel]

Thanks for the reply JW .

So you use just tug straps.

May I take it that you personally don't drill through the bars for the tug straps? Your method is similar to the Watt method.

Anyone else care to share your method of Saddle skirt attachment??

[jwwright]

Joel........tug straps do not go through the bars..........the go through the skirts outside of the bar area. Strings can or can not go through the tree. Judging only from what I've seen on the Watt dvds several years ago, I use more tug straps than he did in the video. I would say that my method is much more like the Stohlman .The strings are a seperate issue from the tug straps. I have drilled the tree for the strings and I have not. I think both methods have good points. Basically, I find out if the customer has a preference. If no preference is given, then on ranch saddles that are going to be used as they should, then I drill. JW

Edited December 9, 2010 by jwwright

[GrampaJoel]

Thanks JW for clearing that up the difference between strings and tugs..

I have been trying to separate the good methods from the not so good.

I wondered when watching the Watt DVDs that he said something about building saddles for working cowboys, or something like that. But the connection he used of the skirts to the tree seemed pretty weak to me. He put what he called saddle strings on his saddle, but they were just through the jockeys in the back.

This wanting to build a saddle correctly has turned out to be a pretty expensive venture when I have spent 300 for the Stohlman books, 80 for the Johnson DVD and another 400 + for the Watt DVDs,,,,,

and I still have a lot of concerns about the correct way to build a saddle, and I still need to ask questions on the forums.

So it's OK for the strings to go through the tree then. I want a ranch working quality saddle.

I think my saddle will be really great, when I get this stuff figured out..

[JAM]

A saddlemaker friend gave me some really good reasons for NOT putting strings through the tree:

(1) The strings will break one day and need replacing, and strings that go through the tree are a lot more work to replace;

(2) If a string should ever get hooked on something, he wants the string to pull out of the leather rather than yank the tree and cause a wreck.

So, my question is, what are the reasons why a working ranch saddle needs the strings to go through the tree? I can't envision a situation in which the skirts are going to be pulled off the tree and need through-tree strings to hold them on... I'm not a ranch cowboy, so could use the knowledge.

Julia

[bruce johnson]

I am with JW, I use tugs whenever I can. On some of the repairs I have to deal with pocketed bars and just don't like them. Sometimes they don't pull up tight and it is a pain to resew them through the woolskin. I use one twist nail and one drywall screw for my lugs. I've done a few pocketed bars for guys riding in the pines who worry about needles working in under the bars though.

I drill for most strings, but only through the bars not the skirts. I gouge out the rawhide between my string holes and seal with a little varnish. The strings lay flat on the bottom of the bars. It makes them secure and easy to change when one breaks or is cut off for a repair. Unscrew the lugs, drop the skirt, restring, and screw the lug right back in the same hole. No fiddling around running one through the skirts and under the wool.

[JAM]

Okay - I certainly agree with the idea of not running strings through the skirts - but why through the tree at all? What advantage does that give?

[bruce johnson]

A saddlemaker friend gave me some really good reasons for NOT putting strings through the tree:

(1) The strings will break one day and need replacing, and strings that go through the tree are a lot more work to replace;

(2) If a string should ever get hooked on something, he wants the string to pull out of the leather rather than yank the tree and cause a wreck.

So, my question is, what are the reasons why a working ranch saddle needs the strings to go through the tree? I can't envision a situation in which the skirts are going to be pulled off the tree and need through-tree strings to hold them on... I'm not a ranch cowboy, so could use the knowledge.

Julia

Julia,

There are sure two ways and both work. There are regional and personal biases for either way and it is kind of one of those saddlemaker's debates that won't ever be solved. Personally,I use maybe heavier strings than some people do. Some of my customers tie doctoring bags and saddlebags on. A lot of kids pull themselves up with a string.

Lighter strings will break before they tear out leather, a stronger string pulls leather. The problem when they pull leather is they tear off the front jockey or seat jocket at the cantle ear. These are pretty expensive repairs.

[JAM]

Okay - thanks. Good answer.

Julia

[Steve Brewer]

I will probably open a can of worms with this,I don't drill any string holes.I hate opening the tree to moisture and dirt that can get there through the string holes.Years ago I noticed that trees were rotting out around the string holes and quit drilling.With bleeders and proper nailing in the gullet area the skirts will not move.It makes it a easy for people to replace there own strings when they are screwed down,no chance for bulk Under the skirt from a twisted string.Just my way of doing things.

Steve

Edited December 10, 2010 by Steve Brewer

[Ken Nelson]

I will probably open a can of worms with this,I don't drill any string holes.I hate opening the tree to moisture and dirt that can get there through the string holes.Years ago I noticed that trees were rotting out around the string holes and quit drilling.With bleeders and proper nailing in the gullet area the skirts will not move.It makes it a easy for people to replace there own strings when they are screwed down,no chance for bulk Under the skirt from a twisted string.Just my way of doing things.

Steve

Likewise for me too. Ken

[AndyKnight]

I will probably open a can of worms with this,I don't drill any string holes.I hate opening the tree to moisture and dirt that can get there through the string holes.Years ago I noticed that trees were rotting out around the string holes and quit drilling.With bleeders and proper nailing in the gullet area the skirts will not move.It makes it a easy for people to replace there own strings when they are screwed down,no chance for bulk Under the skirt from a twisted string.Just my way of doing things.

Steve

Not a right or a wrong...Just different ways of doing things.

I am with Steve on this one... unless a customer insists. I also use 5 bleeders on each skirt. I sell alot of working rigs and I have found my strings to be plenty strong. I pre drill all my screws and use a min of 2 per string.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Basically, I follow the Stohlman instructions, and have for years with no adverse results on the lug method. I especially like the way lugs pull the skirt up tight really force the tree into the pockets that blocking creates. As for the strings, it is a matter of style and use, for me. Around here either will work equally well, as most riders are pleasure riders. It's a customers option for me. Like all of the guys have said, there is no right or wrong, just a difference in "how she gets done".

Bob

[GrampaJoel]

Before you read the rest of my response Please understand, Believe me I am a happy camper with all your responses and I am not trying to be snide or a smart ass. My reply comes from having been a farrier in my younger days.

I still do my own horse, but no one else's. I think you all will understand my reply now.

So here is what I have learned today. Referring to attaching skirts to a tree. .

So..

1. Stohlman says to drill, but the truth be told, I can drill or not drill, and it can be a regional reason for doing, or not doing so.

2. Put more tugs( lugs, bleeders, not strings) on than J Watt did in his video.

Wow!!

I never dreamed it would be like this.

It seems that saddle building and design is very similar( within limits) to saddle fitting, saddle styling, horse training, horse shoeing, where a bosal should hang, what bit a colt should be started in, how long a pair of chinks should be, and just about any other equine related or, non related area of discussion.

I sure do learn a lot of stuff and get a good laugh here on this forum.

Thanks everyone for allowing me to open this can of worms. You guys, and gals make my days!!!

[alb]

Andy - What do you mean when you say you use 5 bleeders on each skirt? Also - I'm having a hard time envisioning how you would fit 2 screws on a string....

Ann

Not a right or a wrong...Just different ways of doing things.

I am with Steve on this one... unless a customer insists. I also use 5 bleeders on each skirt. I sell alot of working rigs and I have found my strings to be plenty strong. I pre drill all my screws and use a min of 2 per string.

[AndyKnight]

Andy - What do you mean when you say you use 5 bleeders on each skirt? Also - I'm having a hard time envisioning how you would fit 2 screws on a string....

Ann

I bleed 5 tugs through the skirt , 2 in front and 3 in the rear.

Technically, I usually run one screw through the string itself but then either side of the string usually through the larger button or latigo hanger etc . run a couple more. The important thing is that in a wreck you want the string to fail and not rip everything out and causing an expensive repair.

[seveneves]

Thanks JW for clearing that up the difference between strings and tugs..

I have been trying to separate the good methods from the not so good.

I wondered when watching the Watt DVDs that he said something about building saddles for working cowboys, or something like that. But the connection he used of the skirts to the tree seemed pretty weak to me. He put what he called saddle strings on his saddle, but they were just through the jockeys in the back.

This wanting to build a saddle correctly has turned out to be a pretty expensive venture when I have spent 300 for the Stohlman books, 80 for the Johnson DVD and another 400 + for the Watt DVDs,,,,,

and I still have a lot of concerns about the correct way to build a saddle, and I still need to ask questions on the forums.

So it's OK for the strings to go through the tree then. I want a ranch working quality saddle.

I think my saddle will be really great, when I get this stuff figured out..

I think it's a personal preference. No matter how much you study the dvds and books, if it's your first saddle you're still going to mess up. I'm on my third and still make little mistakes. The best way to learn is just get in there and start.

[BransonBradshaw]

7/16 latigo for tug straps but what weight is reccomended?

[EdOdgers]

Left over ends after cutting saddle strings; about 7 ounce. 

[oltoot]

My "standard" was a combination of strings through everything, lug strings, and a screw(s) in the gullet and under the cantle. I did not like pocketed bars, also most that I built were skirt rigged and had additional attachment with rigging set up. Never experienced a skirt move that way unless involved in one of "them big wrecks" (Pole or post or trailer door) Not hard to repair either if I just stopped and thought a moment about sequence. MY own were easiest as I had replaced most nails with drywall screws and had figured out where to taper and skive to avoid jerks and pops which tore and broke things. And all (most of) my strings left the shop extra long so they could be double wrapped and release tied. You can always cut a little off of a string but rarely can you make them longer