Compounds For Stropping And Buffing

[Knipper]

I suspect what I'm about to suggest might seem like heresy to some, but I hope you'll take it in the spirit in which its intended...to help improve the edges on your steel cutting tools.

Somewhere along the line, the term "jeweler's rouge" came to be an almost generic term for all buffing compounds. But, in this case, the term can be taken literally. Jeweler's rouge is a compound intended to polish jewelry (gold and silver). It also does a good job of polishing brass, nickel silver and copper. What all these metals have in common is they are relatively soft. Jeweler's rouge (rouge is the French word for red...) is ideal for soft metals because when you polish someone's gold ring, you want to keep the gold on the ring, not buff it away. Hence, the abrasive qualities of red Jeweler's rouge is very, very slight; just enough to polish, but not enough to wear away. Tripoli, a brown compound, is another type intended to polish soft metals, but slightly more aggressive than jeweler's rouge. When it comes to steel, however, something more aggressive is needed to help maintain your cutting edge. Buffing compounds intended for steel not only polish, but actually 'cut' the steel like a very fine hone. There is a general color code to these compounds, but within each class or color, grits do vary, depending on the manufacturer. Another issue is, anyone can contact a manufacturer and have a run of a particular grit made in any color they want to specify (One of my suppliers has bars of compound made that I like very much for my knives, and he had them color it light blue!). The grit doesn't determine the color of the bar and vice versa! But, for the most part, compounds for steel come in black, gray, white and green. All have 'cut and color' properties. That means the compound 'cuts' the steel and polishes it (what they refer to as color). Black is usually the most aggressive, then the gray's, greens and whites. You can charge your buffing wheel with them or rub them on a leather strop.

I've found that for me, the best all around compounds are the green chrome type. They have enough abrasive qualities to 'cut' the steel and leave a nice polished surface. This is what would be used to maintain a sharp edge. For more drastic action, use the gray's. Black or 'emery' compound is too aggressive to use on a regular basis, but is great if your blade is rusted or stained. It takes that off quickly, but the edge should be treated with a gray or green afterwards.

The problem with using jeweler's rouge is that though it might shine the steel, its not really removing metal at the edge like you want it too. In fact, it might actually dull the blade. Here's why: After an initial buff or strop, the edge is tested. Sharp?, no...better press harder. Still not sharp? Hmmm...better increase the angle. At the end of the session, the edge is now shiny as can be...and rounded off! Had a green compound been used, light pressure at a slight angle would have given the user a scary sharp edge (assuming it was honed well to begin with of course).

I have read several books written by Stohlman, which recommend stropping with 'jeweler's rouge', and this perhaps has influenced people to use it. It could have been an error or intentional. But I strongly recommend you give the green or other compounds a try. They are intended for steel and may give you more of what you're trying to achieve in your edged tools.

Knipper

Edited August 2, 2011 by Knipper

[r lenna]

I use the green myself to start with and then something soft to finish off with. I use a Barry King knife and I can cut for 30 mins or more before it starts to drag. but I strop for maybe five mins or more when I do strop it. I Rob

[King's X]

I think the information is good and appreciate you taking the time to post it for some of our newer family members. I also use the green compound overall, but I have some yellow mixture that I have used in the past with my chip carving blades.

Thanks again.

[TwinOaks]

Thanks Knipper for posting the info. A lot of our more experienced members have learned this through trial and error, probably because no one ever told them the difference. This bit of information should prove invaluable to our new members (and maybe to others) for keeping the keenest of edges on their steel.

[Knipper]

Yes! The colors of buffing compound are all over the spectrum. You mentioned yellow. Sometimes you have to take the risk and try something. Most places that sell compounds, for knife making or for woodcarver's use, are pretty good about describing what the compound will do, and how aggressive the grit is. That's a GOOD thing.

I think the information is good and appreciate you taking the time to post it for some of our newer family members. I also use the green compound overall, but I have some yellow mixture that I have used in the past with my chip carving blades.

Thanks again.

[Ladykahu]

Bit of a 'newbie' question...

My hubby has some white and green polishing compound that he uses for his car / engine restoration stuff.

When I started with leather work earlier this year I didn't have any 'jewelers rouge' so I tried using the white compound he had, but his is kind of greasy and just wouldn't rub off on cardboard as I expected. When I ordered some blades and tools from the states I added in some tandy jewelers rouge and instantly noticed the difference on my swivel knife cutting.

Are there different base types (oil vs water) to the buffing compounds? or could it just have been his block was to old and had dried to much to rub off?

I have recently picked up a second hand head knife that needs a bit of work done on it to bring it up to scratch and had been thinking I would try his coarser polishing compounds again.

Natalie

[Knipper]

Natalie,

Yes, some of the compounds are very dry. Frequently, some kind of wax is used to bind the grit together. If you run into a very dry bar, it will still work on a buffing wheel, but for a leather strop, you might have to rub some mineral oil (neatsfoot oil might work too) into the leather before you try to rub in compound. I wouldn't use cardboard as the base for your strop. I would think a swivel knife blade would require a firmer surface like the cardboard backing to a note pad...maybe you weren't referring to corrugated. The oil breaks down the wax and makes it easier to spread. Also, some leathers take the compound better than others. I've run into some that just won't hold compound as the grain is too tight. For that leather, you can take some 150-220 grit sandpaper to the grain side and rough it up a bit first...the oil does help, though. In my opinion, horse hide makes for the best strop (Barbers used that for their straight razors for a couple hundred years). Just keep putting some oil on as you rub the compound in. Eventually, you'll have a thin layer of it on the leather and you'll be good to go. If the compound starts flaking off, add a bit more oil and rub. In general, you'll have better results with the green as opposed to the white, but even white is better than "jeweler's rouge".

For head knives, I like thicker leather, with some give to it. That helps conform to the convex shape of the edge. For other types of blades, such as bevel knives, skivers and swivel knife blades, a firmer surface might be best(thin 4-5 oz leather glued to a board).

Knipper

Bit of a 'newbie' question...

My hubby has some white and green polishing compound that he uses for his car / engine restoration stuff.

When I started with leather work earlier this year I didn't have any 'jewelers rouge' so I tried using the white compound he had, but his is kind of greasy and just wouldn't rub off on cardboard as I expected. When I ordered some blades and tools from the states I added in some tandy jewelers rouge and instantly noticed the difference on my swivel knife cutting.

Are there different base types (oil vs water) to the buffing compounds? or could it just have been his block was to old and had dried to much to rub off?

I have recently picked up a second hand head knife that needs a bit of work done on it to bring it up to scratch and had been thinking I would try his coarser polishing compounds again.

Natalie

Edited August 3, 2011 by Knipper

[mike59]

Thank You for this information. Can you recommend a supplier that sells the various bars?

Natalie,

Yes, some of the compounds are very dry. Frequently, some kind of wax is used to bind the grit together. If you run into a very dry bar, it will still work on a buffing wheel, but for a leather strop, you might have to rub some mineral oil (neatsfoot oil might work too) into the leather before you try to rub in compound. I wouldn't use cardboard as the base for your strop. I would think a swivel knife blade would require a firmer surface like the cardboard backing to a note pad...maybe you weren't referring to corrugated. The oil breaks down the wax and makes it easier to spread. Also, some leathers take the compound better than others. I've run into some that just won't hold compound as the grain is too tight. For that leather, you can take some 150-220 grit sandpaper to the grain side and rough it up a bit first...the oil does help, though. In my opinion, horse hide makes for the best strop (Barbers used that for their straight razors for a couple hundred years). Just keep putting some oil on as you rub the compound in. Eventually, you'll have a thin layer of it on the leather and you'll be good to go. If the compound starts flaking off, add a bit more oil and rub. In general, you'll have better results with the green as opposed to the white, but even white is better than "jeweler's rouge".

For head knives, I like thicker leather, with some give to it. That helps conform to the convex shape of the edge. For other types of blades, such as bevel knives, skivers and swivel knife blades, a firmer surface might be best(thin 4-5 oz leather glued to a board).

Knipper

[bentley]

Great information, I have been doing leather work for many years and had never heard of the various compounds available. Now the search begins on where to find them.

Thank you.

[Knipper]

For the green compounds, try Knife and Gun finishing supplies,www.knifeandgun.com, and ask for their 'premium green bar'. It tends to rub into leather a little easier. I also have very good luck with a green compound from R.W.Wilson, www.rwwilsonknives.com. Call and ask him for the green compound in the cardboard tube. Both of these vendors have additional compounds in various grits available.

Knipper

Thank You for this information. Can you recommend a supplier that sells the various bars?

[King's X]

www.leatherwranglers.com

They are in the leather knife business. I get my compound from them and they ship worldwide. I would also hope that some of our Aussie brothers and sisters will chime in and help you find something locally. Australia just had your Leather Dimension show, so I know that there must be some suppliers locally or least crafts people to help you out. If not, we have a local store that sells different rouge that I would be willing to get for you and ship it if you are willing to pay for the items. Let me know if you run into any problems. I have quite a few Aussie friends on Facebook that I can put you into contact with.

Good luck.

[Lippy]

Speaking of compounds and buffing . . .

My buffing motor is a 1/4hp unit turning at 1725 rpm's. I've been using 5" dia. x 1" wide buffing wheels. Is that the right sized wheel for general buffing/polishing leather tools and knife edges? Also, has anyone tried using a white compound called Fabulustre?

[Ferg]

Obviously someone uses a flap/buffing wheel to do edges, I never have and do not know of anyone else that does.

I can see using them to clean-up some tools but not the edges. Use a strop.

ferg

Speaking of compounds and buffing . . .

My buffing motor is a 1/4hp unit turning at 1725 rpm's. I've been using 5" dia. x 1" wide buffing wheels. Is that the right sized wheel for general buffing/polishing leather tools and knife edges? Also, has anyone tried using a white compound called Fabulustre?

[Lippy]

I've had good luck using a buffing wheel (not a flap wheel) to polish the edges of knives, edgers and punches. It was suggested by Herb French in his book "sharpening and Maintenance of Leather Cutting Tools. I've also found that using a Surgi-Sharp 1x30 leather belt on a Harbor Freight stationary belt sander works well with white compound for knife edges. A lot faster than hand stropping. My primary question still is which size wheel works best for my motor.

Obviously someone uses a flap/buffing wheel to do edges, I never have and do not know of anyone else that does.

I can see using them to clean-up some tools but not the edges. Use a strop.

ferg

[Ferg]

I will try it some time. The buffing wheel you are using is the same size I use to polish and the rpm on your motor is correct. If you are driving the shaft with the buffing wheel with a belt from your motor I would use a smaller pulley on the motor than the shaft. Seems about 1000 rpm is about right. I am sure someone else will jump in here.

ferg

I've had good luck using a buffing wheel (not a flap wheel) to polish the edges of knives, edgers and punches. It was suggested by Herb French in his book "sharpening and Maintenance of Leather Cutting Tools. I've also found that using a Surgi-Sharp 1x30 leather belt on a Harbor Freight stationary belt sander works well with white compound for knife edges. A lot faster than hand stropping. My primary question still is which size wheel works best for my motor.

[Chef niloc]

Another problem with rouges or any "bar/stick" type compounds Most of them are not made with heat treated steels in mind. They are made to be used on buffers. Buffers spin fast and create heat this heat melts the binders in the compound thus allowing the abrasives to do there thing. When hand stropping not a lot of heat is produced so those "hard" compounds don't work as well as they should/hoods. There are only a few that are made for heat treated steel, you can tell because they are softer. The binders are geared to melt easer and have a higher amount of abrasive in them, they cost more too.For hand stropping tools I find that the green chrome and diamond powders work well, but can be a little dusty used on leather, felts better. For a leather strop the diamond sprays can't be beet. They are a slurry of fine grade diamond dust and alcoholl, the 98% alcohol so it evaporates fast leavening a fine even layer of diamond on the strop. As you can guess diamond will cut/polish better and faster then anything else. Diamond dust when looked at under a microscope looks like little sharp pieces of broken glass. Chromium and aluminum oxide on the other hand look like little balls. Now don't go thinking " won't sharp broken glass looking particles be scratchy and not polish? Not when your talking about dust that's 3 micron or smaller.The sight below has good stuff, good strop and such too. the green chrome powders and "diamond dust" can also be mixed your self that way you can control the concentration of abrasives your self. Hand America use to have a green chrome soap mix that worked great. I don't know what kind of soap he used but I think it was just dish soap? Other soaps made for leather should work just as good if nit better?

http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/mobile/default.aspx#C27

[Massive]

If you look at what the Stohlman types do, they rouge the steel every time they take a few cuts. That is a pretty clear indication you have a very weak abrasive, but that isn't all bad. Barbers traditionally did the same thing (with whatever materials they use). Because every client is entitled to the perfect shave. And I guess if you want every cut with the swivel or round knife, etc... to be done with a virgin edge that is utterly repeatable, you might do the same.

It is an interesting question as to why we strop. With barbers, the edge on the razor was well above what could be expected from the stones of the day, so the strop was a way of going to "11" for those with Spinal Tap references. But today that is no longer the case. There are a lot of methods for going to a super fine edge, many more efficient than most in common use. There are fewer when you get down to methods that do not require cleanup or leave residues on the edge. The strop also rounds the edge which has certain advantages in some work, and not others. The fastest compound for sharpening is diamond powder. I don't know a clean carrier, but people are doing a lot of work with it, and there are presumably wax based sticks out there. One can cheaply buy the powder, so I assume they could be made.

[Art]

Knipper,

I don't know what they use today, but whatever they used to use as a binder, my dog (long gone) loved it, so much so that I used to have to hide the bars of polishing compound up high where he couldn't get them. He finished a whole bar one time, well when I found him he had all but consumed a couple of inches of it, and I thought it would kill him. I called the vet and he told me to put him outside with a lot of water and see what happened, but he thought he would be ok but to keep an eye on him. Didn't phase him one bit, and I didn't check to see if he was all smooth and shiny inside.

Art

Natalie,

Yes, some of the compounds are very dry. Frequently, some kind of wax is used to bind the grit together. If you run into a very dry bar, it will still work on a buffing wheel, but for a leather strop, you might have to rub some mineral oil (neatsfoot oil might work too) into the leather before you try to rub in compound. I wouldn't use cardboard as the base for your strop. I would think a swivel knife blade would require a firmer surface like the cardboard backing to a note pad...maybe you weren't referring to corrugated. The oil breaks down the wax and makes it easier to spread. Also, some leathers take the compound better than others. I've run into some that just won't hold compound as the grain is too tight. For that leather, you can take some 150-220 grit sandpaper to the grain side and rough it up a bit first...the oil does help, though. In my opinion, horse hide makes for the best strop (Barbers used that for their straight razors for a couple hundred years). Just keep putting some oil on as you rub the compound in. Eventually, you'll have a thin layer of it on the leather and you'll be good to go. If the compound starts flaking off, add a bit more oil and rub. In general, you'll have better results with the green as opposed to the white, but even white is better than "jeweler's rouge".

For head knives, I like thicker leather, with some give to it. That helps conform to the convex shape of the edge. For other types of blades, such as bevel knives, skivers and swivel knife blades, a firmer surface might be best(thin 4-5 oz leather glued to a board).

Knipper

[Chef niloc]

1324234285[/url]' post='224917']

Knipper,

I don't know what they use today, but whatever they used to use as a binder, my dog (long gone) loved it, so much so that I used to have to hide the bars of polishing compound up high where he couldn't get them. He finished a whole bar one time, well when I found him he had all but consumed a couple of inches of it, and I thought it would kill him. I called the vet and he told me to put him outside with a lot of water and see what happened, but he thought he would be ok but to keep an eye on him. Didn't phase him one bit, and I didn't check to see if he was all smooth and shiny inside.

Art

Reading this and taking you seriously.Refined beef tallow is used a lot, animals love that stuff. Petrolatum greases are also used a lot, My cats go crazy for Vaseline (Petroleum jelly, petrolatum, or soft paraffin). The 1st time I sore my cat licking out 1/2 the jar I got got scared and called the vet, was told its acutely good for them.Now for the bad news. Chromium oxide is poisonous in large amounts, in small amounts it's still not good and can cause problems. It will build up in the system if small amounts are consumed over a period of time. Lead is used in some compounds. We all know leads bad to eat but tastes great...think kids and paint chips. Lead acts as a binder & lubricant in compounds, I would think that it is not as commonly used today as it once was? I do know that the warning label on the compound would have to say if it contained lead. Eating aluminum oxide won't kill a dog over night but over time might give him altimeters.

[catskin]

ATTN. Canadians

If you haven't found buffing compounds yet check Princess Auto they have several grits listed in the catalog. I haven't been to the city since I found it in the catalog but will be buying some next time I get to Princess Auto.

[cdf]

In a pinch mechanics handcleaner works as a fine finishing product . Corse grained linen + chalk is used by some straight razor owners . Diamond paste on MDF offcuts can make a very fine hone , of any dimension you choose .

Heavy felt , and old canvas firehose take up abrasives really well .

Chris

[Pelallito]

I ran across this site following a sharpening discussion -http://www.chefknivestogo.com/handamerican.html

I am going to try some of their products as soon as I can order.

Regards,

Fred

[Leela Valley Leather]

For the truly obsessive in having a sharp blade (those who have/do restore or own straight razors, myself included) a diamond lapping paste (best used on a backed strop) is the ultimate, just pick the micron grade.

http://www.diamondtool.com/dialapng.html

Note: 5000 grit has particles approximately 5 micron in size

[asitcomestome]

I also get my polishing compound from Princess Auto here in Canada and I love working with it.

The brand is 'Enkay' and they claim to be out of Brooklyn N.Y.

I rub some on like a crayon onto a couple 2" x 12" pieces of MDF and add a few drops of mineral oil. It makes a great slurry and you can easily see where the edge is making contact.

I use the coarsest available (Black emery) then finish with what's called 'White Diamond' for my honing. On the packages scale of coarseness the Black is coarser than Brown Tripoli and the White Diamond is just finer than the Tripoli.

Also to sharpen concave gouging tools like stiching groovers I will load an appropriately sized piece of fiberous twine with polishing compound and run it through the cutting hole.

[Fowlingpiece]

Simichrome