Clone Machines - 205 Or 441?

[Wizcrafts]

Ken I didn't mean to be un-responsive....I just missed your question. The answer is no, I don't change the shims. Vernon says that's pretty unusual, that I shouldn't be able to use 69 thread...especially without having skipping problems. When I bought this machine I was told it was the very last model which was imported from where ever the hell they were manufacturing them (Czechoslovakia? ), before they began making them wherever the hell they're making them now Anyway according to Vernon I should change the shims because his are metal and much more accurate than what I have. I'm a little concerned about messing with them. My philosophy is usually "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I will confess, however, that I am limited to certain stitch lengths. In other words I can't use 69 thread and sew at 6 spi. I have to sew at 9 -12spi, which is fine fore me because I prefer a harness looking stitch to the more common "western" stitch anyway. Conversely I cannot sew with 207 at 12spi....I must increase the length to about 6-8spi. So however my machine was made, it allows to do things I shouldn't be able to and yet I am not able to do some things which others can. Heck I didn't even know my machine had shims until I spoke with Vernon at Sheridan this summer, LOL!

Here is a photo of 92 thread @ 12spi on my Adler 205/370.

I have mentioned this before, but will do so again. It is possible to create a bigger loop for the point to pic up. There is a combination of thigs that can improve the loop size. Most notably, is to try using Schmetz needles, which are made to push more of the loop to the right side of the needle.

Next, try reducing the travel of the check spring, which holds the top thread under tension as the take up lever descends.

Finally, try using one needle size smaller than usual. So, instead of using a #18, try a #16 needle, if you can find any. It will pass #69 thread quite nicely, but with less slack.

Lastly, alter the timing of the needle bar to ascend a bit more before the point passes the cutout above the eye. Make sure that the point is well above the actual eye.

Applying these changes may improve the small thread sew-ability, without sacrificing large thread stitch sizes. The increased travel in the needle may allow you to lengthen the stitches with thin tread, should you ever want to. The bigger loops would allow you to reduce or lengthen the stitches for bigger thread. This will also make the machine sew more reliably in reverse.

The above are my opinions. But, they have worked for me.

[Ken Nelson]

Ken I didn't mean to be un-responsive....I just missed your question. The answer is no, I don't change the shims. Vernon says that's pretty unusual, that I shouldn't be able to use 69 thread...especially without having skipping problems. When I bought this machine I was told it was the very last model which was imported from where ever the hell they were manufacturing them (Czechoslovakia? ), before they began making them wherever the hell they're making them now Anyway according to Vernon I should change the shims because his are metal and much more accurate than what I have. I'm a little concerned about messing with them. My philosophy is usually "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I will confess, however, that I am limited to certain stitch lengths. In other words I can't use 69 thread and sew at 6 spi. I have to sew at 9 -12spi, which is fine fore me because I prefer a harness looking stitch to the more common "western" stitch anyway. Conversely I cannot sew with 207 at 12spi....I must increase the length to about 6-8spi. So however my machine was made, it allows to do things I shouldn't be able to and yet I am not able to do some things which others can. Heck I didn't even know my machine had shims until I spoke with Vernon at Sheridan this summer, LOL!

The first photo is of a belt sewn with 92 thread @ 12spi. The second is of a purse sewn with 69 thread @ 10-12 spi (I don't remember which). Both were sewn on 205/370 Adler.

That is some NICE stitching. Thank you for the information. Ken

[RockyAussie]

On 29/08/2011 at 6:01 PM, Leather Guru said:

Good morning,

I bought a techsew 5100 some years ago and it's supposed to be a copy of a 441. The 205 is similar in function as the 441 . You know triple entrainment . But the main difference is the lenght of the arm. You could drive a truck through the opening. Anyway all those machines are made in china these days. I changed the type of needle on mine (put in a shorter one cause the shorter the needle the less flexible and better regularity in the stitch lenght when using finer needles)

Just wondering what needle system would be the next size shorter than the standard 794 for the 441? I can't find a chart of needle lengths with diameters etc.

[Constabulary]

2 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Just wondering what needle system would be the next size shorter than the standard 794 for the 441? I can't find a chart of needle lengths with diameters etc.

System 328 / 214x2  I´d say

[RockyAussie]

Thanks Constabulary. Would you know how to find the length measurements on that system? I believe that this one fits the 45k Singer but I don't have one to check.

[brmax]

Heres a post with some great tips on that one, interesting there is two shank sizes they discuss a bit.

Floyd

http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/59564-needle-dimensions/

[RockyAussie]

Thanks Floyd, That post mostly covers what I was trying to work out.Unfortunately here in Australia the colour range in thread sizes drops right down when you get thicker than the 138/20m range and the 794 LR range of needles only goes down to the 160/23 needle range which is a bit big for that size thread. Also at that 794 length it is very flexy and more likely to miss stitches. I was hoping there might be a solution by going this way.

Regards Brian

[Constabulary]

yes, thats the 45K needle. Total Length is 60 / 62 mm. Shaft top to needle eye is 52mm. But the shaft diameter varies