Members Spinner Posted January 13, 2012 Members Report Posted January 13, 2012 I am so outraged by this that I am making a post. Should the Admins feel the need to delete it, so be it but I need to get this off my chest. Silvia brought to my attention today some burnishers that are being sold on ebay that look almost exactly like mine. I say almost as it appears from their pictures that the party in question couldn't quite get the tips turned correctly. Any of my clients that own a "Holster Maker's Special" will recognize the difference and inferior work from the pictures. Now, normally I don't mind competition and in fact will often invite someone to give my other hobby, woodturning a spin. I have even given folks that can turn tips on making themselves a burnisher. NEVER have I said, "hey, purchase one of my burnishers that I spent a good deal of time and research developing and then turn identical ones to sell on ebay as your own design..." Not once. It happened though. On August 4th, 2011 Mr. Richard Loy of Herriman, Utah spoke to me on the phone and purchased one of my HMS Burnishers, a few weeks later he purchased a dremel burnisher as well. I recall speaking to him with tips on burnishing, etc and have receipts showing the purchases. On December 24, 2011 Mr. Loy, aka highcountryoutfitter on ebay began selling replicas of my specific burnishers. He made no attempt to alter the design or to contact me regarding selling them or to give me credit for the design. In other words, he is a THIEF and a LIAR and I feel that folks should know what kind of person they could potentially be dealing with. Here is a link to one of the ebay listings in question: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leather-burnisher-leather-tool-cocobolo-11-/290656674647?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ac7ce357 Thank you Sylvia for bringing this to my attention. Chris Quote Chris Three Mutts Customs Leather - http://www.threemuttscustoms.com
Members Sylvia Posted January 13, 2012 Members Report Posted January 13, 2012 I am so outraged by this that I am making a post. Should the Admins feel the need to delete it, so be it but I need to get this off my chest. On December 24, 2011 Mr. Loy, aka highcountryoutfitter on ebay began selling replicas of my specific burnishers. He made no attempt to alter the design or to contact me regarding selling them or to give me credit for the design. In other words, he is a THIEF and a LIAR and I feel that folks should know what kind of person they could potentially be dealing with. Here is a link to one of the ebay listings in question: http://www.ebay.com/...=item43ac7ce357 Thank you Sylvia for bringing this to my attention. Chris You are welcome. I certainly won't get one from him since he clearly has no ethics. Quote A teacher pointed at me with a ruler and said "At the end of this ruler is an idiot." I got detention when I asked "Which end?"
LNLeather Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Wow Chris, I think I'd be pretty p----d off if it were me, Especially since you were so good as to give him instructions on how to make it. What he has done is just plain wrong.... In so many ways! Too bad there isn't a way to let every one here at Leatherworker.net know about this guy. Hey, how about you put yours up on ebay, for less..... and make it clear that the design is all yours! YOu can be sure if I need another burnisher I will get it from you! Quote ~Cheryl There are many things in life that will catch your eye, but only a few will catch your heart... pursue those...
robertmeco Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Wow Chris, I think I'd be pretty p----d off if it were me, Especially since you were so good as to give him instructions on how to make it. What he has done is just plain wrong.... In so many ways! Too bad there isn't a way to let every one here at Leatherworker.net know about this guy. Hey, how about you put yours up on ebay, for less..... and make it clear that the design is all yours! YOu can be sure if I need another burnisher I will get it from you! +1 Quote
Contributing Member Ferg Posted January 13, 2012 Contributing Member Report Posted January 13, 2012 Chris, You have learned the hard way that you give no one information about manufacturing a specific product. A number of years ago four or five of the companies we were dealing with asked if they could visit our shop to be more informed of how and what we made. Being naive about their actual purpose we said yes. Each of those companies essentially stole our ideas and the manufacturing processes. The satisfaction came a couple years later when at least one of them went "belly up" because they couldn't make any money doing what we did. Sad state of affairs, industrial espionage continues in the USA not just across the pond. ferg I am so outraged by this that I am making a post. Should the Admins feel the need to delete it, so be it but I need to get this off my chest. Silvia brought to my attention today some burnishers that are being sold on ebay that look almost exactly like mine. I say almost as it appears from their pictures that the party in question couldn't quite get the tips turned correctly. Any of my clients that own a "Holster Maker's Special" will recognize the difference and inferior work from the pictures. Now, normally I don't mind competition and in fact will often invite someone to give my other hobby, woodturning a spin. I have even given folks that can turn tips on making themselves a burnisher. NEVER have I said, "hey, purchase one of my burnishers that I spent a good deal of time and research developing and then turn identical ones to sell on ebay as your own design..." Not once. It happened though. On August 4th, 2011 Mr. Richard Loy of Herriman, Utah spoke to me on the phone and purchased one of my HMS Burnishers, a few weeks later he purchased a dremel burnisher as well. I recall speaking to him with tips on burnishing, etc and have receipts showing the purchases. On December 24, 2011 Mr. Loy, aka highcountryoutfitter on ebay began selling replicas of my specific burnishers. He made no attempt to alter the design or to contact me regarding selling them or to give me credit for the design. In other words, he is a THIEF and a LIAR and I feel that folks should know what kind of person they could potentially be dealing with. Here is a link to one of the ebay listings in question: http://www.ebay.com/...=item43ac7ce357 Thank you Sylvia for bringing this to my attention. Chris Quote
Members Eaglestroker Posted January 13, 2012 Members Report Posted January 13, 2012 Chris, No where near as nice as the one I bought from you. I'd buy another if you still made them. -Robert Quote
Phatdaddy Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 That sucks for sure. "Karma is a bitch" comes to mind, and I try to find comfort in that. I'd definitely drop him a line just so he knows his actions haven't gone undiscovered. (if you haven't) Maybe go as far as to send him the link to this thread. You still have my support, should I ever need anything. Kevin Quote
Members Spinner Posted January 13, 2012 Author Members Report Posted January 13, 2012 Wow Chris, I think I'd be pretty p----d off if it were me, Especially since you were so good as to give him instructions on how to make it. What he has done is just plain wrong.... In so many ways! Chris, You have learned the hard way that you give no one information about manufacturing a specific product. That's the kicker here...if I had given this individual information on making his own, it would be my bad and I wouldn't have a whole lot of room to complain. However, I talked to Mr. Loy about how to use the ones he purchased, not about how to make one. He obviously used the ones he purchased as patterns for his. And then to top it off, he's charging more for them and then padding the shipping charges to boot. And yeah Cheryl, I'm pretty pissed off. The other burnisher he purchased & then stole the design for was a special request dremel burnisher and not something in my normal line up. Chris, No where near as nice as the one I bought from you. I'd buy another if you still made them. -Robert Hey Robert, I'm still making them just a little backlogged right now. Should be taking orders for the next batch early next week. Quote Chris Three Mutts Customs Leather - http://www.threemuttscustoms.com
Members Eaglestroker Posted January 13, 2012 Members Report Posted January 13, 2012 Chris, if it's not to much of a hassle PM me when your ready or send me an invoice on paypal, we've done business before. Regarding your little business endeavor, unfortunately there is absolutely nothing stopping him from doing it. It's not morally right but not everyone abides by the same codes of conduct. All you can really hope for is that you've built up enough of a fan base that time will weed his poor quality and inability to innovate out of the pack. My parents own a successful small business and I've watched them deal with these sorts of things on and off for 20 years. Quote
cleveland Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 It's one thing to use parts of a design or improve a design, it's a whole other thing to copy the exact design without asking. You could always buy one from him and then post negative feedback. Maybe we could buy one every couple months and post negative feedback? On a related note, I'd like another one from you. Is you production back up and running? Quote
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