Getting A Little Peeved.

[Sylvia]

Telling them to buy some scraps and have at it blindly would be like giving my wife a welder and pile of scrap iron and telling her to build a windmill.

LOL, Bruce.... I just love you. You are my kind of people.

[electrathon]

I have been corrected in PM by pete. "Ambassador means I've contributed monetarily to the forum"

Hmm, I always thought an ambassador was one who was here to make others feel welcome, greeted, desired.

Contributing members are those who have donated money to keep things going.

Edit to add: This is the closest definition I could find for ambassador.

An authorized messenger or representative.

I think this is why this thread headed in a bad direction so fast. An authorized agent of this forum did not represent it in a friendly and inviting way. The forum was represented by virtue of the title and bad things were said to those who know less. This is a place of teaching and learning. We are all both teachers and students. Hopefully through time all here will be less student and more teacher. That is, unless we run off all the students since they are not smart enough to learn from us. Then we will end up with a group of old people who all know everything and a dead forum.

Old timers likely remember where the roots of this forum started and how it grew into what it is and not what it came from. Everyone is welcome here, not just those that pay to get in.

Edited May 30, 2012 by electrathon

[electrathon]

LOL, Bruce.... I just love you. You are my kind of people.

Bruce,

I want to add too. You have always stood as a shining example of whom I would like to be as talented as and who seems to have a positive grasp on life.

Aaron

[Mike516]

OK everybody. I quit ..........Didn't mean to cause a firestorm, hurt peoples feelings, or imply that I am so good that I don't need to ask questions anymore.

But I'm not buying the cost of scrap or computer confusion argument either. If you simply OWN a computer then a $3.00 bag of scraps doesn't constitute a "burden on you wallet" Especially if you are asking while using a $10 utility knife, reading a $12 Stohlman entry level book, and worried about ruining $40 of leather.

Come on folk, I'm not being arrogant in the least. I'm simply saying that many of these questions are common sense and have nothing to do with leather being the medium.

ASK ASK ASK! Check out my posts. I have asked many question in the past and have spent a lot of time answering posts. I have no problem with this- it's one of the best parts of the great forum.

end of transmission

respectfully to ALL

pete

I thought it was funny that this post started with; "OK everybody. I quit"

But yea, Bruce I agree with the last couple of people, you're a good guy. I actually thought moderators and ambassadors were pretty much the same thing. I was surprised when I saw Pete was an ambassador but I'm glad you all straightened that out. I wasn't going to ask lest it be deemed to be a dumb question

[pete]

Apparently I have offended EVERYONE on this forum and have disgraced every ambassador.

To all I apologize and will will no longer post.

pete

ps- I have contributed to this forum financially.

pps- thanks to Bruce,Troy,Bob, and others for having helped me with past questions.

[Mike516]

I can only speak for myself, but I accept your apology. And I wouldn't say you've disgraced EVERY ambassador

So how about them Yankees, huh?

[Cyberthrasher]

Don't worry Pete - you haven't offended EVERYONE. I've made the same complaints in other forums before (that I'm basically a volunteer moderator in) and I got sorted out pretty quick the same way. So, I know where you come from. That's actually why I've changed my view slightly and tried to adapt because the folks over there made me realize that I "Might" be wrong..... Ok, I admit I was a little wrong.

[pete]

thank you Mike. I appreciate it.

pete

[electrathon]

Apparently I have offended EVERYONE on this forum and have disgraced every ambassador.

To all I apologize and will will no longer post.

pete

ps- I have contributed to this forum financially.

pps- thanks to Bruce,Troy,Bob, and others for having helped me with past questions.

Pete,

I feel you have missed the point. I have not heard anyone tell you not to post, just not to be mean in posting.

If the noob's stop asking questions then there will be very little posted. I really doubt that there is almost anything that has to do with leather not already posted. The forum could just be locked and a big sign posted, "USE THE SEARCH". All of the knowledge to the world is already contained within. It would be aesy and time convenient to keep up then.

[Sylvia]

thank you Mike. I appreciate it.

pete

I accept your apology too, Pete.

Going forward let us all try to keep our thoughts forum posts... positive, informative and fun. Negativity only breeds negativity..

So to bring a smile back to your face.... Mr. Jerry Reed... "Trying Stuff On."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjJN1QKAXZs

[K-Man]

The search feature on most forums is frustrating for folks. As mentioned previously, if you've got a noob who doesn't even know what the correct terms are that they should really be putting in the search box, then it's just excacerbated when they can't find the answers to their questions. Now granted, there are probably a gazillion plus threads about which sewing machine should I buy for what I want to make, but I see a lot of the same people responding to those inquiries the same every time.

I can see both sides of the coin here. For me personally, I learn best by reading/researching/asking questions, then watching someone do it, then by my doing it. A great majority of the time now, I don't have the opportunity to watch someone do it. I've seen instances here where knowledgeable people do not want to share that skill/knowledge. It's a shame really, almost selfish in a sense IMO.

I don't know if it might help to pin a "search help" topic at the top of each category of the different forum sections. Put things in there with the noob in mind, i.e., the correct terms that they are looking/searching for within that category, and other things that are commonly searched for within that category. Give instruction on how to use the search function itself in order for them to garner the best results. It might help some find their answers without posting the "how/where/what" threads.

[HARVEY]

Apparently I have offended EVERYONE on this forum and have disgraced every ambassador.

To all I apologize and will will no longer post.

pete

ps- I have contributed to this forum financially.

pps- thanks to Bruce,Troy,Bob, and others for having helped me with past questions.

Pete, Add me to the group not offended. Even though expressed differently than I may express it, I have zero problem with your candor.

Maybe I can start a new thread by saying what else ticks me off is a recital of people's medical ailments and/or financial conditions. We all have these issues to one degree or another. But I for one really do not want a recitation of a person's medical history (or their spouses, or their animal's) and I don't want to hear about personal economics. Costs of leather, tools, etc., . . . OK. So call me insensitive too, but I just flat-out don't want to hear it. Join forums where THOSE are the topics, but not a leather forum.

By the by, is there a Curmudgeon's Forum? Can we start one here??

[ironhead13]

I don't want to read about your peeves likes or dislikes or what you do or do not want to read about. This is a leather site, I came here to read about leather.

[Rodw]

Pete, Add me to the group not offended. Even though expressed differently than I may express it, I have zero problem with your candor.

Maybe I can start a new thread by saying what else ticks me off is a recital of people's medical ailments and/or financial conditions. We all have these issues to one degree or another. But I for one really do not want a recitation of a person's medical history (or their spouses, or their animal's) and I don't want to hear about personal economics. Costs of leather, tools, etc., . . . OK. So call me insensitive too, but I just flat-out don't want to hear it. Join forums where THOSE are the topics, but not a leather forum.

By the by, is there a Curmudgeon's Forum? Can we start one here??

Harvey, I believe you are being unfair to Sylvia. She was using her economic situation to defend why something that seems inconsequential to Pete was not the case for everyone. Yes these are hard times and everyone is suffering, but some suffer more than others. Please show a little kindness you grumpy old goat! LOL And yes, I'm trying to be funny. This has gotten very serious and I hope there are no hurt feelings. We should all just move on.

I had a thought last night about something that might help.

Maybe we could pin a post somewhere that says something like:

Basic steps to working with Leather:

1. Select the leather for your project. Info on this can be found in the (blank) forum.

2. Case your leather. Info on this can be found in the gallery under Bobby's Tips (I think that's where it was)

3. Tool your leather if you so desire. Info on this can be found in the (blank) forum.

4. Dye your project (optional). Info on this can be found (here).

5. Assemble your project. Info on sewing can be found (here) and info on riveting, snaps, and grommets can be found (here).

6. Finish your project. Info on painting, antiquing, etc. can be found (here).

I'm totally making this up. I don't know what all the steps are or what order they would be in, but you get the idea. This would help a lot of us new folks and keep the Old Guard from having to answer the same questions over and over again. Of course this might lead to even more questions, but it's a starting place anyway.

Just my $0.02

[George B]

As a "noob" I have found this forum to be a regular, bubbling fountain of information and appreciate every bit of knowledge I've gleamed.

The forum's search function on the other hand has been problematic for me. I'll search the forum and get back the "nothing found" page. Then I search Google and most of the time it shows lots of results found in this forum that I just searched and found nothing. I now search google first to find the results I want here and cut through all the wasted time trying to word my search criteria correctly for the forums search function.

I have had some questions answered by those with more experience and appreciate it. I have also had the "why not just search the forum" answers from those that take the time to write a response but not the time to actually answer the question or point me in the right direction to find the information myself. I guess that is expected when some one tries to get information for free.

I can see both sides of this debate. I have used tons of scrap leather figuring things out on my own and I have asked questions when the solution evaded me.

I figure if someone does not want to answer a "noob's" question they simply move on and do not hit the reply button. But, to get worked up enough that they take the time to knock the "noob" down a notch with a negative or useless comment makes no sense to me.

Maybe it's time for them to take a break, sit back and contemplate why they feel so strongly against "stupid noob questions", I guess they were born with all the info they needed and never had to ask for someone's help.

You cannot teach stupid, but asking a question is not stupidity it is simply someone trying to pull themselves out of ignorance. Why keep ignorant people ignorant and then rant against them?

Once again, I thank everyone who took the time to help me here.

[DoubleC]

As someone who's still in the situation Sylvia's trying to pull out of, I was offended by Harvey but for about 5 secs. He always has the option of not reading what I write. I've received so much help on here that without it I'd be out of business and I'm not even completely started yet. I don't really get bothered by people who don't understand some of us don't have a Tandy store, and couldn't afford the costs of a project if we did. $3.00 scraps? LOL that shows how long it's been since someone bought scraps. I was fortunate enough to have a good person on here send me scraps, and a lot of other things too. I'm in a better position now than then so I'm sending things to a kids summer camp. It's all one big circle for me, you get help, then you give it. All of this being said I still don't want Pete to quit posting. I think there's room for all of us here, we noobs and the learned folk. Has to be with the vast number of posts that could be searched if anyone could figure out how :-) Cheryl

[pete]

OK all. I started this so I get to finish it. Points and criticisms read and accepted-gratefully I might add.

What say we all go to the D.Q. and split a Blizzard.

Thanks again to all- Let's play nice.......

over and out

most respectfully to ALL...

pete

[HARVEY]

OK all. I started this so I get to finish it. Points and criticisms read and accepted-gratefully I might add.

What say we all go to the D.Q. and split a Blizzard.

Thanks again to all- Let's play nice.......

over and out

most respectfully to ALL...

pete

Pete,

Now you're talkin' !!

Harvey

[Cyberthrasher]

What say we all go to the D.Q. and split a Blizzard.

Yummmmmm. I'll tell them you said to put it on your tab

[skippy]

i have actually left forums,and distanced myself from forums because of this very attitude of,noobs,and use the search button.

if you cant ask a question on a forum then why bother joining one.what is the point of a forum,if not for sharing info. if you dont like seeing noobs ask questions then dont read them.

i havent asked many questions on here,because of my experience with other forums and "communities".

sorry if i seem a bit peeved myself,but im sick of the "elites" that know everything ,condemning those that are new.

[HellfireJack]

HA!!! Watching people tell other people not to make posts about people making posts is hilarious stuff.

If you don't want to read complaints then don't read complaints!! LOL! If you don't want to read questions then don't read questions! If you don't want to read opinions don't read opinions! If you don't want to read just don't read!!!!!!

You're all doing the same exact thing to Pete as Pete did!! Complain complain complain!!!!!! Hurt feelings!! Poncy attitudes!!! Cry!!

LOL! This stuff is too funny!! Someone get me a beer and some popcorn. I hope they don't lock this any time soon.

[ironhead13]

why not just delete the thread all together. keeping it open will invite further comments that are not needed. Locking it may give others who run across it a bad impression. It has nothing to do with leather, not helpful in any way to anyone regarding leather, or how to use or navigate the site or anything. Or move it to the about us sections, since technically this thread is a conversation regarding leatherwork.

[Mudruck]

I think the point Pete was trying make is just to try and see what happens. A person doesn't need to have their hand held every step of the way. People are going to screw up even with somebody standing right by their side and being told every move to make. Face it folks your going to screw things up it's part of life. 30 something years ago i gave a guy a bid on painting a house. He took it and the first brush stroke i new i had messed up. I would up painting that house for around 2.00 a hour. That was lesson that has stuck with me ever sense. Same thing doing leather work you learn from mistakes and they will stick with you.

I try to help people on here and where i live and i've seen people in both places that were scared to cut a side / back/ double shoulder cause they were scared they would mess up. It happens but you learn from it. Espically if it's coming out their pocket. Yes i know things cost a lot and you don't want to waste your money cause it's tight. Same here, ever day of my life money is tight and yes i mess up sometimes but i try to learn from it.

Yea, I agree. Give it a try, you're going to mess up eventually and then you take that piece, place it somewhere where you're going to see it the next time to attempt it and use it as a reminder what NOT to do. Early on, I did the same thing with a holster/belt set that I though I would be able to 'kick out real quick'.. ended up costing me money after it was delivered. I learned a very valuable lesson that time. Another time I built a tank bib from a rough pattern and didn't know exactly how it fit on the bike and after getting it all done we went to put it on to find that the seat covered up some of the design... back to doing it again and once again I learned another lesson.

Yup, you're going to screw up and yup, it is going to cost you somehow.. but that is part of the learning process.

[LNLeather]

When I found leatherworker.net I just started reading, reading, reading.

What a wonderful place this is with all folks sharing what they can.

Once I joined and started posting, I remember having someone refer me

to the search feature and I did not feel insulted by this at all.

I was thankful because I didn't even know it was there and how helpful it could be…

Since then I use the search feature really quite often.

FYI - Here is how I find the best results...

Up in the upper right corner of this page - is a search box and on the right side of that is the word Advanced.

I always use the Advanced choice, so click on that.

Now there are 2 ways I used this Advanced feature. I search by Subject or by Author.

• Subject - The way I have found works the best is to use just one word (the simplest) like airbrush, basketweave, case, checkbook, dye, edge,

fingercarving, finish, graphics, holster, ink, knife, lacing, modeling, pattern, sheath, sewing, sharpening, swivel knife, tooling, vinegaroon, wallet, etc…

• Then just scroll down and click on the choice for -------> Display results As posts

• Then click on Search now. There will be all kinds of the posts for this subject and it will show those with pictures......

there may be a lot of posts that are not relevant, but I end up finding things I had not even thought of…

• Author - If you find a post with really good information, or really great photos of something that interests you,

take that authors name and enter it in the Find author line.

• Then just scroll down and click on the choice for -------> Display results As posts

• Then click on Search now. Not only will you get their posts, but pictures they have posted too.

This is a Grrrrrreat way to find all of the posts available (limited to the first 200) - about anything you might be interested in…

ps.

Some words need to be split up, or put back together like basketweave or basket weave, fingercarving or finger carving. I have found the best results are by just using one word closest to what you are looking for, and then just start skimming the results. It is pretty easy to find the posts you are looking for this way. The more you read the more you learn how much more there is to learn.

*****This place is the best! And remember after reading you must practice practice practice…

Thank you to all of the folks that have helped and shared their pictures and knowledge here at leatherworker.net.

[Mike516]

Ok, now I'm confused. What's the difference between an "Ambassador" and a "Contributing Member".