Techsew Ga5-1R

[Vikefan]

Does anyone have any knowledge or have used these machines? They are on sale I see...

AKviking64

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

The GA5-1R is the modern version of the Singer 45k89. You will get as many opinions of the machine as there are people on this board.

The 45k series and similar from other manufacturers are probably the most numerous machines built over the last 100 years for sewing up to around 1/2" of leather. Look up the recent posts of JimSaddler as he has some excellent commentary, from a man who has used them for decades, on the use of this style of machine. If what you want is a simple, inexpensive machine then it may be the answer for you.

Until the advent of the relatively inexpensive 441 clone this is probably the machine that you would have bought without a second thought but these days the decision is more complicated. My personal feeling is that there is still a place in the workshop for one of these. Naturally I feel the same about the 441, 29k etc., etc..........

Does anyone have any knowledge or have used these machines? They are on sale I see...

AKviking64

[Art]

AK,

Like the old 45, they are bottom feed only machines and require toothed feed dogs and relatively high presser foot pressure to move heavy stuff. The dogs will tend to mark the back of smooth leather and the feet can leave tracks, especially on smooth veg tan. Textured chrome tan is usually not a problem, top or bottom. Tracks on veg tan can be removed with a slicker. Marks from feed dogs may be kind of permanent.

If you have the kind of work this machine will support then OK, but if you do general work with a lot of veg tan, go with a 441 clone with the triple or sometimes called unison feed where you have needle feed, sometimes bottom feed, and walking feet. Dogs can be smooth, feet can be smooth and the needle does most of the work. You can run lighter presser foot pressures for less marking.

Art

[mncarpenter]

I have seen a lot of discussion re: the Ga5-1R, especially about the feed dogs marking the leather, but have never seen it illustrated, either in any of the videos I've seen, nor have I ever seen anyone post photos of the underside and the marks. Anyone have photos or video showing the marking? I've mulled this machine over many times, mostly because of the price point.By the way, my Tippman Boss leaves marks on top...and yes, I've adjusted the foot pressure until I'm blue in the face, no marks, material "jumps, no jump-leaves marks.

[CowboyBob]

Here's one I took of the marks left by our Cowboy 2500 machine(same as GA-5).

Bob

[Techsew Ron]

I have seen a lot of discussion re: the Ga5-1R, especially about the feed dogs marking the leather, but have never seen it illustrated, either in any of the videos I've seen, nor have I ever seen anyone post photos of the underside and the marks. Anyone have photos or video showing the marking? I've mulled this machine over many times, mostly because of the price point.By the way, my Tippman Boss leaves marks on top...and yes, I've adjusted the foot pressure until I'm blue in the face, no marks, material "jumps, no jump-leaves marks.

Here you go, and for all others interested:

Top:

Bottom:

Its been mentioned in previous threads that the bottom marks can sometimes be rubbed out. I think Wiz should be able to clarify this. Most of our customers who purchase this machine don't seem to mind it because the bottom side is not exposed. If so, I would recommend a heavy duty walking foot machine such as the Techsew 4100 or Techsew 5100.

Let me know if you have any other questions about our machines.

Thanks,

Ron

[Wizcrafts]

Its been mentioned in previous threads that the bottom marks can sometimes be rubbed out. I think Wiz should be able to clarify this. Most of our customers who purchase this machine don't seem to mind it because the bottom side is not exposed. If so, I would recommend a heavy duty walking foot machine such as the Techsew 4100 or Techsew 5100.

Let me know if you have any other questions about our machines.

Thanks,

Ron

I have promoted these machines in the past, for middle weight sewing, to people lacking the funds to buy a 441 clone, or better machine. When I got into leatherwork and sewing, in the mid-1980s, the Juki 441 hadn't been released yet. The Adler 205 had just arrived, but very few companies could afford the steep price tag. So, I made do with machines, like the Singer 45K, with a roller on top and feed dog on the bottom.

After sewing items together, I used a modeling spoon, or slicker, or Cobbler's hammer to smooth out the tooth and pucker marks. I don't recall hearing any customers complain about tooth marks or needle puckers on the back.

Some users of the CB2500 and GA5-1 will lay the sewn piece on a clean steel bar, place another clean steel bar on top, then pound with a mallet until the marks are subdued. If you are sewing harness or bridle leather it is much easier to rub out marks and puckers.

For those who are able to purchase a 441 clone, like the ones that Techsew Ronnie, Cowboy Bob and Cobra Steve sell, these are better machines for sewing 1/2 inch, or more. They have greater capacity for thicker materials and heavier pressure springs. Having two feet splits the load across a wider path, as the needle ascends. The inside foot is directly over the stitch line and needle and exerts pressure where is really needs to be. Bottom feeders may have a split toe foot, or single toe, but there is always a gap between the toe and the needle. That gap is where the failure to hold down the work can occur.

On the other hand (she wore a glove!), if you mainly sew things ranging from 3/8 inch up to 7/16 inch, a GA5-1R, or CB2500 may serve you well. If your straps are lined with suede, nobody will notice the tracks on the bottom. There may be a noticeable path on top, depending on how much you crank down the presser foot spring.

Finally, these middle weight bottom feeders are not geared towards light weight sewing. The needles are not normally stocked in smaller sizes required to sew with light thread. Who wants to use a #23 needle to sew with #69 thread? Nobody! The holes will be ginormous! But, if your work is mostly with #138 through #346 thread, and is usually between 3/8 to 7/16 inch, these machines may be right for you. You can probably raise the foot to sew 1/2 inch, but the pressure spring may not be able to hold down the leather as the needle ascends.

I know some forum members have bought GA5-1R machines from Ronnie and CB2500s from Bob. Maybe some of them will read this and talk about their opinions of those machines, and the work they are doing with them.

[mncarpenter]

The marks I see in the photos, thanks guys for posting them by the way, are more pronounced then those left by my Tippman, but by the same token are on the bottom. However, making holsters and trying to acheive a high quality of finish, needing to spend the time to rub out the marks brings the profitability margin down a bunch, not to mention still left with the possibility of still showing marks. The marks left by the boss largely dissapear when pressing the holster and when boning. whats left is usually fairly easily rubbed out. I think I'll save my pennies for a while longer and look at a 441 clone in the near future. I do appreciate the photos, , now I can quit vacillating...

[Wizcrafts]

My solution, back when, was to purchase a Union Lockstitch machine. Lacking any feed dog, having a jump foot and needle feed, it did the trick for giving a finished result on both sides, with the thickest thread available at the time (#554). I'm now on my second ULS, which I am trying to sell to raise money to fix my car for an extended trip to Lompock and Azzuza. My Cowboy CB4500 (a 441 clone) has taken over the job of heavy sewing, with #277 or #346 thread, so I don't need that harness machine anymore.

[mogwild]

Don't forget good used machines. We acquired 3 heavy stitchers for the price of a new 441 clone, I'm not putting down a 441 clone in any way, shape, or form, in fact, I want one, eventually (next year, plan is to drive down to that big show in Wyoming and purchase one, I want to check out the show, and that will save on shipping, 2 birds, one stone so to speak)

Anyway. The machines we purchased were all in good working order, 2 of them have paid for themselves twice over, these old machines were built for several lifetimes worth of work, we were able to test them before buying, as they were setup and working, and one of them turned out to be a diamond in the rough so to speak. We had to drive 4 hours to get them, but it was well worth it, keep an eye on the local Kijiji, Craigs list, whatever, we waited 6 months and stumbled into all 3 virtually at once.

You also have to not get machine crazy, we looked at and turned down 4 others in months before finding these, if its not the right machine, your unable to test it, or its severely worn, walk, others will come up.

I'm severly tempted by Wiz's ULS machine, its on my list of machines to eventually own, and you know its been skill-fully maintained and never abused...that 441 clone might have to wait another year Shipping that sucker to Canada would be the only pinch

[Jbarv Bulls]

Im pretty sure my toro 3000 would run screaming from trying to sew through a penny .... thats pretty cool.

[mogwild]

I seen it on the Campbell video. Had to try it on the Randall

[Techsew Ron]

I seen it on the Campbell video. Had to try it on the Randall

your needle can't be in very good shape right now !!

[mogwild]

Needles fine, it doesn't penetrate the material It just reacheds up though the hole after and grabs the thread.

The awl does awl the work (zing!), and it needed changed anyway. Though, it didn't look any different after going though the penny.

Edited July 13, 2012 by mogwild

[Tim Schroeder]

I have a GA5-1 for lack of funds for a 441 clone. I ground the feed dog down enough to knock down the sharp edge on the teeth. I also cut off the presser foot tension nut. There was to much pressure to start with. The only problem I have found is stitch length because of the bottom feed. With a little practice I'm sure I could produce better results. I have another machine (basically the same as Cobra class 18) that is triple feed and it produces a really consistent stitch length. One day soon I'll have one of the 441 clones. Here is a picture of the backside of a notepad I made. I didn't rub out any marks. Like I said about the stitch length, it was hard to keep it consistent. This was the first project I had sewn on this machine.

Thanks Tim

Edited July 14, 2012 by Tim S

[jimsaddler]

Quick comment on the 45K 25 Clones.

Even stitches are achieved by Operater Skill! Hand pressure is applied fore(rt hand) and aft (lft hand) to make sure the Materials are fed through evenly.

Buff the Feed Dog teeth very well and the Dog won't pierce the underside of the work. Then simply rub the marks with a piece of heavy canvas to rub them out. For Skirting Leather damp it slightly then rub it out. These Machines were developed for use with proper Veg Tanned Leathers like Bridle or Harness which don't mark very badly. Lets face it Veg embossing is not properly finished Leather, so it is expected that there will be some finishing involved before it is finished for use.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

I have a GA5-1 for lack of funds for a 441 clone. I ground the feed dog down enough to knock down the sharp edge on the teeth. I also cut off the presser foot tension nut. There was to much pressure to start with. The only problem I have found is stitch length because of the bottom feed. With a little practice I'm sure I could produce better results. I have another machine (basically the same as Cobra class 18) that is triple feed and it produces a really consistent stitch length. One day soon I'll have one of the 441 clones. Here is a picture of the backside of a notepad I made. I didn't rub out any marks. Like I said about the stitch length, it was hard to keep it consistent. This was the first project I had sewn on this machine.

Thanks Tim

[Tim Schroeder]

Yes, I agree on the operator skill part. I will probably have to use this machine for some time. When I first tried this machine the marks were more like cuts and could not be rubbed out. I didn't hesitate to start working on the feeddog rite away since you can replace it pretty easily. Cutting down the presser foot tension nut made a big difference. The lightest setting I felt was way to much pressure. I have ground and filed the feeddog down so much that it requires a little more skill than normal. I can just hold the material and the feeddog would just slip and it will sew in the same hole. But as you can see in the picture there is not any marks at all. I am completely satisfied with those results. I try to think I'm a perfectionist and one bad stitch will drive me crazy. If I hadn't been to lazy to build a support table to help hold it up it might have helped. No excuses, you should be able to make this machine work fine, especially for the price. I paid $600 with shipping for just the machine. I mounted it on a spare piece of Corion and can just set it in the hole my other machine sets in. I can change my machines out in just a couple of minutes.

Quick comment on the 45K 25 Clones.

Even stitches are achieved by Operater Skill! Hand pressure is applied fore(rt hand) and aft (lft hand) to make sure the Materials are fed through evenly.

Buff the Feed Dog teeth very well and the Dog won't pierce the underside of the work. Then simply rub the marks with a piece of heavy canvas to rub them out. For Skirting Leather damp it slightly then rub it out. These Machines were developed for use with proper Veg Tanned Leathers like Bridle or Harness which don't mark very badly. Lets face it Veg embossing is not properly finished Leather, so it is expected that there will be some finishing involved before it is finished for use.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

[Wizcrafts]

You could have just dipped liquid, hardening tool coating into the teeth to fill the gaps. I use Tool Magic, available from craft stores. When it wears off I redip the parts.

[Dirck]

I've had a GA5-1 (no R) for a couple of years and ran a lot of leather, canvas and nylon strap through it.

It can mark the leather, but if you adjust the pressure for the thickness, when changing thickness, it will be minimal to none. Of course the lighter the pressure the more responsible you become for the feed.

I had never thought about taking the sharp edges off the dogs, but I have tried masking take to the side of the stitching and it worked.

Other than that the machine has been a horse.

[gainesvilleman]

I received my GA5-1R on Thursday February 6, 2014, today Friday open it up and put the table together and set up the servo and the machine. The presser foot lift is 3/4". I sewed through 4 layers of 8-9 oz. veg/tanned leather with no problem right out of the box, did not see any marks on top or bottom so far. Played with the stitch length seemed to work ok, the reverse worked fine also. I was sewing 277 bonded nylon on top and 138 on bottom. I'm looking forward to sewing on it, my PFAFF 1245 will be my back up machine now.

I welcome any and all comments, I do not post very often but I do read and learn from Leather workers network.

[gainesvilleman]

I bought a GA5-1R, and am very pleased with it, it will do a lot more that my PFAFF 1245 won't do, it does have botom marks, but like someone else stated it does not bother me at all. Once I finish the leather it is barely visible.

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

There is a Chinese machine called the GR1 which is rather crude but essentially a beefed up short arm GA5 and it is sold in several versions including one that will sew up to 3/4" with the only difference being the height the presser foot bar is set at!