Support A Fellow Leathersmith Reach Her Goals

[CicadaLeatherDesigns]

Hello,

My name is Mia. I have loved this forum for all the help its given me. So much to learn! In order to make my business into what I dream I need some support. I have aKickstarter campaign to raise the necessary funds. My goal is $2000. If I do not reach my goal I do not get any money. The funds will go towards buying desperately needed new tools and American-made supplies.

If you back my campaign you get awesome leathergoods. Also you get a shout out on Twitter and Facebook. And your name and website will be listed as contributors on my site.

With your support you can make this happen. A dollar helps. Sharing on Facebook, a tweet, or a conversation with a friend all help. Lets get the word out! Thank you very much. I cant do this without people like you.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/267599142/cicada-leather-co-artisan-leathergoods-made-in-ame

[Tzalabak]

I honestly wish you the best of luck, but, I think I remember there being something in the Kickstart ToS about funding having to go directly towards a specific product, not just an overall business start-up fund or for getting supplies.

I genuinely hope that they have changed their rules to make that a more accessible goal for people, but I think they might take issue with your goal.

Admittedly, I am remembering this from looking through their ToS from several months ago, so my info might be outdated.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Tzalabak

[Ferg]

Hi Mia,

I know absolutely nothing about "kick starter".

When I began my foray into the art of leather my income was $72.00 per month. Admittedly, that was a long time ago. The point I am making is, I had little to nothing as far as money. I did have a lot of " Get-up and Go". I ask for nothing. My question is this, " Why do so many expect so much monetarily?"I have no problem with offering info, I do have problem with asking for handouts.

BTW: I have given several folks that were down and out, materials and tools.

ferg

1342031372[/url]' post='256027']

Hello,

My name is Mia. I have loved this forum for all the help its given me. So much to learn! In order to make my business into what I dream I need some support. I have aKickstarter campaign to raise the necessary funds. My goal is $2000. If I do not reach my goal I do not get any money. The funds will go towards buying desperately needed new tools and American-made supplies.

If you back my campaign you get awesome leathergoods. Also you get a shout out on Twitter and Facebook. And your name and website will be listed as contributors on my site.

With your support you can make this happen. A dollar helps. Sharing on Facebook, a tweet, or a conversation with a friend all help. Lets get the word out! Thank you very much. I cant do this without people like you.

http://www.kickstart...ods-made-in-ame

Edited July 11, 2012 by 50 years leather

[CicadaLeatherDesigns]

Thanks for the 'best of luck'! Kickstarter reviews all projects before they go live. They not only approved my campaign but honored it as a Staff Pick. But thanks for the heads up.

I honestly wish you the best of luck, but, I think I remember there being something in the Kickstart ToS about funding having to go directly towards a specific product, not just an overall business start-up fund or for getting supplies.

I genuinely hope that they have changed their rules to make that a more accessible goal for people, but I think they might take issue with your goal.

Admittedly, I am remembering this from looking through their ToS from several months ago, so my info might be outdated.

[CicadaLeatherDesigns]

I am not asking for handouts. Kickstarter is a wonderful community of people who enjoy supporting artists and musicians. In exchange for backing a project, a person receives rewards including products, publicity and the deep gratitude from creative folks. Its not about handouts but rather about encouraging and funding artistic endeavors that otherwise would go unnoticed. In today' s world, part of "get-up and go" includes the social media and included in that is crowd-funding. I think its a wonderful thing that despite the depression we are in, people still want to see the little guy make it.

Mia Barrett

Hi Mia,

I know absolutely nothing about "kick starter".

When I began my foray into the art of leather my income was $72.00 per month. Admittedly, that was a long time ago. The point I am making is, I had little to nothing as far as money. I did have a lot of " Get-up and Go". I ask for nothing. My question is this, " Why do so many expect so much monetarily?"I have no problem with offering info, I do have problem with asking for handouts.

BTW: I have given several folks that were down and out, materials and tools.

ferg

[Tzalabak]

Thanks for the 'best of luck'! Kickstarter reviews all projects before they go live. They not only approved my campaign but honored it as a Staff Pick. But thanks for the heads up.

Ahh, I'm glad to hear that it is approved. I didn't know how they did the approval process, so, it's good to hear that they had already had it approved, hehe.

[Art]

Hi Mia,

I think I'm in with Ferg on this. Personally, I generally do not send money unless I know exactly how it is spent. As Ferg said, we have never seen an outright solicitation for funds here on Leatherworker.net. We have been asked for personal support, and support for a business, but not funding. There are a few folks here who will support someone with tools or even cash at our own discretion, but that support is never solicited (some folks make it hard on us and won't even put their names and location in their profiles, but eventually they give us a clue).

Everyone is hurting in this economy, but if you want to do serious leatherwork, it can be done. I would recommend you post your work here and accept help from the pros that hang around here in just about every discipline. Their advice and guidance are worth far more than $2000. We have folks on here that can do as much with 3 or 4 modelers as I can with a pretty fair complement of Bob Beard tools. Leatherworker.net is the most free flowing resource there is, drop by often and show us your work.

Art

[cem]

Mia I hope you do well I know how kickstarter works I've followed a few things there myself and was quite pleased when quite a few achieved their goals, but I also agree with Ferg and Art in that here isn't probably the best place to try and round up some funding. One problem is a lot of people here know how to make the products you are pledging and will make it themselves before going to someone else to do it.

Information on the other hand is something we give freely and love to help with, I would stick to advertising your campaign outside of facebook and twitter to forums where people like to buy handmade stuff not necessarily make them. With the things I've followed these campaigns have had the most success ie go to where the end user hangs outs. Like Art said this hasn't popped up here before but I have seen it on some Artist forums where artists are trying to drum up kickstarter funding from other artists and it didn't go down well.

So if you have any questions on how do any leather work stuff fire away we are all definitely happy to give pointers on that more than you probably need on some things.

Best wishes,

Clair

[mlapaglia]

I'm confused, It seems like you have the basic tools, and leather. You know how to stitch it. What exactly is the 2000.00 going for? Is there a list we can look at? Since you already seem to be making leather goods what is the purpose of the money?

Edited July 12, 2012 by mlapaglia

[shtoink]

A portion of the funds raised will go to developing my online store. I will purchase a camera and photography equipment so I can better represent my products. I will expand my shop on Big Cartel. Business cards, promotions, city licenses, and domain names will be purchased.

This is right from the Kick Starter page. I too have mixed feelings about this. The manager at my local Tandy store put it this way: "If you were a pool hustler, you'd have no issues beating me at pool with a broomstick even if I had a $10,000 cue." It translates into many other areas, as it's the skills that make the outcome good not necessarily the equipment. That isn't to say that better tools can't help. In other words, if the super powers were built into the suit, then anyone could be a super hero.

I think that you really risk insulting forum members by asking them for monetary help, especially when they are here giving advice and tips away for free.

It does like good intentions, just misjudgement on where to advertise. I can see the need to raise funds for domain names, hosting, website building, shopping cart, and the like, but I highly recommend using the tools and resources you currently have until it is absolutely necessary to upgrade. It comes down to optimization of the resources you have.

Don't mistake words of caution as any form of discouragement. I'd hate to see enthusiasm squelched on account of it.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. For what it's worth...

[DoubleC]

Mia, I haven't responded yet because honestly I didn't know what to say. I can't understand why you think anyone here would give you money. When I started here I didn't even have a swivel knife, and someone on here told me how to mat backgrounds with sticks, and tons of things you find around the house or yard. I had people here give me books, tools, even left over leather. Then when I got in a position where I ended up with two of something, I tried to do the same. I have no idea what that program is but if they expect you to go to strangers and raise $2000.00 I already don't think much of it. I've been working on getting a grant from Voc Rehab since last January, along with really getting a solid start to my business. To get the grant I have to have a business plan, and people on here have helped me with so many things from choosing a website design to recently market research. But if Voc told me I had to raise 12 cents of it from strangers, I wouldn't take their money.

I have a free website. Anyone can get one from google and intuit for a year. Is it what I want? No. But I can afford free. I designed my own brochures and business cards AGAIN with a lot of help here. I need a new camera, lightbox, and desktop tripod, and they are on my list, and every month I get a little something toward the eventual goal of opening the business. I have asked people opinions on the best cameras for close ups but I certainly never asked anyone to buy me one.

I don't know whether to be angry, insulted or just laugh thinking you couldn't have thought this through or was given some really poor advice. There are 3, and I'm not exaggerating, THREE charities I trust enough to actually give money. I would be having yardsales, or bake sales (well maybe not so much that with my baking ability) and returning plastic bottles, etc. if I wanted to earn money for a program like that, not asking for handouts. I'm not being mean just bluntly honest. cheryl

[HellfireJack]

You people are kidding me right? Nobody on this board besides me has heard of Kickstarter.

It's not a handout she's asking for. That's not how Kickstarter works.

It's like a venture capital service. Kickstart allows small endeavors to exchange goods and services for start up capital in promissory fashion.

It's a way to get a business off the ground without having to struggle for 5 years just to get the basic equipment to start WHILE simutaneously building a customer base.

Kickstarter has funded many great Maker projects and gives craftsmen a leg up on making it somewhere in business where they might not otherwise have a chance.

[DoubleC]

No Jack, I haven't heard of it, but why would 20 some thousand leather workers at all stages of skills want to pay for some one elses promissory goods? We would just make it ourselves or it is something we don't want. Don't you kinda see the irony? You give me money and I'll give you something leather too. That's called a business transaction, but not if you don't want it to begin with. I honestly don't understand the whole thing.

[HellfireJack]

Why would anybody want to help a fellow human being out? Gee I don't know...

Why do people bother helping you? Oh wait.. It's called kindness.

[DoubleC]

I'm not trying to fight Jack. I'm in the same situation she is with my business, probably have less than she does. But I got a hell of a lot more than I did 6 months ago, and expect to have twice as much 6 months from now. I've never asked you or anyone for money. I help who I can with the little advice i feel qualified to give at this point. I am a kind person, but that doesn't mean I hand out money I don't have to people I don't know. I'm not trying to tell you what to do. That's your decision.

[HellfireJack]

Who's fighting? I'm just pointing out that this is a way people start businesses. Even before Kickstarter this is how many people start businesses.

And again.. She's not asking for a handout. She's not asking anyone to just give her money. She's offering promised goods and services in exchange for start up capital. Why beat her up for it? She already has 9 backers and will probably have a solid customer base if her plans go through and YOUR venture could be listed on her site for a couple bucks of kindness. Either you don't want to help her or you do. There's no need to give her an earful about why you don't like the way she's chosen to start her business.

People who don't want to answer our questions here just don't answer them. Can you imagine how we'd feel if they sat us down and told us why each time?

[Spinner]

I share the same sentiments above. The problem lies in the fact that you are asking for help/crowd-funding/monetary assistance whatever you want to call it from folks you plan to directly compete against in the global leatherworking market with the same products that literally everyone has made at one point in their hobby/career and many likely still make. Not to mention the upteen different mass producers and big box stores they already have to compete against for those sales. That aside, you mention the help you have already received from the forum however you have yet to make any contributions to the forum (verbally or monetarily) to help others or the site itself before asking us to assist you in this way. To put it mildly, this post is brazen and simply inconsiderate.

There's my 2 cents regarding the post itself, take it as you will. As for getting your business off the ground, while I won't be contributing monetarily I'll happily extend the same feedback, knowledge and advise I have shared with others in classes so you may find your way to working toward earning the business venture you're seeking...let's address the business proposal and the products separately:

Business proposal (I work in Finance for my day job so I see a number of these each year. I also run a successful leatherworking business so I know the costs of what you're looking to do.):

+ You did well in not only describing yourself and your products.

+ The pictures are good quality and you added personal notes which helps the contributor feel connected.

+ /- You outline the business wants/needs very well (camera, domain names, etc) however you don't give the same treatment to the leatherworking tools even though the proposal feels like it's more about the tools.

- The amount requested is inflated by about 25% or you aren't researching your business needs well enough to find competitive pricing on the items (or like most folks there are a couple 'want' type purchases/upgrades in there with the 'needs').

- Again, while the proposal gives the feeling that the leatherworking tools are the main point, of the wants/needs listed the business expenses are approximately 162% more than the leatherworking tool upgrade expenses based on your current product offerings. (that includes expanding your tool set to include a 10 pc set of Barry King tools, a Bearman maul, a Knipshield detail knife, an entire side of grade A Herman Oak 8oz, and dyes, buckles, rivets, etc. to create a good pile of your products).

- your representative product line-up and materials used are pretty standard fair for a leather goods website which indicates extensive competition both domestic & foreign, handmade and mass produced. At least one new/unique design would speak volumes of future potential success.

Product Offering:

I assume the reason you need to request funding is due to slow/lack of sales to finance production. As someone mentioned previously, you obviously already have tools to have produced the items listed on the websites. Wanting higher quality tools is something almost every leatherworker I know goes through, whether it be for function, beauty or speed. However, for the items you currently produce it appears you'd be better served by the addition of a small handful of additions to your toolbox rather than upgrades.

+ decent variety of general leather goods

+ marketing messages & product descriptions are well written

- For the level of refinement of your products your products appear to be overpriced, a few cases are very much so. Doing some market research on items of similar quality and materials would present price points that will be more easily justified. For one such example, some friends of mine hand make some similar products in a similar, handmade fashion from their home based shop but have made it their mission to set the bar in regards to quality and materials at premium but still reasonable prices for what the client receives: http://www.chestermox.com. Take a minute to look at the stitching and edge detailing as well as their cuts, etc. and you'll see what I expand on below.

- regarding refinement:

- the first thing someone will look at with an item like those offered is the stitching as it is the highlighted detail. I say highlighted detail because there are no other distinguishing features of the products and the stitching color is in high contrast. First thing that will be noticed is the irregular and crooked stitches. TIP: A stitching groover would be a great addition to your tool arsenal. It will help keep the stitches in line and also recess them to reduce wear. Also, the thread size seems a bit thin for a product that highlights and brings attention to the stitching in both design and product description, but that is just my opinion.

- The second thing that will be noticed are the edges. Your edges are not edged, sanded or slicked/burnished. The rough , unfinished edges will fray/tatter quite quickly under daily use and are nearly impossible to make "water resistant". While the common marketing buzzwords for this are: "natural", "rugged", "worn look"; but to those buyers with leather buying experience it simply says "unfinished". TIP: Burnishing can be done cheaply by hand with a rag, some water and soap (see Bob Park's tutorial for free here: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=18101 together with an edger and some sand paper they would create a whole new, more complete look. Powered burnishers can also be purchased but not necessary to get started.

- color selection: it appears that the buyer only has the choice of natural russet which will seriously limit sales. TIP: Just adding one or two colors would add variety (people like to have choices) and give an expanded look to your offering. Using pre-dyed leathers will cut time cost - dying your own will cut down on materials cost choose which works best for you & your shop budget.

- proper leather conditioning: while it appears from the descriptions that you have found a final finish that works well, judging from the wrinkles that formed on the folds of the wallet, the leather was not oiled well enough during construction. This will accelerate the cracking/wrinkling/tearing of the leather at the fold through use. TIP: the cheapest solution is extra virgin olive oil. Available at any grocery store, doesn't darken the leather much and will help the wrinkling issues while extending the item's useful life. Neatsfoot & Mink oil are also available options but cost more per unit.

While I don't agree with the posted request as noted in the first paragraph, hopefully you'll find the information following it helpful. I'm not being mean-spirited and simply knocking your plan & work, the information above is sincerely meant to help you in making your dream of creating a business happen. Hope you find some of it useful. Good luck!

Chris

[Spinner]

Who's fighting? I'm just pointing out that this is a way people start businesses. Even before Kickstarter this is how many people start businesses.

And again.. She's not asking for a handout. She's not asking anyone to just give her money. She's offering promised goods and services in exchange for start up capital. Why beat her up for it? She already has 9 backers and will probably have a solid customer base if her plans go through and YOUR venture could be listed on her site for a couple bucks of kindness. Either you don't want to help her or you do. There's no need to give her an earful about why you don't like the way she's chosen to start her business.

People who don't want to answer our questions here just don't answer them. Can you imagine how we'd feel if they sat us down and told us why each time?

I knew of Kickstarter before all of this and while it's a viable way to start a business the issue many have here specifically is this:

Funds are being solicited to start a business that will potentially be direct business competition for those being asked to fund it. Essentially, if funded and started with funds from any leatherworker, that donation creates an entity that very well could pull money out of that same pocket later on through lost sales.

Also, to be noted is that products don't get exchanged until the $25 mark. Until then, the reward is a note, a mention and the warm fuzzies and that does equate to a handout however one chooses to spin it.

[HellfireJack]

I knew of Kickstarter before all of this and while it's a viable way to start a business the issue many have here specifically is this:

Funds are being solicited to start a business that will potentially be direct business competition for those being asked to fund it. Essentially, if funded and started with funds from any leatherworker, that donation creates an entity that very well could pull money out of that same pocket later on through lost sales.

Also, to be noted is that products don't get exchanged until the $25 mark. Until then, the reward is a note, a mention and the warm fuzzies and that does equate to a handout however one chooses to spin it.

Every question you answer here has the same potential though. We all are literally teaching our possible future competition how to replace us here. Doesn't seem to bother anyone because we know they can only replace us if their work is better than ours or they're a better salesperson. So, only when cash is involved does it seem to actually matter and lets not pretend the goods for sale section here doesn't exist. Apparently plenty of people try to sell leather goods to other leatherworkers here. Where's the complaining on those posts? I agree that this is mostly the wrong audience for her but she's not really trying to sell us lanyards. She's trying to fund a start up. People who think she's trying to sell them leathergoods have simply missed the point.

As long as the potential rewards are stated I have no problem with what level the rewards fall under. A service is a service even if all it does is give you the right to have the warm fuzzies. It's a fairly common practice on Kickstarter.

[DoubleC]

Spinner, I am copying everything you put even though I have help with my business plan, and funding down the road, etc. You make some very good points I haven't considered yet. Thanks for posting this, it took a lot of effort and I appreciate it. Cheryl

[Ferg]

You need to read all the posts, namely mine and Art's. Many of us have helped folks on this forum with material and tools. I won't send money to anyone that I do not know. That reminds me of the guy standing at an intersection wanting money instead of a job.

ferg

Who's fighting? I'm just pointing out that this is a way people start businesses. Even before Kickstarter this is how many people start businesses.

And again.. She's not asking for a handout. She's not asking anyone to just give her money. She's offering promised goods and services in exchange for start up capital. Why beat her up for it? She already has 9 backers and will probably have a solid customer base if her plans go through and YOUR venture could be listed on her site for a couple bucks of kindness. Either you don't want to help her or you do. There's no need to give her an earful about why you don't like the way she's chosen to start her business.

People who don't want to answer our questions here just don't answer them. Can you imagine how we'd feel if they sat us down and told us why each time?

[DoubleC]

Actually I wanted to point out how most of us agreed with you and Art but you've been left out of all the comments Ferg. Thanks for stepping in again. Cheryl

[bdt46]

I must agree with the majority here! Some 44 years ago when I started in the leather business( saddles, tack, whatever), I made a deal with the bank I do business with. I don't loan money or fund businesses, and my bank doesn't do leatherwork. When one of us needs the others services, we are there for each other, and pay for what we need from each other. Has worked well for me all these years.

[Spinner]

Every question you answer here has the same potential though. We all are literally teaching our possible future competition how to replace us here. Doesn't seem to bother anyone because we know they can only replace us if their work is better than ours or they're a better salesperson. So, only when cash is involved does it seem to actually matter and lets not pretend the goods for sale section here doesn't exist. Apparently plenty of people try to sell leather goods to other leatherworkers here. Where's the complaining on those posts? I agree that this is mostly the wrong audience for her but she's not really trying to sell us lanyards. She's trying to fund a start up. People who think she's trying to sell them leathergoods have simply missed the point.

As long as the potential rewards are stated I have no problem with what level the rewards fall under. A service is a service even if all it does is give you the right to have the warm fuzzies. It's a fairly common practice on Kickstarter.

I agree Jack, every question answered does have that potential. And just to confirm, I'm not arguing either, just talking here.

So in response, asking a question on how to do something vs. kickstarter...asking how to fish vs. asking for help to create a new fish.

This is neither, it's asking for help to buy the fish store. This particular scenario is a request for venture capital to establish a business without providing the normal financials, qualifications or experience a VC proposal would normally contain.

Speaking of which, the question of whether or not this qualifies for Kickstarter came up earlier and based on the description compared to the Kickstarter project guidelines, it's a direct violation of Kickstarter's Guildelines in various areas. It's obvious the reviewer didn't read through the whole 'project' as Kickstarter is meant to finance individual projects or creative works, not start-up businesses. The fact that it's a Staff Pick just adds to the dubious nature of the "review" process. And yes, there are many so-called 'projects' like this on there...but that doesn't make any of them right or a non-violation. Kickstarter even states that they do miss some and they rely on the community to report violations that occur. http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines (see #1, 2.1 & 3.2 ...you have to expand the design & tech to see 2.1)

Now if this had been a request for say, "help me with this project, my goal is to design and create a new style of saddlebag never seen before" then I'd be all for it and probably contribute just to follow the effort and hear back on how it panned out.

Spinner, I am copying everything you put even though I have help with my business plan, and funding down the road, etc. You make some very good points I haven't considered yet. Thanks for posting this, it took a lot of effort and I appreciate it. Cheryl

My pleasure Cheryl, glad it helped someone.

[DoubleC]

You've been there and done it, plus have a financial background. I've been working on my start up since around January I think and I've gotten impatient at times, but I know all the pre work and paperwork will make things smoother when my grant goes through. Was it you who said you thought the number was a little inflated? Because I know my grant's going to be for $1500.00 and that's going to be plenty to get really started good, but of course I do get things myself as I can. It will be nice though to be able to relax just a couple months after the grant before I have to pick up the slack again if things aren't selling as projected. But I can't think that far ahead, LOL, with me it's honestly one foot in front of the other until I can breathe, then I'll look at the big picture :-) But I do appreciate it Chris, this is my weakest area. Cheryl