Beginner Having Problem With A Singer 45K25.

[Edvin]

Hello!

I have just taken a big step forward and got myself a sewing machine, a Singer 45k25.

I looked around a lot before buying but my knowledge of sewing machines are very limited I'm afraid. This machine came from a fellow (professional) leather worker so I thought it would probably be in better shape than one from an outhouse somewhere. I got it for about 400$, not very expensive but still not cheap.

Unfortunately I have trouble getting it to run smoothly. My thread tangles and misses stitches and I can't reverse.

I tried it before I bought it but when I got home and tried sewing, the machine gives me uneven stitches, sometimes no stitches at all or headace in general.

I found a short Owners manual and a service manual online but I haven't figured out how to tweak everything.

First I used the same linen thread I use when I hand stitch but this didn't work at all. Now I use a thinner thread I have a whole bag of, it's linen and the roll says 50/3. Not sure what this means. I got a bunch of needles with the 45k25. There is a really small print that says 200, 180 and 160.

English is not my first language but I hope the pictures are clear and shows my problem. What should I do to get the machine running?

Thankful for all help, this forum is outstanding and one of my main reasons to getting this Singer 45k25 in the first place!

I also made a short video, I hope this help trouble shooting:

http://youtu.be/nR96MOzouWk

[Edvin]

Oh, I forgot to add that this is the kind of things I would like to to on this new machine instead of by hand. Each bag takes a bit too long time now.

I usually use normal waxed linen thread and a pair of butted needles. I do not know what size this would translate to in "sewing machine"-terms.

[mikesmith648]

Tot me it looks like your thread is way to small for the needle size you're using. Try a 207 thread. I think the more experienced sewing professionals will chime in with more soon. Mike

[CustomDoug]

You didn't say which needle you are using in this video and pictures but you said you got the following with the purchase of the machine. A 200 needle would be for #207-#277 poly thread, A 180 needle would be for #138-#207 poly thread, A 160 needle would best be for #138. Three cord linen thread is equivalent to between #138-#207 poly thread SO.... try it again but this time use the needle that says "160" on it. Let us know how that does.

4 cord linen is equivalent to #207-#277 poly (your 200 needle for that). 6 cord linen is like #346 poly thread, just for reference.

BTW, $400 for that machine in it's condition seems like a great deal to me. BTW, I think the linen choice is going to be nice, though most others will probably disagree for reasons related to strength. It should look nice, but it looks like you're using unwaxed thread so you may want to mount a wax pot on the top of the machine.. then have to get some wax and add it to your pot. This will strengthen the seem a lot.... may even be necessary for the linen thread to run in this machine correctly (I don't know for sure). I've been planning to do the same and just haven't gotten around to it yet, though I already have the original wax pot. As for now, try the smallest needle.

Edited September 1, 2012 by CustomDoug

[CustomDoug]

Edvin - also make sure you are installing the needle with the long vertical slit (I forget the name of it... fid?) to the left hand side. The smaller "notch" where the eye of the needle is, should be on the right hand side.

Edited September 2, 2012 by CustomDoug

[Sylvia]

I don't think you have it threaded correctly. Seems to me you have to do a 360 around that tension knob. Do you have your manuals that came with the machine?

[electrathon]

To me it looks like the top tension is too loose and or the bottom is too tight. And you have an oversized needle for the thread.

Just my guess, I am not an expert.

[Trox]

Hi,

First of all, throw away all old needles. Buy new needles the right system, is it 328? It comes in different types of leather cutting points, however if you want to back tack use spear pointed. The leather needles often cut your thread when back tacking (the reverse locking stitch) Old needles are no good, they might look all right and still cause a stitch error. Old thread can also cause frying or be to stiff for the machine to handle. Linen thread should work well, save it for later when you know your machine. Buy some polyester thread Aman Serafil or Coats Gral, (those will work well for your machine) bonded nylon will also work. Sizes metric (like we use in Europe) Tkt 20, 15 and 10 (10 is the thickest) Needles 160, 180, 200 and 230. Those will cover the thread sizes I suggested. When you have no old stuff that can cause a miss stitch, thread your machine right. Look at Toledo (Cowboy) sewing machines home page. You will find a video on threading the Cowboy 4500, (and is the same machine as a Cowboy 2500, GA 5-1 or Ferdco Baby Bull) yours threads the same way.

I see a mistake in your threading, after the last top tension disc. The thread has to go directly from the pin to the take up spring. Not over the take up spring stop as it does now. It looks like you use the wrong needle size for the thread too; the relation has to be right. For a tkt 15 (metric) you can use a 180 needle, Tkt 10 a 200 to 230 needle (size Nm 230 = 2, 3 mm tick). Add some thread tension, you must adjust top and bottom thread tension right. The thread loop has to be in the middle of the material, and your stitches should be tighter. Often old shuttles have bad tension springs and work best with thicker thread. Check your bobbin tension spring, if necessary change it (take it of and look for grooves in the springs backside). Did you remember to thread your thread one and a half time around the last (upper) tension disc? To eliminate other causes for stitching errors, take this above mention steps. If you have manual read it, if not find one for a similar machine or ask for one in the forum. It should be something for this machine; it has been the most used saddler machine for half a century. Here is a Singer 45 clone machine threading video

You can look at manuals for this machine; it is the same as yours. Try this, and search the LW forum base for related topics about thread tension and so on. Remember to hold your thread end when you start sewing, if not you will have a backlash in the shuttle. Good luck with your new machine.Trox

Hello!

I have just taken a big step forward and got myself a sewing machine, a Singer 45k25.

I looked around a lot before buying but my knowledge of sewing machines are very limited I'm afraid. This machine came from a fellow (professional) leather worker so I thought it would probably be in better shape than one from an outhouse somewhere. I got it for about 400$, not very expensive but still not cheap.

Unfortunately I have trouble getting it to run smoothly. My thread tangles and misses stitches and I can't reverse.

I tried it before I bought it but when I got home and tried sewing, the machine gives me uneven stitches, sometimes no stitches at all or headace in general.

I found a short Owners manual and a service manual online but I haven't figured out how to tweak everything.

First I used the same linen thread I use when I hand stitch but this didn't work at all. Now I use a thinner thread I have a whole bag of, it's linen and the roll says 50/3. Not sure what this means. I got a bunch of needles with the 45k25. There is a really small print that says 200, 180 and 160.

English is not my first language but I hope the pictures are clear and shows my problem. What should I do to get the machine running?

Thankful for all help, this forum is outstanding and one of my main reasons to getting this Singer 45k25 in the first place!

I also made a short video, I hope this help trouble shooting:

http://youtu.be/nR96MOzouWk

[jimsaddler]

Easy answer! Practice, Practice, Practice. Then when you think you've practiced enough, do some more practice!!!

Several points I see. your thread should go around the second tension roller a second time to create even pull. you have to perfect your position on turning corners (the needle should have just picked up the thread before making a turn) Stop with the Thread take-up arm at its highest point so the is no slack to pick up. also hold the ends of your threads firmly when making the first few stitches to stop tails getting under the needle plate. Oil the machine regularly.

This looks like it is in very good order and should do the work you want to do easily. The old 45K25 is still one of the best Leather Machines that was ever produced. I still like them for decorative stitching on Patent Leather up to 3/8" thick. The Stand is a Gem, made the way they all should be made! 4 cord or #18 Linen thread is what they were made for so perservere and you will learn that you have a good one. Also please remember that the roller Foot is pressing on the one side so you have to counter by ever so slightly putting pressure on the other side as you feed it through. So go for it and practice, practice and practice, then when you are sure you have it right, have another practice.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

Hi,

First of all, throw away all old needles. Buy new needles the right system, is it 328? It comes in different types of leather cutting points, however if you want to back tack use spear pointed. The leather needles often cut your thread when back tacking (the reverse locking stitch) Old needles are no good, they might look all right and still cause a stitch error. Old thread can also cause frying or be to stiff for the machine to handle. Linen thread should work well, save it for later when you know your machine. Buy some polyester thread Aman Serafil or Coats Gral, (those will work well for your machine) bonded nylon will also work. Sizes metric (like we use in Europe) Tkt 20, 15 and 10 (10 is the thickest) Needles 160, 180, 200 and 230. Those will cover the thread sizes I suggested. When you have no old stuff that can cause a miss stitch, thread your machine right. Look at Toledo (Cowboy) sewing machines home page. You will find a video on threading the Cowboy 4500, (and is the same machine as a Cowboy 2500, GA 5-1 or Ferdco Baby Bull) yours threads the same way.

I see a mistake in your threading, after the last top tension disc. The thread has to go directly from the pin to the take up spring. Not over the take up spring stop as it does now. It looks like you use the wrong needle size for the thread too; the relation has to be right. For a tkt 15 (metric) you can use a 180 needle, Tkt 10 a 200 to 230 needle (size Nm 230 = 2, 3 mm tick). Add some thread tension, you must adjust top and bottom thread tension right. The thread loop has to be in the middle of the material, and your stitches should be tighter. Often old shuttles have bad tension springs and work best with thicker thread. Check your bobbin tension spring, if necessary change it (take it of and look for grooves in the springs backside). Did you remember to thread your thread one and a half time around the last (upper) tension disc? To eliminate other causes for stitching errors, take this above mention steps. If you have manual read it, if not find one for a similar machine or ask for one in the forum. It should be something for this machine; it has been the most used saddler machine for half a century. Here is a Singer 45 clone machine threading video

You can look at manuals for this machine; it is the same as yours. Try this, and search the LW forum base for related topics about thread tension and so on. Remember to hold your thread end when you start sewing, if not you will have a backlash in the shuttle. Good luck with your new machine.Trox

[Edvin]

Hi guys!

I cannot thank you enough for all the pointers. It seems my thread is to small and my needle is to large so I will try and find some thicker thread and order some smaller needles on Ebay.

I would never in a million years figured the thread should be wound twice around the second roll. The owners manual was not very clear on the subject.

Am I right if I think I should use 20-thread with 160, 15 with 180 and 10 with 230? Should I get one thickness and stick with it?

Is pre waxed linen thread OK to use in the machine? It seems to me it would gunk up all the rollers?

Again, thank you so much. Now it's back to the workshop and trying again.