Singer 16-41?

[ElLocoVaquero]

Hello, I am new to this site and this is my first post. I have been hand sewing leather projects for years. Recently I picked up a Singer 16-41 at auction for $15.00. It has a table and everything works good. I was wondering if this machine will sew leather? If so, what thickness? How thick of thread can it handle? Is this what they call a walking foot? Can i get different feet for it? I have never used a machine and Im looking forward to playing with it. Any info you can give me would be much appreciated! I can't find much info on the web for this machine. THANKS! Dave

[CowboyBob]

Yes,it has a walking foot & you should be able to use up to#207 but #138 will work better & it should sew close to 20oz of leather.

We do have some feet & other parts in stock for it,but they will cost more than the machine.

Sounds like you got a great deal there!

[ElLocoVaquero]

Hello, THANKS for the info. What is the name of your shop? Once I get time to mess with it and figure out what I need ill let ya know and see if you have what I need. THANKS! Dave

[Wizcrafts]

Hello, THANKS for the info. What is the name of your shop? Once I get time to mess with it and figure out what I need ill let ya know and see if you have what I need. THANKS! Dave

It was in the banner and his signature:

Bob Kovar

Toledo Industrial Sewing Machine Sales Ltd.

3631 Marine Rd

Toledo,Ohio 43609

1-866-362-7397

[cdthayer]

I just picked up a Singer 16-41 and am cleaning and lubing it to put into a treadle stand.  Before I remove the face plate (four screws), I’d like to hear from someone that knows these machines.  I can’t seem to locate a parts or adjusters manual on this model, so I don’t know how things are set up in there, and I don’t want the surprise of parts falling out or springs zinging off across the room.  Can anyone give me any information on this?

CD in Oklahoma

 

[TinkerTailor]

Here is a chart that lists the 16 models and their features: http://needlebar.org/cm/displayimage.php?pid=65

The 141 looks really close, and may be the same with upgrades somewhere. It is drop feed, I am not sure if yours is too, but alot of other things look to be similar

Here is the parts manual for it, it may help you figure out your machine. http://parts.singerco.com/IPpartCharts/16-137_141.pdf

Singer 141 manual:http://www.opweb.de/en/model.php?id=13355

[cdthayer]

Thanks Tinker.  This one is a 16-41.  I'm not sure if it's the same as a 16-141 or not.

This one has alternating pressers, but the needle and inside foot don't move back with the feed.  The inside foot just holds the work down while the needle is making its trip down and back up.  The outside foot and feed dog are the only things that move to feed the work.  The outside foot seems to have a spring that returns it to the forward position while it's up off of the work.

CD in Oklahoma

[Singermania]

The Singer 16 class is an excellent machine, yours is the kick foot/walking foot version.   Forget the manual, its nice to own but wont tell you much, they are pretty much all the same.   This is a good machine for light leather work such as wallets and handbags.

[cdthayer]

I squirted oil into the face of the machine through all of the openings as best I could.  I use a long hypodermic needle and syringe to do my oiling, so I got some in there a good ways.  If I don’t hear from someone that’s worked with one of these, I’ll just have to tear into it and find out what’s in there.  If it’s full of debris, it could get damaged.

In the mean time, I got it mounted in my “Frankentreadle” that I cobbled together using a 12-inch domestic flywheel and pitman rod.  I cut and spliced the rod to lengthen it.  The table top on this one was used as a spray painting surface by some previous owner, and has white and black overspray on it.  That just adds to the “Franken” part of its nickname.  It looks pretty rough, but it holds up a machine.  And the Singer 16-41 sews!  I had to schounch (is that a word?) the existing needle down a tad to get it to pick up the bobbin thread, and I have some new needles coming, but it puts a pretty good stitch into a piece of 6-7 ounce oak tan leather with the old dull needle.  I’m getting just a hair under 5spi.

I’m trying this machine out using the small flywheel to see if I get an improvement in slow-speed control.  I’m not sure yet if I’ll be giving up punching power by doing it.  The balance wheel has a nice-sized 4-inch pulley on it, so that’s good.  I felt a little slippage of the 1/4 inch round leather belt while I was experimenting, but it’s brand-new belting that I just put on it.  I know it will stretch and I’ll have to shorten it, maybe more than once, as time goes on.  It may be just a bit small for the balance wheel pulley, and a bit large for the domestic flywheel pulley, but I thought it was the best choice.

CD in Oklahoma

 

[Singermania]

What is it you wish to know about the machine?  Either Darren Brosowski or I can probably help.

[cdthayer]

Thanks Singermania.  I’ve been watching for a Singer 16-188 to come along near me, but this one will be just as much fun.  I’m most impressed with the smooth bottoms on the feet.  There wasn’t a mark one on the leather that I test-sewed.

I’m just a little “goosey” about that outer foot that snaps forward after a stitch.  Some type of spring must be popping it forward, and I hope it’s not dependent on the face plate to keep it in position.  I can just see me taking those 4 screws out and having all kinds of parts fall out onto my bench, or flying off into never-never land with no idea of where they came from, or where they went....

CD in Oklahoma

 

[dikman]

CD, I would think it pretty unlikely that it's assembled in such a way that any springs are dependent on the cover to hold them in place. Singer seem to be better at designing things than doing something silly like that,

Just get stuck into it, you know you want to!

[mikesc]

schounch is an absolutely cromulent word.

[cdthayer]

5 minutes ago, dikman said:

Just get stuck into it, you know you want to!

LOL, yea, it won't be the first time that I've torn into something that I didn't know anything about.  But as I get older, I just hate those long hours using a magnet in my shop to find launched parts that I think sounded like it hit that wall and then something else, or maybe it was the ceiling and then the wall, but it didn't seem like it was the right sound for hitting the ceiling, so maybe it hit that other wall and then the toolbox........

CD in Oklahoma

[cdthayer]

11 minutes ago, mikesc said:

schounch is an absolutely cromulent word.

Ok Mike.  I had to go to wiki to look up cromulent.  I hadn't ever run into that word before, but it appears that it means the same thing as "Awright" in Oklahoma?

CD in Oklahoma

[cdthayer]

40 minutes ago, Singermania said:

What is it you wish to know about the machine?  Either Darren Brosowski or I can probably help.

Sorry Singermania, I missed this post while I was yakin....

What I wish to know, is can I take the face plate off without dislodging any parts within?  Is it similar to taking the face plate off of a Singer 31-15 or 96-40?  The four screws make me think that the plate is holding something together in there....

CD in Oklahoma

[mikesc]

Indeed it does.. :) Cromulent is sort of like Awright, but, embiggened somewhat.

Small machine parts that fly off, yep, been there, many a time, gets old faster than I do..the worst are the non ferrous ( magnet proof ) ones, if only one could train arachnids to "go fetch"..meanwhile, I've found that walking around in bare feet in the middle of the night half asleep is a good way to find things that flew over your shoulder and made that "ping" sound before skittering off to deity knows where..

Piece of thin plexiglass* ( perspex) , big enough to cover the hole that will be left when you take off the plate ( pre drill it with holes that correspond to the holes of the plate / thing you are going to remove) , undo the screws just enough to slide it between the plate and the hole a little, then undo the screws nearest to the side that you slid it partly in, it all the way, while keeping it held tight against the hole as a substitute for the plate..slide it in further, slacken off the remaining screws a bit, slide it in some more, slacken the screws off all the way, slide the plate fully over the hole, line up the screw holes in it with the screw holes in the machine, and tighten down the screws, then breath sigh of relief and look through the plexiglass while actioning the machine..

I keep some plexiglass pieces to hand that I made that can replace the slide plates / bobbin case cover plates on sewing machines, when things get weird, lets you see what is going on in there..works for other stuff / machinery too, ..aside/.. used to be able to buy spark plugs which had a transparent part so you could see what colour was the spark and the "bang" when the engine was actually running, great for tuning, when I was younger, probably can't get them nowadays, another potential line subject for Don if he ever rewrites "I used to work for Harvester".

Plexiglass is always called altuglass here, even when it isn't , kind of like any kind of rat in a bun is a "MacDO"...or jeans are 501s here, even when not made by Levi.

MacDo is pronounced makdoh..levi is lehvee..and Singer is said as if the G was "soft" like in mange..so it is pronounced Sanger( rhyme it with ranger )..almost.

Ps "singe" ( again with soft g ) is "monkey" in French..so the way French says Singer , makes it "monkeyer"..which cracks me up as it means that most of us are just monkeying around , not sewing.. :)

Edited October 10, 2016 by mikesc

[Singermania]

HI, you should be able to remove the end cover without drama, if something falls out then something must have come loose anyway and you'll easily see where it came from.   Yes the foot is a jump foot, it doesn't actively feed but help prevent friction, ie it travels back with the material that is fed by the feed dog and then lifts and jumps forward and down to begin again.  You'll see a flatish looking spring against the bar that makes it all happen.  regards STeve

[Evo160K]

CD,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Is there a way to slightly loosen the four screws, put a clear, Ziploc, polybag around that end of the head, finish removing the four screws and then gently let the face plate and whatever? fall into the polybag?

 

[Singermania]

there is nothing to fall out.

[TinkerTailor]

I have never seen a singer that is a springer when you remove the cover plates. Cover plates are there to give access to the mechanicals when you need to adjust them, but keep your fingers out while you are sewing. If you look at machines from the 1800s most of the mechanicals are out in the open. As machines matured, they put covers over as much as they could for safety, cleanliness and appearance, but mostly for safety.

The reason i posted the 141 manual is according to the lists, It has the same recommended usage by singer, and in the pictures of the machines appears they appear very similar. The feed may be different, but this should not effect weather you can take the covers off. Quite a bit of the lube points will be similar as well. They probably use the same bobbin and hook,  Look through the 141 manual while you are staring at your machine, it will look very similar. It may help you understand what is going on with your machine. There are frequently no manuals for these old singers, as well as the fact that there are a bazillion different machines, it is common to not find anyone still alive that has worked on them. In addition, singer would slightly modify a machine and then release it as a new number. Sometimes they made SV models for special customers that became production machines. The SV thing is a great thread on here to open yer eyes to the oddities of singer.

The bottom line is sometimes we have to use wrong but close or a combinations of wrong manuals to find the info we need on old machines.

If you put the machine in a rubbermaid covered with a sheet, the parts cant go far......Wear safety glasses.....lol

Edited October 10, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[cdthayer]

Thanks guys.  After hearing from you, I don't think that removing the face plate will be all that dramatic now.  But, I didn't mind checking with knowledgeable people before proceeding.

CD in Oklahoma

[leecopp]

Hey CD, (extending secret treadle-on handshake)

It looks shockingly similar to the Singer 42-5 that I have on a treadle. Pictures are at https://sites.google.com/site/oldironmachines/home/singer-42-5 

No jumping out bits on mine, but a more complicated movement than I expected.  I have seen notes about modifying a Singer 16 stomping foot for the 42-5.  I note that it has the same odd rounded base plate (and flat hinges?) as my old 16-33 and the 42-5. 

It will probably be a nice tool in your arsenal. It should spin quite a bit easier than the triple-feed 111w155 . 

Happy days .. first taste of Fall in central Florida, Temperatures in the high 70s.

 

Lee

[cdthayer]

Hi Lee.  I haven’t been on Treadle-On since Cindy took over.

Your Singer 42-5 looks like it’s set up for more leather than my Singer 16-41, but the feeds look to be similar if not the same.  I wonder if the 42 was designed due to the number of guys complaining about the small bobbin capacity and maybe the punching power of the 16?  (My 16 takes the same bobbin as a 31-15 (2996).)  You’ve got a very nice-looking machine there.  I’ll be keeping my eye out for one of those to add to my collection.

Since I really like using treadles, I’ve been playing with the 16-41 and enjoying the sound of it.  It’s a distinctive sound with its click when the outer foot snaps forward.  It kind of reminds me of my Singer 29K70 machines, although it’s a different sound. I like the unique sounds these old machines make when they’re stitching.  Singer old iron is just fun!

I bought another possible treadle machine, a Singer 78-3 that I’ve only seen photos of (daughter and son-in-law have it in OKC for me) that is old Singer iron, but will be even less of a leather machine than your 42-5 or even my 16-41.  It’s a needle-feed machine with no feed dogs.  It might do alright for light leather, but I’ll probably use it for wovens.  It’s got a nice husky balance wheel on it that should lend itself well to treadle operation, and I’ll probably let it share the Frankentreadle with the 16 unless I get lucky and find yet another Singer Industrial Treadle Stand.  I’ve bought the last 4 that I’ve seen in my area, but they don’t come up very often.  I have all of mine taken up (Singers 31-15 roller foot, 96-40 darning foot, 95-40 ss/20U zz that share a small cut-out, and the 16-41)  I can’t wait to hear what a 78-3 sounds like when it’s stitching.

Back to your 42-5, I had a really nice White Sit-strate Treadle stand that I was saving for a project, but made the mistake of storing it double-stacked on top of another treadle cabinet.  It got bumped off onto a concrete floor and busted one end into pieces back in 2010.  It’s a shame, since they’re really nice treadle stands.  I haven’t done anything with it, and I’m not sure that I even found all of the pieces or where they’re at.

CD in Oklahoma

 

Edited October 12, 2016 by cdthayer

[Darren Brosowski]

The 42-5 and 16 class use the same top casting but the bottom is entirely different.

The 42 uses the long beak shuttle