Patent Infringement: Shotgun Concho Dog Collar

[JustKate]

LOL....OMG....if Tandy just put the conchos on sale for me, I will just crack up! Awesome! Let's all buy some and make some hatbands, belts, wristcuffs and dog collars!!!! WOOHOO!

Even if it wasn't in response to your communication with them, I'd say it was a nice bit of serendipity. Think I'll have to put in an order for some...

[HellcatLeathers]

Here is his Facebook page. He has 10 photos with pictures of his shotgun shell collars. They seem to be REAL shotgun shell brass casings with the primer removed. They are NOT replica conchos.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Grizzly-Gear/413748342054689

[tnawrot2]

His patent reads "Band having spaced bullet cartridge elements", he is using actual bullet casings cut down, not conchos. As a concho is not a bullet cartridge element, just a piece of pressed metal. His collars look like S--t, the quality of leather and the ridiculous looking bullet cartridge elements.

[Cyberthrasher]

Hmmmmmm, maybe he should spend more time learning how to properly craft leather instead of worrying about filing patents. Maybe if he figured out how to edge something he wouldn't have to worry about losing money from people supposedly copying his design. But yeah, he doesn't have a case in my non-legal opinion. His "band" consists of ACTUAL shotgun shell pieces (which ARE NOT bullet cartridge elements - a shotgun shell and a bullet cartridge are not the same). Your concho was never part of a shotgun shell, only simulated to look like one.

[dirtclod]

His patent reads "Band having spaced bullet cartridge elements", he is using actual bullet casings cut down, not conchos. As a concho is not a bullet cartridge element, just a piece of pressed metal. His collars look like S--t, the quality of leather and the ridiculous looking bullet cartridge elements.

I have to agree the poorly made collars. Guess if anybody wants to make a spike collar they better do it now before he gets another patent. Wonder what he paid the person that he stole the ideal from ?

Noticed on the patent form that the only people he has went after were Esty sellers. I'm betting he thinks he has won the lottery with his BS patent.

Hellcat go buy grizzly gear.net and offer to sell it to him for some big price somebody all ready has grizzlygear.com and call the person that owns grizzlygear because that name is all ready taken and he using their name to do business. I checked that info at whosit.com. Give him some of his own medicine !!!!

Edited May 18, 2013 by dirtclod

[Leela Valley Leather]

Here is his Facebook page. He has 10 photos with pictures of his shotgun shell collars. They seem to be REAL shotgun shell brass casings with the primer removed. They are NOT replica conchos.

https://www.facebook...413748342054689

I can see a few things in those photos...

Live primers on some cartridge bases

Stitching uneven and well... yeah.

Needs to take better photos

Conclusion: If he was my competition in my area I'd be celebrating, it looks like the stuff I was making when I was 13...

[shtoink]

Conclusion: If he was my competition in my area I'd be celebrating, it looks like the stuff I was making when I was 13...

It'd be the type of work to be proud of if you were going for a badge in the Boy Scouts. Reminds me of the stuff the kids made in 4H.

[WinterBear]

Hey, don't be knocking my boys, shtoink. lol. They do better than that if they wanna get me to sign off on their merit badge cards. They all burnish their edges.

[Leela Valley Leather]

Here is a cheeky idea for you all, why not send him (the patent troll) a cease and desist letter for bringing the trade into disrepute with the crappy quality of his work?

[Jaymack]

The way I look at it, He has a patent for a collar with 12 guage shells on it. You sell collars with different conchos on them. Just because it looks like a shotgun shell end, it's still a concho.

For a patent, it is very vague. I don't see how you can have a patent that utilizes someone else's patented product, "the cartridge".

Maybe I should go out and get a patent for a "a piece of leather with a mechanism designed to hold up your pants"! I think I'm going to get rich!!!!

Edited May 20, 2013 by Jaymack

[mikesmith648]

I am going to get a patent for "dead animal skins that have been treated and preserved for functional and decorative use"....................... WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lwm803]

Those collars would hang up on brush, briars and barbed wire like crazy. Only someone who really hates dogs would ever consider using one of those blasted things. I suppose they would be safe enough if the dog were on a leash, but that is about it. I think he should be strung up for trying to sell a device that could be extremely hazardous to dogs, even when used as he intended. Worse design idea I have ever seen for a dog collar. Nothing in his pictures very closely resembles his drawings, I'm not so sure that his actual product would even qualify as "infringing" on his patent.....

[Go2Tex]

Until you get a letter from a lawyer representing the guy, don't even bother to respond.

[TwinOaks]

I think I'm going to apply for a patent on:

"Any process of obtaining generalized patents for things already inexistence and/or use, for the purpose of claiming legal patent status and trying to scam or extort monies from people that don't know any better, or, are afraid of legal action, or, are intimidated by the tone of the conversation, or, that don't have access to the internet and the collective knowledge base therein which could serve to reveal the scam and stop the process of extortion."

Then once it's obtained...grant licenses to all my friends here (after we make bullet concho collars so we can get letters) and go after him for illegally using my patented process.

Actually....would it be possible to patent the process of getting a patent and then sue the Patent Office for unlicensed use?

[camano ridge]

Edited May 27, 2013 by camano ridge

[JustKate]

I think I'm going to apply for a patent on:

"Any process of obtaining generalized patents for things already inexistence and/or use, for the purpose of claiming legal patent status and trying to scam or extort monies from people that don't know any better, or, are afraid of legal action, or, are intimidated by the tone of the conversation, or, that don't have access to the internet and the collective knowledge base therein which could serve to reveal the scam and stop the process of extortion."

Then once it's obtained...grant licenses to all my friends here (after we make bullet concho collars so we can get letters) and go after him for illegally using my patented process.

Actually....would it be possible to patent the process of getting a patent and then sue the Patent Office for unlicensed use?

That's just making my little head spin... ... but considering some of the things I've heard of people getting away with, it just might work, by golly!

[SeekingPerfection]

For anyone that ever gets a letter like this, do not even reply to these guys. Anything you say can and will be held against you. The burden is all on the patent holder. He can ask you to stop and if you don't, he is the one that has to hire an attorney. He is the one that is going to have to shell out court costs. These guys use fear to guilt people into paying them off. The last thing a guy like this wants to do is go pay an attorney thousands of dollars to go out and harass people (why he was the one to send the email). Alot of these small time "patant" holders dont even understand what their patent even covers.

I wouldn't even begin to worry about letter's like this until you get a certified letter in the mail from an attorneys office. The key is not communicating with these guys. Also a good reminder not to "steal" patterns and designs. Modify them and make them your own and you will eliminate 99% of the problems you may face.

[Tex Shooter]

One Point! He probably has already shelled out about $5,000 for the patent. I think that he is only protected against someone using shell casing trim. As with all patents, they don't apply to anybody making one or several for there own use, but just for selling the protected item. I own a couple of patents myself and several tried to get me to sign off on them so they could sell them without dealing with me. I never had to even warn anybody about a infringement of mine. None of mine are no longer valid. Here is one of mine. http://www.google.com/patents/US5490654?pg=PA4&dq=william+herriman&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FQaxUYP_OMmOqwGTkIAg&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA

[LNLeather]

Wow, just found this thread and now I'm up waaaay after my bedtime - I just couldn't quit reading..........

Just look at how many people have read this thread and responded to it....

The Grizzly Gear guy has wasted Sooo Much Time, and probably money, for others...

I wonder - do you suppose this 'tool' has not only accused others but is Actually Making Money off people that didn't know

better, or have as good a resource as LW.net to learn about this sort of scam?

Is there a place to officially report this guy? Grrrrrrrrr I just hate this kind of dishonest behavior

[prc77ro]

Ok, I've been watching this thread for a while and did some research. First off there are definitions on the different types of patents and what they cover on the patent website-www.uspto.gov. Second, US Court of Appeals for The Federal Circut:2006-1562 EGYPTIAN GODDESS INC.(Plaintiff) vs SWISA, INC and DROR SWISA has some very interesting info if you have the time to read it all. One of the main things in it is how the courts come to their findings and this seems to hold true with Design Patent infringement:::

The Gorham Court then set forth the test that has been cited in many subsequent cases: "f, in the eye of an ordinary observer, giving such attention as a purchaser usually gives, two designs are substantially the same, if the resemblance is such as to deceive such an observer, inducing him to purchase one supposing it to be the other, the first one patented is infringed by the other."

I intrepret this as if someone makes a dog collar with shell casings on it and you put it and this schmuck's collar on a table side by side, if it looks or gives the appearence of "his" collar then you have infringed on his design patent. As stated in some older posts, if you use the conchos, do some tooling, maybe add some sheriff star conchos, do the edging and stitching like I know the members of this forum can, then there would be no question in the average joes mind that IT IS NOT this guys collar. And I 100% agree, if he has not started court procedings or you have not received papers from an attourney then I wouldnt even give it a second thought........and I would still sell them because he would have to show in court that yours COULD be mistaken for his.

[cmantz]

The Gorham Court then set forth the test that has been cited in many subsequent cases: "f, in the eye of an ordinary observer, giving such attention as a purchaser usually gives, two designs are substantially the same, if the resemblance is such as to deceive such an observer, inducing him to purchase one supposing it to be the other, the first one patented is infringed by the other."

In my main business (screen printing/embroidery/etc), I so often hear people say "if you change it 20% you are fine", but that is not true. If it looks close enough to be confused as the original, than it is considered infringement..

[Cyberthrasher]

I so often hear people say "if you change it 20% you are fine", but that is not true.

Yeah, I would love to know where that came from!! If I can tell that you ripped me off and just changed it a little bit to make it yours, I'm still coming after you. How would that work with any other kind of theft? Can I steal your car and give it a new paint job and tires, therefore making it "mine". NO, and the same goes for artwork/design. Stealing it is stealing it regardless of how much you change. Come up with your own thoughts.

Now, that little rant had nothing to do with the overall issue here. We all know that this shotgun concho design wasn't stolen.

[cmantz]

From what I understand, it came from the art instructors. They would take their students to the art museums and sit them in front of the originals and tell them to copy it but to change it at least 20% so it couldn't never be confused. Not sure how true that is but that is what I heard.

[JustKate]

I caught a story on NPR last week that covered the subject of patent trolling. I thought you all would find this of interest.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/06/07/188370495/when-patents-attack-part-two

[Tex Shooter]

OK for the other side! When I worked for companies as a designer I was involved in many patents and still do consulting work for a couple of companies. One of the things that happen when a company gets a patent is there is people out there that goes through new patents to copy and they do. Usually a company ignores these copies unless they start hurting there business on the product patented, then they are forced to do something. Usually what is done is a lawyer for the company will send a letter to the one making the copy explaining the companies position. If this don't get action then they may be steps taken to stop the infringement. Legitimate companies use patents to protect legitimate new ideas. Not every idea patented is a good one and some will never make anybody any money. If I was a company today I would be careful about spending the money to patent any leather products as there have been so many products produced. After one pays a patent attorney maybe $5000 there is still the patent fees which are not cheap anymore. If you click on Goggle, then on more, then on even more and scroll down you will find patent search. If you browse through patents you will see what I mean by unproductive patents. -- Tex